497 replies to this topic

[MoonUnitBeta]

CW is in beta...
I don't expect the entire population to be playing a beta when there's a perfectly function game right next to it.

[Throat Punch]

Mystere, on 08 July 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

Well, a lot of bad things being said about CW are just plain exaggerations, or something someone heard from someone else who also heard it from someone else.

People talk as if they encounter 12-mans and only 12-mans every single time. And yet, I when I go play CW it's not common for me to go against a 8/12-man unit. I usually see them more only during events, and it's still no more than 30% of my games.

Bogeymen, they're apparently all over and are definitely out to get me. But I guess what I don't see won't hurt me.

Man the 12 man premades are everywhere. EVERYWHERE. A 12 man premade beat me up and stole my lunch money just this very day. Last week a 12 man premade sold some drugs to my neighbor and I found out a 12 man premade violated my grandma's virtue! Gotta watch out for them 12 man premades man.

Edited by Mors Draco, 08 July 2015 - 12:10 PM.

[Johnny Z]

I enjoy playing on the Galaxy map 9 matches out of 10. I only play when its active, usually in the evenings and get matches very quickly and have challenging matches every time. I also do well 9 matches out of 10.

Contrary to the many replies saying they dont want to play against 12 mans, replies made by players from 12 man teams by the way, I enjoy the challenge.

Greifing in the form of join or get out is a small factor only, even if it has been mentioned a few times in this topic alone.

Why is it not played often? Among other reasons I would say its simply in beta.

Edited by Johnny Z, 08 July 2015 - 12:12 PM.

[RussianWolf]

Mystere, on 08 July 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

CW was "the game" that was sold to the founders, without whom MWO would not even exist today. I think I'm going to let people dwell on that thought for a minute or two.

...
...
... 1 minute
...
...
... 2 minutes


Now, since it also looks like many people would like to throw all of that away, how do you propose to improve teamwork for PUG players in a team-oriented game, and by "PUG players" I mean players who have an "I don't give a ******* **** about teamwork" attitude, which seems to be 90%+ of the player base.

I'm going to give you even more time to dwell on that thought ...

More important question. What business sense does it make to Come up with a concept and adamantly stick to that concept when 90% of your customers want something else?

If 90% (your number) don't want to be bothered by teamwork, then why not give them something that isn't teamwork based?

[Euphoric1RW]

This topic got three new pages in like two hours, OMG, hot topic!

[stoogah]

Mystere, on 08 July 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

Now, since it also looks like many people would like to throw all of that away, how do you propose to improve teamwork for PUG players in a team-oriented game, and by "PUG players" I mean players who have an "I don't give a ******* **** about teamwork" attitude, which seems to be 90%+ of the player base.

I'm going to give you even more time to dwell on that thought ...

No. I can play teamwork (like covering assaults rushed by lights in old river city or shield my wounded teammate, die trying to tank some dmg), most people can do this. But... I don't want to join any groups (I always deny any friendlist invites, I prefer RL friends) and speak or listen to some random people. That's all.

[kapusta11]

Because rewards in CW are ****.

[Kain Demos]

Merroc Sandybanks of Frogmorton, on 08 July 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

This topic got three new pages in like two hours, OMG, hot topic!

If only people jumped into the CW queue as quickly.

[Navy Sixes]

Mystere, on 08 July 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

Well, a lot of bad things being said about CW are just plain exaggerations, or something someone heard from someone else who also heard it from someone else.

Word of mouth is the most powerful form of advertising there is. One solo decides to try CW, drops in for a day and experiences long (compared to solo queue) waits, a few ghost drops, and then gets rolled/spawncamped by a few organized teams. They come here to the forums and share their experience. The rest of us solo trash read it and think, "Meh, I'm having fun in the PUGs. CW sounds like more hassle than its worth."

