175 replies to this topic

[TheCharlatan]

Just did a few matches with my locust.
You do take a lot more damage, so you really need to up your game in lights and be extra careful, but you do a lot more too.
I must admit, i'm having a lot of fun.

You must give due where due is. Well done PGI.

Edited by TheCharlatan, 08 July 2015 - 05:12 AM.

[Night Fury76]

I love it.

Now with true hit reg for us high pinger's we can talk balance, which I think is pretty good.
Played assaults and lights after the patch, love it.

Cheers

[Bishop Steiner]

Lugh, on 08 July 2015 - 05:05 AM, said:

All well and good, but most of the 'Meta' Is laser or ppc vomit + Gauss (which has ammo that doesn't explode) So most will only be mildly inconvenienced.


[utube]https://youtu.be/VzSdPxlGGZc[/utube]

Still dreaming of a day when we can get imperfect convergence back.....but since the reason it left was HSR, and they just seemed to improve HSR, probably not going to happen. And I sure don't want that "all guns not on arms fire straight forward" (or to fixed convergence) crap some people push.

But sadly, it's the perfect convergence and super easy aim, that makes TTK so tough.

Still say (and will still get flamed for it) that a SITUATIONAL CoF is the best of a bunch of bad options. Run at flank, get a CoF. Say starting at 66-75% throttle, and the cone widens the higher the throttle. Jumping? CoF. Severe on up jump, mild after thrust is cut. Riding heatscale? Over say, 50%, start with real mild CoF expanding to moderate at 100% Firing past optimal range? Mild CoF, because it's BEYOND OPTIMAL RANGE.

And yes, they would be stackable.

People hate "random", yet real skill is all about dealing with random variables, outside of your control and making things work. Sorry if you feel your max throttle running over broken terrain, overheating mech should have perfect aim at 2000 meters....but..no.

MWO TTK is all about the underhive level of effort needed to aim in this game.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 July 2015 - 05:14 AM.

[DaZur]

I'd say it's working...

My dual Gauss Ilya has never had such a wonderful run of 4+ matches since I began running this configuration.

That said... When HSR fails it fails miserably. Last night I witnessed at least a dozen shots that were dead-center pass through the target without registering at all.

But I'm not complaining mind you... It's a vast improvement over dropping 200+ damage into a mech to only watch it prance away like you just finished a pillow-fight.

[Hound of War]

Today a locust tried to just stand in front of me (around 150m out) and tag me, he really just stood there! So 2lpl and 5spl later he went "plop", I have seen a locast or 2 survive the same situation before the patch. Also I feel that I cant be as cheeky in my crow, bits are getting blown off faster...HSR good, me like!

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 July 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:

Still dreaming of a day when we can get imperfect convergence back.....

People hate "random", yet real skill is all about dealing with random variables, outside of your control and making things work. Sorry if you feel your max throttle running over broken terrain, overheating mech should have perfect aim at 2000 meters....but..no.

Amen.

That's the thing though... "random" does not necessarily have to mean unable to manage and compensate. While I'm 100% against CoF, I'm all for deviating the recticle commensurate to the amplitude of foot-fall. (Which is is righly what I think you are suggesting)...

Like a skilled marksman / sniper... they learn to control / time their breathing and to adjust for windage and ballistic drop. A good mech pilot would instinctively know how to time their shots to compensate for recticle deviation.

Hell, if I had my way, aim-point should be affected by:
- Amplitude of foot-fall
- Knock-back by incoming missile and ballistic fire
- Ballistic Recoil
- Ablative damage

But then again... I'm a player that expects more than a glorified FPS.

Edited by DaZur, 08 July 2015 - 05:33 AM.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 July 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:

Still dreaming of a day when we can get imperfect convergence back.....but since the reason it left was HSR, and they just seemed to improve HSR, probably not going to happen. And I sure don't want that "all guns not on arms fire straight forward" (or to fixed convergence) crap some people push.

One of the nice things about Elite Dangerous. Fixed weapons have convergence and if the hardpoints are too far apart, you'll completely miss smaller ships close in. It actually plays a factor in ship and weapon selection and is exploited in PvP.

Even the tracking version of weapons don't have nearly the instant pinpoint accuracy that MWO has. They actually wobble around and take time to converge.

Convergence, recoil and knock down would completely change MWO and how it's played.

[Bishop Steiner]

DaZur, on 08 July 2015 - 05:32 AM, said:

Amen.

