175 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

bad arcade kitty, on 07 July 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

afaik vsync on helps mostly when your fps is higher than your fixed screen refresh rate (60 for many/most lcd screens) otherwise it causes fps drops...

Under the old settings i had an FPS range from the Minimum FPS around 40 to 45 and up a Maximum of close to 150 FPS.
Currently with VSync on its ~45 to ~60 FPS and pretty smooth for the moment.

Edited by Thorqemada, 07 July 2015 - 06:08 PM.

[Moldur]

I said this in a previous thread awhile ago, but it's finally happened.

Light pilots are complaining because people can hit their mechs when they aim at them now, as though that's unfair.

[Roadkill]

Adiuvo, on 07 July 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

This is what leads me to believe that there never really were any major issues with light hit reg, since anyone demonstrably good never had a problem killing them.

People at your level automatically correct for things like lag, even when the system is also partially correcting for it. I used to be that good and people in old games used to constantly accuse me of hacking. It wasn't hacking, I just sort of instinctively knew where to aim to compensate for the lag.

It wasn't until I started getting bad that I realized what the problem was. But I've found that it isn't something you can do consciously - it has to be instinctive or you'll just screw up your own aim.

So yeah, there was a problem with hit reg. Really good players just compensated for it without having to think about it. That's why they've always been able to kill Lights while the rest of us have been cursing their lag shields.

[Bishop Steiner]

Darian DelFord, on 07 July 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

With the exception of those players with High Ping he is correct. With my ping I never had a lag shield bro.

cool, so what you are saying, is because you "seem" to not have benefited from, no else is? Because that is what the man is saying, which is blatant horse crap.

And time again, I have seen these "Light Pros" including you and Adiuvo in match, get shot and have it not register...and because it didn't register you probably never even realized it happened.

But of course, PGI just felt like saying they went in and fixed the HSR because it looked good in the patch notes. Just like there was nothing wrong with Spiders before (oops, wait a tick!) or the Raven before that (oh my, there was?!?!?!?).

SMH

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Adiuvo, on 07 July 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

since anyone demonstrably good never had a problem killing them.

Please elaborate.
It sounds like you are trying to say "good" players didn't have hit reg problems, which a function of hardware no skill. Or a function of laodout/tactics, which again plays no part in skill.

I don't want to put words in your mouth or jump to any conclusions, so please explain how "good" pilots did not have hit registration issues before, and how it applies to improved HSR functionality.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Roadkill, on 07 July 2015 - 06:09 PM, said:

People at your level automatically correct for things like lag, even when the system is also partially correcting for it. I used to be that good and people in old games used to constantly accuse me of hacking. It wasn't hacking, I just sort of instinctively knew where to aim to compensate for the lag.

It wasn't until I started getting bad that I realized what the problem was. But I've found that it isn't something you can do consciously - it has to be instinctive or you'll just screw up your own aim.

So yeah, there was a problem with hit reg. Really good players just compensated for it without having to think about it. That's why they've always been able to kill Lights while the rest of us have been cursing their lag shields.

This seems to boil "high skill" down to predictive aiming. However I would personally like to think that "good" players will successfully compensate when everyone is on an equal playing field within the games mechanics. At least I hope I am as good as I thought I was, otherwise it is a hard trip down the Elo staircase.

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 07 July 2015 - 06:15 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 07 July 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

This seems to boil "high skill" down to predictive aiming. However I would personally like to think that "good" players will successfully compensate when everyone is on an equal playing field within the games mechanics. At least I hope I am as good as I thought I was, otherwise it is a hard trip down the Elo staircase.

Hardest part I have found to comp for is inconsistent hit reg. From shifting Pings, etc, apparently. Part of the joy of living 3rd World. But have seen the same mech go from playing Neo to hits, with no apparent effect, to later in the match getting nailed one shot and "POOF", lol.

whatever. I'll let there Pros strut their epeen, and scoff at the problems of mere mortals like myself. As long as the folks who actually matter (you know the ones who are responsible for all the lines of code in the game?) understand, agree and adapt, I could not care less what the 1337 think.

[Weztside]

So far the only difference I've noticed is that my ping has nearly doubled. Other than that there is zero noticeable change for better or worse. It feels exactly the same.

[Roadkill]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 07 July 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

This seems to boil "high skill" down to predictive aiming. However I would personally like to think that "good" players will successfully compensate when everyone is on an equal playing field within the games mechanics. At least I hope I am as good as I thought I was, otherwise it is a hard trip down the Elo staircase.