Maybe their initial experience was an anomaly and if they had spent another 2-3 days solo dropping in CW, they'd have a better opinion of it. But first impressions matter, and again word of mouth matters (especially in a relatively small community like this). If you want solos to give CW good word of mouth, you're going to have to make a CW experience that appeals to them.

Not telling them to "get out" and not telling them their real concerns are "boogeymen" would be good places to start.

[Mystere]

RussianWolf, on 08 July 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

More important question. What business sense does it make to Come up with a concept and adamantly stick to that concept when 90% of your customers want something else?

If 90% (your number) don't want to be bothered by teamwork, then why not give them something that isn't teamwork based?

In which case, I'd rather have this game die a horrible horrible death. There, I said it.

stoogah, on 08 July 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

No. I can play teamwork (like covering assaults rushed by lights in old river city or shield my wounded teammate, die trying to tank some dmg), most people can do this. But... I don't want to join any groups (I always deny any friendlist invites, I prefer RL friends) and speak or listen to some random people. That's all.

Then you are not whom I speak of.

[TWIAFU]

Merroc Sandybanks of Frogmorton, on 08 July 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

This topic got three new pages in like two hours, OMG, hot topic!

Yea, it is HILARIOUS to read all these excuses coming from people that refuse to partake in a core game mechanic.

I'vs seen some real BS before, people in this thread are some prime examples of what's wrong with CW.

Most should go back to complaining that people are base capping in Assault since many are the same.

[Mawai]

Kyp Durron, on 08 July 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Seriously, why are the pug queues full and the CW a wasteland?

Maybe because the core gameplay of MWO is PUG and group instant action and the entire CW is a niche product appealing mostly to the lore based BattleTech folk in the community?

Maybe because CW matches take a lot longer to play ... as well as to queue for? If you only have 20 minutes ... a CW match is out of the question.

Maybe because of the design of CW games revolves around shooting a generator with limited approaches and limited ways to engage opponents?

Maybe because the scarcity of players results in poor match making with 12 man teams facing 12 random individuals or small groups? Communication and coordination are worth far more than tonnage in most situations in MWO.

---------------

Anyway ... here is my "Theory of MWO Player Motivation"

There are at least four basic types of players

1) Folks who like the lore ... like their fights to have some significance beyond the match itself for more than just themselves personally. These folks like CW, like an external plotline, like the idea of overall logistics, repair and rearm and other game elements that add to "realism". It makes the game a bit more immersive and adds a reason to play the next match.

This group likes CW and would like more content like it.

2) Folks who like competition ... these people like to build the best loadouts they can ... they like to hone their aiming skills, jumping skills, moving skills ... in most cases teamwork skills as well ... all with the goal of efficiently beating the other team.

This group likes leaderboards, wants things like monthly rankings, best mech pilot lists, competitive leagues. They would generally like an implementation of Solaris type arena battles.

3) Folks who like to level up mechs. Gain skill in each mech, customize their skills in each mech to perform specific roles well. These folks would like having 3 variants of each mech that can do different things well. I suspect some of these folks are completionists who like to own every mech. This may make this group a particularly important one since it may have a lot of whales.

This group would like a revised an updated XP system so that each mech could have customized benefits ... so that having 3 variants has greater meaning and so that YOUR variant of a mech might play differently from someone else's because you chose to unlock different XP benefits than the other player. Perhaps this group has a lot of min/maxers? In any case, this group has been pretty well ignored so far ... but I suspect that this group may account for a lot of the folks in the solo PUG queues.

4) The PVE folks ... there are a lot of folks who played all the previous MW titles and what they want most are single player campaigns (also possibly small group coop). MWO is as good as it gets at the moment for them even if it has no single player content.

These folks would buy single player mission packs IF they were done well and IF the earnings from the mission packs could be used in regular MWO matches.


So tl;dr ...

There are at least four types of MWO players ... some folks overlap multiple categories.
- CW
- Competitive
- XP/Completionist
- PVE

Most of PGIs work in the past year has been aimed toward one of these groups .. CW ... it is no surprise at all that only a fraction of the community plays it .. I've been saying this in posts since closed beta

Edited by Mawai, 08 July 2015 - 12:36 PM.

