497 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

Mystere, on 09 July 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

And then there are solo players like myself who insist that we be allowed to fight the "big boys" and have fun doing so.

I fought many of them in PUGs. Weird...many of them weren't so special when they had no 11 meta-wh0res and a chockepoint besides them
One even was angry when I shot him out of his Crow and yelled "You only can win with an overquirked mech" (I drove a Cent-D!!!) because he didn't pay attention and he overheated too much for a decent brawl while I merrily fired the LB-X until I cooled down again (sidenote: yes, I am so un-l33t as to find fun driving such non-meta mechs. Man, I suck!).

Don't get me wrong: some of those guys are really realy good. However, the respect for most is rather ummm "limited" after such experiences. You know, some of those anti-social, unskilled pug whiners can put up a good fight as well../chuckle

Edited by Bush Hopper, 09 July 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[VorpalAnvil]

stoogah, on 08 July 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

No. I can play teamwork (like covering assaults rushed by lights in old river city or shield my wounded teammate, die trying to tank some dmg), most people can do this. But... I don't want to join any groups (I always deny any friendlist invites, I prefer RL friends) and speak or listen to some random people. That's all.

There is no IRL, only AFK...

[Kristov Kerensky]

carnivorouswinds, on 09 July 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

I think this is brilliant. Telling people to uninstall because the community is hot garbage only means you'll be left with a dead game on your hands and hundreds of dollars wasted. Who wins in the end?

I have the opportunity to rid myself of armchair general old farts that think collecting disability and playing a video game qualifies them to lead military campaigns... and you'll be on some other forum posting about the good 'ol days. Enjoy.

And THAT response is exactly why I said you should uninstall the game, you are obviously not a team player of any sort and seem to hold great anger and hatred towards those who are team players.

I AM older, but I work a 50+hr week, head of IT, as well as being on call 24/7. I don't give orders and tell people what to do ingame usually, not my thing, I simply follow the orders of whomever takes command, it's a thing team players do, I know you don't understand this, that's ok.

So please, uninstall and get out of my game, I'm pretty damn sure you won't be missed by anyone, since you've not even been here a month and are obviously quite anti-social.

Kilo 40, on 09 July 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

Oh B.S.

It's not about it not being "easy mode", it's about it being totally lopsided in favor of large groups at the expense of everyone else.

speaking of easy mode....you ever notice how few of these large elite group members you never see in the solo queue, and then when you do, they do just about the same damage/score as everyone else, if not less? it makes you wonder exactly what queue is actually the easy queue.

Kilo 40, on 09 July 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

That's not an even split. That's twice as many VIABLE options for large group players over small group/solo players.




It's about what is fun and what has a sustainable player base. as it stands now CW does not have a sustainable player base. designing a game mode for a fraction of a game, with a small player base to start with, is folly.



It's anything but "fair"




no worries dude.

First off Kilo, get your Elo bracket up and you'll see that the top comp players DO drop solo PUG outside of CW, I see plenty of them myself, all are excellent players. Get that Elo up, you can see it for yourself.

And last time I checked, Solo players have exactly as many options to play as the Group players do. Solo non-CW or solo CW. Groups can do Group non-CW or group CW. So how exactly are the groups getting MORE options there? Do you mean that since if they drop SOLO they get to drop in the Solo ques as well? Because that's rather silly, Groups prefer to play as a group, not solo, hence the whole GROUP thing, ya know? Logic really ain't your strong point it seems.

I see a number of players who keep saying the EXACT same things about CW that we hear about the non-CW Group que, I mean CUT AND PASTE exact. 12 mans ate my baby bs, you know, the very thing that we found out via Russ and the data was total bs? Remember that? Guess not huh?

Some of us do CW as solo PUGs all the time, we do NOT see the bs you guys swear is ALL that CW is. You get a Ghost Drop, you did that, pure and simple, because you picked a planet no enemy is on, and that's totally YOUR own damn fault, since PGI has posted exactly how the CW Que system works and how to read it to find battles instead of Ghost Drops. Too much trouble to read up on it I guess? You don't face 12 man top comp teams every drop, you'll be facing 12 mans maybe 1 in 10 drops, if that many. You won't face top comp 12 mans very often at all outside of Events, just standard units who do CW a lot, which isn't the top comp units. It's not a good place for them, no incentives to play CW, what you do on CW maps doesn't work on non-CW maps, and the tourneys are ALL non-CW maps, so why waste time there?