That's the thing though... "random" does not necessarily have to mean unable to manage and compensate. While I'm 100% against CoF, I'm all for deviating the recticle commensurate to the amplitude of foot-fall. (Which is is righly what I think you are suggesting)...

Like a skilled marksman / sniper... they learn to control / time their breathing and to adjust for windage and ballistic drop. A good mech pilot would instinctively know how to time their shots to compensate for recticle deviation.

Hell, if I had my way, aim-point should be affected by:
- Amplitude of foot-fall
- Knock-back by incoming missile and ballistic fire
- Ballistic Recoil
- Ablative damage

But then again... I'm a player that expects more than a glorified FPS.

yeah, but thing is at range and heat addled? it IS random. That why groupings open up on long range shots, and too many variables to predict if a shot will go left, right, up down from the point of impact of the previous. And heat addled targeting, it would be random, because the targeting IS addled, lol.

Ditto with JJs, where I suppose one could make a predictive algorithm, in theory to know exactly how the vibrations will interact.... but in no way could the actuators and myomers compensate moving multi tons of guns fast enough to matter.

Thus, instead of more than one system, yes, a CoF. Problem most people have with CoF is the myth that it has to be so extreme that you miss things. Mind you, if you are shooting at a Spider, at 2 Klicks, while jumping at near shutdown from heat? I think you shot is going to pretty dang random, in reality. Just saying.

If it was purely movement based issues, then yeah, what you propose would be great. But it's not, and simple solutions that address multiple things are alway better than stacking multiple, more complex fixes.

You can compensate for CoF, in these situations, too. Slow down a bit for that long shot. Don't ride your heat at 90% constantly, don't expect pinpoint accuracy on 50 tons of flying mech, etc.

Would note, I am all for recoil though. It would totally alter a lot of things.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 July 2015 - 05:41 AM.

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 July 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

"Agreeable stuff"

More amen'ing...

[Solahma]

Played for many hours after the patch. Things felt pretty much normal for me. I've never had much issue with hit registration. However, it was very noticeable when shooting at lights that they were taking more damage than before. I was able to accurately focus damage on legs of fire starters. I could easily hit Tfun90's Locust (which stood out very easily as something different).

I got some playtime in the UM-R60L and definitely felt like I was getting hit a lot harder than before. For being such a slow light mech, I didn't think it would be so noticeable tbh, but my side torsos were taking a lot more damage than the ever had. A lot of shots that I would have assumed to do little damage or miss were now doing substantial damage and hitting. I was paying very close attention and putting myself in compromised positions specifically to check the changes. I'll do the same in faster lights as well, but it was undeniable even in the urban mech. I am not naive enough to deny that many light mechs were benefiting from poor HSR, however I was very surprised the urban mech was benefiting so greatly prior to this patch. Perhaps because of its size it was magnifying the problem?

Anyway, people who played stupid and took advantage of the hit registration issues will suffer. People who played smart and proper will see very little change, only a smaller margin of error and more unlucky moments where hit registration might have gotten them out of a bind (even good players get caught time-to-time).

[Hound of War]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 July 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:

Still dreaming of a day when we can get imperfect convergence back.....but since the reason it left was HSR, and they just seemed to improve HSR, probably not going to happen. And I sure don't want that "all guns not on arms fire straight forward" (or to fixed convergence) crap some people push.

But sadly, it's the perfect convergence and super easy aim, that makes TTK so tough.

Still say (and will still get flamed for it) that a SITUATIONAL CoF is the best of a bunch of bad options. Run at flank, get a CoF. Say starting at 66-75% throttle, and the cone widens the higher the throttle. Jumping? CoF. Severe on up jump, mild after thrust is cut. Riding heatscale? Over say, 50%, start with real mild CoF expanding to moderate at 100% Firing past optimal range? Mild CoF, because it's BEYOND OPTIMAL RANGE.

And yes, they would be stackable.

People hate "random", yet real skill is all about dealing with random variables, outside of your control and making things work. Sorry if you feel your max throttle running over broken terrain, overheating mech should have perfect aim at 2000 meters....but..no.

MWO TTK is all about the underhive level of effort needed to aim in this game.