[RussianWolf]

Mystere, on 08 July 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

In which case, I'd rather have this game die a horrible horrible death. There, I said it.

Not to worry, They've already lost me as a PAYING customer. Unless I see some actual improvement to gameplay soon (map updates are nice, but don't count), then they may not see me as a PLAYING customer either.

And I've been a long time supporter of this game.

[TWIAFU]

Tycho von Gagern, on 08 July 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

If you want solos to give CW good word of mouth, you're going to have to make a CW experience that appeals to them.

Not telling them to "get out" and not telling them their real concerns are "boogeymen" would be good places to start.

Ok, how about we start by telling solo's the TRUTH?

Think that would help?

Tell them CW is primarily designed for Group and Unit play. Maybe a big popup when they hit Faction? Big red letters in bold font "Faction Warfare is for Group and Unit Play. Solo play is very difficult" with a nice confirmation box.

Then they would know that this area of the game might not be the best place for them but the actual Solo queue, until they are ready.

[XX Sulla XX]

Its a very simple reason the game play for CW is just not fun. Maybe the new 4vs4 might be. But right now the game design for CW is just not very good. Its to repetitive and restrictive.

[Jack Corban]

The really sad thing is that Community Warfare could have been great if...

...they had bothered to make maps that aren't tunnel maps straight out of Call of Duty.
...they had bothered putting in multiple objectives that split forces on both sides at the same time.
...they had bothered to implement Logistics. (Traveltime,unit composition etc.)
...they had bothered to not rush **** out of the door and had instead showed progress reports on development.
...they had bothered at all.

But Community Warfare has...

...tunnel maps straight out of Call of Duty with no tactics involved apart from what mech will we drop 12 times first round.
...one objective only wich results in a huge brawl of 24 Mechs with the winner of said brawl dominating the match from then on.
...no logistics involed wich makes this mode nothing more then a gloryfied Lobby for one Gamemode.
...been rushed out the door to please the unnerving whining of hundreds if not thousands of entitled little ******.

So enjoy CW.
In the meantime i'm playing Solo PUG or group with my brother Jake. Assault, Conquest and Skirmish are far from perfect but at least i have freedom of movement and i can lie to myselfe and tell me that this is Solaris Team Deathmatch so i get less sad as if i was playing Community Shitfare.

Edited by Jack Corban, 08 July 2015 - 12:51 PM.

[AlphaToaster]

Louis Brofist, on 08 July 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

People will never cooperate in an mmo unless they have huge incentives to do so or are flat out punished for refusing to do so.

I believe players who do not prepare themselves for CW are punished now. Problem is somewhere along the way these same players decided it was more efficient to come to the forum than to prepare themselves.

Some players want the punishment removed entirely, and others understand it's necessary to drive players toward working together.

The players who understand the necessity for the punishment, also understand that what the complainers are asking for won't fix their problem.

Edited by AlphaToaster, 08 July 2015 - 12:56 PM.

[Eider]

Hardcore mode for the hardcore only, get out filthy casuals! hows that working out for it? Oh right..

Maybe if people could get their heads out their ass and realize you need a casual base also it woulnt be so unpopular. As for the whole 'its in beta' junk. Uhhh then why are so many pro teams in it? But now they are complaining no one wants to play.. meh.

[CtrlAltWheee]

I kind of want pug matches on the regular maps to be folded into CW. With queue and all.

[Navid A1]

Don't know about anyone else, but i can get more cbills playing solo queue multiple times compared to a single CW match in the same 30+ minutes time window.

Even worse... if you do get a ghost drop. CW punishes you for playing CW by not giving you any scores. because you... wanted to populate CW...???!?!?!

Also, i think it would have been better if people could do something... anything... when they are waiting for 7 minutes in the lobby just for a single match.

And i'm not talking about the actual gameplay experience.