Again, that lack of logic, really makes the bs stand out like turds in a punch bowl.

CW isn't real popular because for MOST of us, there's NO INCENTIVE TO PLAY IT! Bad rewards for the time invested, no rewards for taking/holding planets, and that's ALL there is in CW, so why do it? I do it because I enjoy the teamwork that happens far more than it does outside of CW as a Solo PUGer, and that's about it. Same with the other SRM who do CW, we get teamwork there, only reason we do it right now.

And if you don't understand why PGI is working on CW, you really don't understand the game at all, what it's based on, and what PGI promised all of us who where there in 2011 we'd get with MWO. And you demand that PGI cater to YOU? You people don't even get what the game is supposed to be about, why should anyone cater to you?

You don't like CW, don't do it, that's fine, many of US WANT CW but we don't play it much because it is NOT what we were promised, and until it is, it's not worth doing much of. But enough of your bs excuses, and that is ALL they are, because the data has already disproven most of them. You don't like the entire team oriented thing, we get it, you have solo non-CW que, all the non-team oriented CoD in robot avatars you could wish for, so enjoy it.

[Lyoto Machida]

RussianWolf, on 08 July 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

More important question. What business sense does it make to Come up with a concept and adamantly stick to that concept when 90% of your customers want something else?

If 90% (your number) don't want to be bothered by teamwork, then why not give them something that isn't teamwork based?

Raise the damn rewards and more people will play...queue times will go down because more people are playing.

I guess PGI only wants 100 people playing CW at any given time or they would have done something by now.

Or maybe...the guy who coded CW XP/Cbill rewards left and nobody knows how to recode the numbers.

[Jon Gotham]

RussianWolf, on 09 July 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

you both are right.

First we had one queue for all. Then they made the 8 man queue and limited the non-8 man to groups of 4 or less. Then the 8 man became 12 when they upped the number.

Then the groups complained about not being able to play in groups of 5-11 and the 12 man was changed to 2-10 + 12 and the other queue remained groups 1-4. Then they finally listened to many of us who said the solos needed to be on their own to limit farming of new players by the smaller groups. So we have what we have now.

Thank you. A sensible person responds, shame my suggestion as to what to do just got ignored eh? Knew it's be a waste of time as people seem to just keep demanding what they want and screw the groupers all the time...
My main concern with the solo q is it teaches you how to play effectively....alone.
When I see players make the jump to coordinated play the result is painfully obvious and partially fuels these whines. It might be good for those who don't care-but it does not do anything for increasing the skill levels of the playerbase or their ability to work alongside others.

This is bad news for a team oriented game. Hint: ALL modes are team modes.

[TLBFestus]

Joseph Mallan, on 09 July 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

Actually without a persistent game where victory means something besides Epeen There is nothing to make someone like me play in CW.

Correct...yet one more missing aspect. CW is "hollow".

TWIAFU, on 09 July 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

Yes, the same ones over and over. 12man Units are evil, all CW is is rolfstomps, CW is filled with horrible people that make fun of you, why can't I solo every mode despite it being designed for something else. Yes, same theme over and over.

You are cherry-picking the points there. You left out;

- no purpose
-no reward of significance
-time consuming
-lop sided/ghost matches.


I'm just saying that as long as you only want your points acknowledged and won't read others equally valid concerns, there's no point to this discussion.

Edited by TLBFestus, 09 July 2015 - 02:41 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

Community warfare is awesome. Check out the guides on how to play, join a unit, design powerful dropdecks, and crush your enemies!

[Suko]

1453 R, on 08 July 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

I don't get to sit down and budget four hours of my time in single big blocks to play a game mode less rewarding, both financially and fun-nancially, than the regular mode. Invasion is a good idea executed horribly, respawns should never have happened, and CW folks screamed at solo players so long and loud to stay the ^$%! out of their game mode that, shockingly enough, they all did just that.