No, that's not what I meant. It's just one of many weapons that "high skill" players have in their arsenal. "High skill" players will simply adjust, possibly without even realizing it, and certainly without having to put any real effort into it.

My greatest skill was battlefield awareness. In sort of the same way that some people just instinctively know how to solve a Rubic's Cube, I just sort of instinctively knew where people were on the battlefield and where they were going to go next. I still have quite a bit of that skill left, but now that I've lost my ability to lag-shoot instinctively it isn't as useful to me as it used to be.

[UrsusMorologus]

My experience so far is it seems to reward the players who can aim. Lights are still hard to hit, but if you hit them you will get the full Mary from it

[Adiuvo]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2015 - 06:02 PM, said:

Well, apparently the people with the code and telemetry disagree with you. Sorry to say I will rely on that before your epeen.

PGI has said there were HSR improvements. They haven't said that there was a problem with lights in specific, which is the only class you've been harping about for the past year.

Roadkill, on 07 July 2015 - 06:09 PM, said:

People at your level automatically correct for things like lag, even when the system is also partially correcting for it. I used to be that good and people in old games used to constantly accuse me of hacking. It wasn't hacking, I just sort of instinctively knew where to aim to compensate for the lag.

It wasn't until I started getting bad that I realized what the problem was. But I've found that it isn't something you can do consciously - it has to be instinctive or you'll just screw up your own aim.

So yeah, there was a problem with hit reg. Really good players just compensated for it without having to think about it. That's why they've always been able to kill Lights while the rest of us have been cursing their lag shields.

Instinctive correction for lag is possible, but it really isn't done. Any top player's stream doesn't really have them shooting in front or behind a target. What is different is a stable hand, these players automatically correct for their mechs movement while holding a laser burn, or back in the day slightly delaying gauss/ppc shots to account for differing projectile speed. Honestly, this is probably why so many people have 'hit reg' problems while others demonstrably don't do the degree that's claimed. When spectating some rando dude I very rarely see tracking with the mouse, people like to just turn their mech which will obviously cause some problems.

Agent 0 Fortune, on 07 July 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

Please elaborate.
It sounds like you are trying to say "good" players didn't have hit reg problems, which a function of hardware no skill. Or a function of laodout/tactics, which again plays no part in skill.

I don't want to put words in your mouth or jump to any conclusions, so please explain how "good" pilots did not have hit registration issues before, and how it applies to improved HSR functionality.

Not every top player has good hardware, yet they don't constantly complain about hit reg issues. Poor FPS does appear to affect hit reg, but it's not a case of 60fps or bust. So long as you aren't hopping between 20-40 constantly you're probably fine.

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

Hardest part I have found to comp for is inconsistent hit reg. From shifting Pings, etc, apparently. Part of the joy of living 3rd World. But have seen the same mech go from playing Neo to hits, with no apparent effect, to later in the match getting nailed one shot and "POOF", lol.

whatever. I'll let there Pros strut their epeen, and scoff at the problems of mere mortals like myself. As long as the folks who actually matter (you know the ones who are responsible for all the lines of code in the game?) understand, agree and adapt, I could not care less what the 1337 think.

Seriously. This entire time you've been complaining about hit reg, and you have an unstable, likely high to begin with, ping. Bishop, why in the world do you think your problem is a problem with the game? If you have an unstable ping ANY game will have terrible hit registration. Your experience is irrelevant to the mass majority of the population due to that.

Good lord. You love to be as snarky as you can be, yet you fail to communicate something as basic as that.

[Eboli]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 07 July 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

Please elaborate.
It sounds like you are trying to say "good" players didn't have hit reg problems, which a function of hardware no skill. Or a function of laodout/tactics, which again plays no part in skill.

I don't want to put words in your mouth or jump to any conclusions, so please explain how "good" pilots did not have hit registration issues before, and how it applies to improved HSR functionality.

Us Aussie players have had a hard time over the years with HSR because of our 250-330 ping.

Maybe a "good" player ensures they will only shoot at lights when they are in a certain angle to the player. ie if an enemy light is coming or going at you directly you are more likely to get a hit rather than a light running across you screen at high speed.

Only shoot when the best opportunity to hit makes itself available.

I certainly am looking forward to the possible Singapore Server even with these HSR fixes because it will make a difference playing against other players of similar and lower ping. ie - what you see didn't happen 1/3 of a second ago. A bit off topic but certainly ping related.

Cheers!
Eboli

[Bishop Steiner]

Adiuvo, on 07 July 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

PGI has said there were HSR improvements. They haven't said that there was a problem with lights in specific, which is the only class you've been harping about for the past year.