Take a look at vids of an A1Abrams, going full tilt over rough terrain, and tell me what that tube does (a little help: it dont move bro) . Its a thing, also found in BT, called a gyroscope. As of convergence, one might think stuff we can fix today can be fixed in the future. Even in the lore ya find "target locks ",and not only for lrms, and computer assisted aiming even in the older is mechs. MWO is played in the future but you are thinking now, and I am really getting tired of hearing the "bam" about convergence, reguardless of the topic of the post.

[Damien Tokala]

Right where you pointless lights belong.

Deal with it, you bug abusers

[Lugh]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 July 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:

Still dreaming of a day when we can get imperfect convergence back.....but since the reason it left was HSR, and they just seemed to improve HSR, probably not going to happen. And I sure don't want that "all guns not on arms fire straight forward" (or to fixed convergence) crap some people push.

But sadly, it's the perfect convergence and super easy aim, that makes TTK so tough.

Still say (and will still get flamed for it) that a SITUATIONAL CoF is the best of a bunch of bad options. Run at flank, get a CoF. Say starting at 66-75% throttle, and the cone widens the higher the throttle. Jumping? CoF. Severe on up jump, mild after thrust is cut. Riding heatscale? Over say, 50%, start with real mild CoF expanding to moderate at 100% Firing past optimal range? Mild CoF, because it's BEYOND OPTIMAL RANGE.

And yes, they would be stackable.

People hate "random", yet real skill is all about dealing with random variables, outside of your control and making things work. Sorry if you feel your max throttle running over broken terrain, overheating mech should have perfect aim at 2000 meters....but..no.

MWO TTK is all about the underhive level of effort needed to aim in this game.

I never said that. I said that the current meta wouldn't be affected by heat scale changes(from the table top scale) in significant ways.

I'd like the CoF very much as it would match what I've seen in other aim centric games, and the only people it affects badly are the scrubs.

What I do NOT want with the weird random 'sway' dynamic like Heroes and Generals added to rifles with NO WAY AT ALL to control how and where the sway goes.

Randomized cross hair movement is fine as long as I can adjust to compensate.

[FitzSimmons]

At some point, realism has to give way to enjoyment. The game already has a steep enough learning curve and not everyone is a top tier gamer.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Aresye Kerensky, on 07 July 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

Maybe lights should now PLAY LIKE LIGHTS?

That's absurd.

[Darian DelFord]

MoonUnitBeta, on 08 July 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

That's absurd.

Until this game is something other than Arena Death match where you can fire at the enemy within 10 seconds of start of the match you mean?

Not much a light can do other than try to survive before his dorito chip kills him.

[pwnface]

Adiuvo, on 07 July 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

This is what leads me to believe that there never really were any major issues with light hit reg, since anyone demonstrably good never had a problem killing them.

Occasionally shots wouldn't register correctly, a light pilot playing at high ELO can't count on 1/20 miracle misses though. People who can't aim seem to think that 50-80% of shots were missing because of "lag shield".

If the HSR fixes removes the 5% miracle misses, it can ONLY be a good thing.

Edited by pwnface, 08 July 2015 - 10:43 AM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Darian DelFord, on 08 July 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

Until this game is something other than Arena Death match where you can fire at the enemy within 10 seconds of start of the match you mean?

Not much a light can do other than try to survive before his dorito chip kills him.

No. I agree.
This game needs to become much more before we actually can get that illusive "role warfare". Information warfare seems to basically be limited to shared targeting and seeing the mechs weapons loadout. I'm really not sure why they highlighted that as a "pillar". I mean it's necessary, not to mention pretty standard...
I dunno. Now I'm just rambling.

[Damocles]

YeOlWardog, on 08 July 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

Take a look at vids of an A1Abrams, going full tilt over rough terrain, and tell me what that tube does (a little help: it dont move bro) . Its a thing, also found in BT, called a gyroscope. As of convergence, one might think stuff we can fix today can be fixed in the future. Even in the lore ya find "target locks ",and not only for lrms, and computer assisted aiming even in the older is mechs. MWO is played in the future but you are thinking now, and I am really getting tired of hearing the "bam" about convergence, reguardless of the topic of the post.

oh man the old "abrams tank 100% accuracy so your science fiction must be pin point accurate" diatribe.
We're mechwarriors. We bounce around we sweat we black out in cockpits and we are strapped into a 5 point harness that has no gyro.

Reasonable mechanics to affect aiming would be a total improvement imo to this game.

[Karamarka]

The only thing i wish they fix now is reticule not going red when you hit with PPC, known bug i think but really throws you off