What gets me is why those same CW players keep tromping over here to GD and saying "Y U gaiz no play CW?!" Excuse me Sherman, you told me not to. Loudly, and with much rancor and venom. Enjoy your wasteland. The only Wasteland I'm interested in playing in releases on November 10th. Until then, I'll enjoy my regular queue games with a smile on my face and a cheerful wave for the schmucks in CW who got us this sweet Dropship spawn-in on the best map in the game.

This so much.

It peeves me off SO MUCH when I see a 8+ group in my general queue during CW. They tell me and my 3 lance mates to get a big group or GTFO of CW, so we did and here they show up in the general queue to roll pugs. I don't get it. Make up your minds will ya.

[Nightmare1]

I like CW, but it's too much of a demand on my time. I can earn 800,000 c-bills in CW (45+ minutes with the wait time and long match time), but can easily earn 1,000,000 C-bills in about the same amount of time in the normal queue.

CW is just too time consuming right now and isn't economical for me. When it becomes so, then I'll return to it, personally speaking.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Lyoto Machida, on 09 July 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

Raise the damn rewards and more people will play...queue times will go down because more people are playing.

I guess PGI only wants 100 people playing CW at any given time or they would have done something by now.

Or maybe...the guy who coded CW XP/Cbill rewards left and nobody knows how to recode the numbers.

Dont you just open a basic note pad, edit some numbers, save and rezip it?

[Kain Demos]

Kin3ticX, on 09 July 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

Community warfare is awesome. Check out the guides on how to play, join a unit, design powerful dropdecks, and crush your enemies!

I don't see how anyone can say this with a straight face. CW has been such a massive let down in every single possible way. After the "shiny new thing" factor wore off it was back to the regular queue for me.

Long wait times, ghost drops, bad maps that lead to boring gameplay and have the same objective, rewards that don't reflect time invested. As far as the rewards go even a nice match where you make 1 milliion plus cbills might seem great but that same amount of time could have easily resulted in 5 regular matches that exceed that total.

[MechaBattler]

Kain Demos, on 09 July 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

I don't see how anyone can say this with a straight face. CW has been such a massive let down in every single possible way. After the "shiny new thing" factor wore off it was back to the regular queue for me.

Long wait times, ghost drops, bad maps that lead to boring gameplay and have the same objective, rewards that don't reflect time invested. As far as the rewards go even a nice match where you make 1 milliion plus cbills might seem great but that same amount of time could have easily resulted in 5 regular matches that exceed that total.

It's easy. Some of us are more easily amused. And weren't expecting some crazy complex thing. But I do think it needs to continue to be worked on and expanded. I get the feeling that they're concentrating on polishing the other aspects of the game right now. New Rivercity and eventually Forest Colony. Promising to rework the scaling on the top 5 poorly scaled mechs. And even saying they were going to give balance an overhaul on the PTS. So I hope that they get back to the development of CW and they keep at it.

[CptGier]

Ooh, there is almsot 200 people in CW atm...ofc, on 2 planets...but still...

[Kin3ticX]

Kain Demos, on 09 July 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

I don't see how anyone can say this with a straight face. CW has been such a massive let down in every single possible way. After the "shiny new thing" factor wore off it was back to the regular queue for me.

Long wait times, ghost drops, bad maps that lead to boring gameplay and have the same objective, rewards that don't reflect time invested. As far as the rewards go even a nice match where you make 1 milliion plus cbills might seem great but that same amount of time could have easily resulted in 5 regular matches that exceed that total.

The combat portion of CW is working great. I think expectations were set way too high on what 48 vs 48 would be like. Hell, I bet some players thought they could run stock+ Raven 3Ls around and Narc their way to success. PGI simply cannot take the meatgrinder out of MWO. There is certainly always room for improvement on both combat and the faction map features.

The reason a lot of the top players walked away from CW is the shortage of adequate sparing partners. Some called it PVE mode. It is often true that opponents have no idea what they are doing. In some sense the community sucks and needs to step it up a notch as there is no matchmaker to cushion them. A lot of the time I am just pounding the CW meta into either ignorant or purposely dense players. There is also the occasional awesome game. I do what I can on the forum side of things to create guides so players can emulate what a lot of the more successful players or units are doing. Unfortunately, they cannot locate that information or they reject it.

I lack the patience to actually go talk to players or units directly. Either they already hate Mercstar's guts or refuse to emulate or approximate what has been working for established units.