Instinctive correction for lag is possible, but it really isn't done. Any top player's stream doesn't really have them shooting in front or behind a target. What is different is a stable hand, these players automatically correct for their mechs movement while holding a laser burn, or back in the day slightly delaying gauss/ppc shots to account for differing projectile speed. Honestly, this is probably why so many people have 'hit reg' problems while others demonstrably don't do the degree that's claimed. When spectating some rando dude I very rarely see tracking with the mouse, people like to just turn their mech which will obviously cause some problems.

Not every top player has good hardware, yet they don't constantly complain about hit reg issues. Poor FPS does appear to affect hit reg, but it's not a case of 60fps or bust. So long as you aren't hopping between 20-40 constantly you're probably fine.

Seriously. This entire time you've been complaining about hit reg, and you have an unstable, likely high to begin with, ping. Bishop, why in the world do you think your problem is a problem with the game? If you have an unstable ping ANY game will have terrible hit registration. Your experience is irrelevant to the mass majority of the population due to that.

Good lord. You love to be as snarky as you can be, yet you fail to communicate something as basic as that.

Hmmm... odd never stated I always have unstable ping. I did state that what is hardest for to to cmp for is WHEN I have unstable pings. But hey, I guess that no one else does,...... OR WAIT, IS THAT HSR IS SUPPOSED TO COMPENSATE FOR ?.

But hey, details.

[Darian DelFord]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2015 - 06:09 PM, said:

cool, so what you are saying, is because you "seem" to not have benefited from, no else is? Because that is what the man is saying, which is blatant horse crap.

And time again, I have seen these "Light Pros" including you and Adiuvo in match, get shot and have it not register...and because it didn't register you probably never even realized it happened.

But of course, PGI just felt like saying they went in and fixed the HSR because it looked good in the patch notes. Just like there was nothing wrong with Spiders before (oops, wait a tick!) or the Raven before that (oh my, there was?!?!?!?).

SMH

No what I am saying, is Players with HIGH ping have the lag shield, players with low ping did not. I have no problem dying to a mech if they see me in the PUG queue or on the comp scene. Yes there is a lag shield but for the most part the light with high ping enjoyed it far more than those with low.

[Adiuvo]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2015 - 06:32 PM, said:

Hmmm... odd never stated I always have unstable ping. I did state that what is hardest for to to cmp for is WHEN I have unstable pings. But hey, I guess that no one else does,...... OR WAIT, IS THAT HSR IS SUPPOSED TO COMPENSATE FOR ?.

But hey, details.

No, that's not what HSR compensates for. It compensates for stable ping differences between the clients and a server. If your ping constantly fluctuates the server will not redo its calculations. To quote wikipedia:

"The server uses the latency of the player (including any inherent delay due to interpolation; see above) to rewind time by an appropriate amount in order to determine what the shooting client saw at the time the shot was fired."

[Bishop Steiner]

Adiuvo, on 07 July 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

No, that's not what HSR compensates for. It compensates for stable ping differences between the clients and a server. If your ping constantly fluctuates the server will not redo its calculations. To quote wikipedia:

"The server uses the latency of the player (including any inherent delay due to interpolation; see above) to rewind time by an appropriate amount in order to determine what the shooting client saw at the time the shot was fired."

Cool. And since my ping is USUALLY, but not always stable, then USUALLY HSR should compensate.

[Adiuvo]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

Cool. And since my ping is USUALLY, but not always stable, then USUALLY HSR should compensate.

What do you consider stable? A difference of 20 or so even seems to cause problems.

It also seems to stop working as well around 150-200. I believe that PGI said it should work up to 450, but regardless we wouldn't have Aussies or Russians with problems if that was the case.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

If this patch ever finishes I can't wait to test. I don't think I have ever benefited from "lag shield" getting hit was just part of being exposed, but I sincerely hope I can now return the favor against some of those ghost enemies.

[Bishop Steiner]

Adiuvo, on 07 July 2015 - 06:41 PM, said:

What do you consider stable? A difference of 20 or so even seems to cause problems.

It also seems to stop working as well around 150-200. I believe that PGI said it should work up to 450, but regardless we wouldn't have Aussies or Russians with problems if that was the case.

stable is usually a fluctuation of well under 10. Most nights I don't see that even. My avg ping is 90. A really good night, under 70 and stable, and on a high bandwidth night, around 200. It's on those nights that I sometimes see 50-100 fluctuations.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 July 2015 - 06:44 PM.

[Moldur]

750 damage game using only srms, which used to sometimes just no-reg at too close of range or on moving targets.