Mercstar also adds a lot of its own fun mega endgame nerd roleplay into CW by looking for cbill contracts and such.

PGI is probably scratching their heads wondering why so many waited loudly 3 years for Community Warfare only to give up early or straight up refuse to form legit units.

TLDR, if you don't like CW now you probably will never like it even with the phase 3 features completed.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 09 July 2015 - 05:32 PM.

[R Razor]

Kin3ticX, on 09 July 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

TLDR, if you don't like CW now you probably will never like it even with the phase 3 features completed.

And that is of course fine, but if PGI wants to continue making money and have a successful game then it's in their best interest to make a game that is fun for the MAJORITY and not the vocal minority.

[Kain Demos]

Kin3ticX, on 09 July 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

A lot of the time I am just pounding the CW meta into either ignorant or purposely dense players.

I gave up on trying to help randoms out with builds/advice AGES ago, you must be a glutton for punishment. The average PUG is so terrible but so convinced their secret squirrel build is so much better than the established ones that talking to them is just a recipe for high blood pressure.

EDIT:

As I typed this I was in the queue for a match. 26 minute total wait for a ghost drop.

Edited by Kain Demos, 09 July 2015 - 05:32 PM.

[Triordinant]

Mystere, on 08 July 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

I only drop solo, always have, and have fun doing so. As such, I am sure players can PUG in CW and have fun as well.

Actually it's just you and a handful of others who PUG in CW and have fun doing it.

[Gremlich Johns]

The problem with CW is the FTP model. If PGI didn't want to have a steady revenue stream from powerups, err, mopdules, etc to bring mechs up to their canon levels after hamstringing many of them, they could have gone the way of MW4 and let other groups establish their leagues around a PGI developed multiplayer game, like NBT and Mektek. It's like they are taking the Derek Smart model of poorly copying games and making unmemorable products.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 09 July 2015 - 05:56 PM.

[HammerSwarm]

Preface: I like this game. I like big stompy mechs and tactical fps gameplay without respawns. I like the game modes currently in the pug que because they offer different flavors for my enjoyment.

I don't find CW to be fun. I've never played in a match that was fun, each time even when the game tells me defenders or attackers are needed I still end up waiting almost a standard queue's worth of time to play. The game modes are all asymmetrical, which wouldn't be a problem if the games were more balanced. The games are often a prolonged stomp where wave after wave of my team drop into a certain defeat because there's no hail mary or tactical win condition that can be satisfied by out working the opponents.

The maps in the standard queue are also familiar because I've played hundreds of matches on them and when I drop into CW the maps are unfamiliar I could learn them if cw wasn't unfun and I liked it enough to play it but it's still a barrier to my playing it because I don't know the maps.

How would I fix this?

First, limit group size in the CW queue. This is controversial because the bulk of people in CW are large groups, but why is that? because that's how you win. Want me a guy who does 80% of my drops solo? Stop putting me against 12 man groups. This might cause a question about a separate 12 man queue, and I believe Russ said on his twitter there wasn't enough population for this.

Second, add symmetrical game modes to CW. You could add new modes or clone existing modes, and you could vary the drop decks from the standard 4 mechs 240 ton IS or 220 Clan drop decks. Add something for people who like conquest, or no turret assault.

Third, add a mercy rule and compensate teams who lose accordingly. Set mercy at the point where the longest comeback has occurred. Sometimes you get rolled it's not fun and PGI should work to limit it, but when you do it sucks to lose your time the match and not have much to show for it other than that sinking feeling. If you are down 20 to 4 and the match is over then it should end and you should be given a proper reward, that rewards you for the pain the game caused you, not any of your own efforts.

Fourth, Work out CW maps so that they are in the standard que for skirmish, or assault, or conquest. Whatever game modes could work on the map should work on that map. When symmetrical game modes are added to CW you'll get the benefit of all of the standard maps.

You could fix CW by making it more like the game modes that people in the pub queue enjoy instead of making a totally different experience and telling people to like it.

[Kain Demos]

Triordinant, on 09 July 2015 - 05:44 PM, said:

Actually it's just you and a handful of others who PUG in CW and have fun doing it.

I always preferred pugging in CW even when I was in a unit. PUG vs PUG matches let you pad your stats an enormous amount and are so unpredictable compared to 12v12s.