Jump to content

Time For Rebalance

Balance Gameplay Weapons

159 replies to this topic

#21 BigBenn

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary
  • Mercenary
  • 571 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, SD

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:08 AM

On any given map, any given mech can defeat any other mech. Nothing is more demeaning than having your heavy or assault mech's backside handed to it by a 30 ton squirrel. Stop the panic, stop the madness. Understand the "why", adapt, and play.

Each side, be it Clan or IS, has its pros and cons. Take a Hunchback armed with ballistics vs a Nova on Terra Therma, pilots being equal-ish, and I'll put money on the Hunchback. Now put those mechs on a cold map and the odds turn rather quickly.

Ultimately, I think PGI has done a good job balancing. With the recent changes to Clan ballsitic weapons and all the PPC's, coupled with the laser adjustments to the Timberwolf and Storm Crow, we're seeing a much more diverse weapons set on the battlefields. That is good. Will the balance ever be perfect? Nope, not at all and besides that is an opinion and the only opinion that matters is PGI's.

So, I suggest everyone take a snapshot or BT lore, compare to how that would play out if it were exactly followed in MWO, and then measure the need for game play balance with what PGI has done. I think you'll find PGI has done better than most give them credit for. ;)

#22 Necromantion

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 1,193 posts
  • LocationBC, Canada

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:08 AM

Oh boy this should be fun, another player crying because they dont know what they are talking about and cannot see the implication of their suggestions!

Out of curiosity how long have you been playing MWO?

View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

1) If you do not think clan mechs are overpowered, you sir/mam are completely oblivious and should seek serious medical attention.


You clearly havent played clans to any great degree if at all. I am going to guess that your experiences are based on you pug dropping in CW against 12 mans on the other faction. Clan mechs have strengths and weaknesses just like any IS chassis. Also hyper-quirked IS mechs not just limited to the Tbolt and Stalker are able to stand toe to toe or even best clan chassis without an issue... if youre actually competent as a pilot that is. Myself and the majority of players in our unit pull the same numbers in our IS mechs and roll over most other teams with the same ease.



View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

2) BT/Mech lore cannot dictate mech competitiveness in a game where a primary mode has two sides fighting against one another with everything else still being equal. If we want to go to lore land, then how about the IS get more mechs to drop with then? The lore excuse is a convenient argument for clanners that are in power to stay there.


Lore is a problem yes BUT if you want to forsake lore totally for balance they may as well just have 1 mech and everyone have to use the same loadouts. It would be boring and homogeneous and pointless. Differences in chassis ergonomics and loadouts make this game what it is, knowing enemy targets strengths and weaknesses is what results in actual tactics in this game for any (wait for it) competent player. See a dragon 1n? shoot off its arm, see a wolverine K shoot off its arm, see a centurion? Its legs are weakest usually. See a banshee with a bloated weapons loadout? Its running an XL. Success in this game comes down to using your brains. Notice the majority of competent players dont come and whine on the forums, why? Because they dont struggle with the game as either faction.


View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

3) This is a call for balance. Why? Because playing a game that isn't equal isn't fun. I don't care if that ruins your clanner lore dream fantasy. Hell, it doesn't even have to be exactly equal, I like a challenge, but things are too far apart. The current situation is analogous to an MLB team on steroids vs. an asthmatic high school team. Its not fun to play.


Stop dropping pug drops in CW and get on TS server with competent players. If youre losing with an organized group then either youre not organized enough, your communication and strategy sucks or you got outplayed and need to work on things.


View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

4) PGI has the right to write their own page in mech lore and improve upon the foundation of the game and should do so. Anyone who says otherwise is, in my opinion, a pretentious ass.


They could and I am all for bringing in new weapons and unique chassis as the humanoid mechs are getting especially boring on IS but sadly they are sticking to this and its crying over split milk right now. They have said they would consider moving forward faster in the future if they ran out of content.

View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Whatever PGI just did to clan ballistics was a mistake. I don't care if they sucked before for you, they were supposed to. Every ******* weapon system clans get to have is half the tonnage of IS, if not exactly half, it is close to it or has some other benefit. With that, there was the notion that something must suck to balance it out, extra heat, longer duration, etc... It seems that this is no longer the case for ballistics. Fix it, period.


1) No, they reduced the amount of rounds shot by 1 for each AC. Thus making the damage spread on moving targets slightly less. The only ones that are near half are missiles and if you think missiles are a huge factor in this game you are probably playing in the lowest possible ELO brackets. Clan weapons do more spread damage (ACs and LRMs), Clan weapons run significantly hotter making them less suited to brawling, they dont have pinpoint damage that their IS counterparts do (AC's other than the C-AC2 now)

View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Fix the damned stormcrow already, I'm tired of this medium mech being such a pain in the ass. The thing is unhittable half the time due to ****** hitboxes and not recognizing damage. I'm not sure how many times people need to say this about this mech before it gets fixed. If you can't fix it soon, take it out of the game, or at least CW.


If you have been playing CW you would have noticed that maybe until yesterdays slight un-nerfing of energy builds the only time you saw a stormcrow was if it was a Streak boat and in most CW matches you would see maybe 1-2 brought by a team. I know in the community event in all of the drops I did our team had 1-2 at MOST if any in any drop ever. Also if you have ever played one you would know that its CT is extremely vulnerable to damage especially when peeking over things.

View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

While you're working on the stormcrow, have a go over of the ice ferret. GCGB actually uses a tactic of bringing a whole ferret wave because they are broken as well.


Ok this is where I started laughing at your post again.... REALLY? THE WALKING REFRIGERATOR? The worst Clan mech by far? You are seriously making me think you are not average at this game but downright awful and taking a forum tantrum.


View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

If Inner Sphere weaponry is to remain heavier, damage should be increased. No quirking, no cheeky antics, just give us more damage so that we can stay on par with clan mechs.


No. There is enough of a variety of hyperquirked IS mechs now that you can have a very variable and successful IS drop deck when optimizing builds around quirks. Clan weapons run hotter than IS weapons and the ones that are lighter do more spread damage than their IS counterparts which is not conducive to killing your target.


View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

I also want to be able to blow one side torso with an XL and still live, OR have clanners blow up with from only one torso.


See heres this whole post summed up in a few words "I WANT". Let me be blunt here, PGI doesnt care what you want. Being part of the lowest common denominator in a game and struggling with the game because you cannot adapt and out play your foes like other competent players can does not give you suddenly the right to demand things and screw over the games current albeit meh dynamics.

View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

I want IS gauss ammo to weigh less than clans'. Increase it to 15-20 rounds per ton, that would make more IS bring gauss and even the field against the clans who get several tons extra to put in just because their guns weigh less.


Hahahaha.... NO.


View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Give us more arm hardpoints that can actually fit gauss, because anything in the chest is a death sentence because you have to run an XL engine in order for the mech to be weight viable.


Not true at all, many good mechs can arm mount it and a lot of heavier mechs can run standard engines and run gauss and a few other weapons. Maybe if you didnt attempt to use every weapon hardpoint you would realize this.

View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

The raven should also go 192 kph again. IS needs better lights, you took away our light rush ability in CW anyway. And by better, yes, dare I say it, better than clan mechs.


AHAHAHAHAHAHA IS Needs better lights? You have the only good lights currently. What have you been drinking? Yeah they took the light rush away because people like yourself used to whine when they sat in queue for 15 minutes to have the game over in 2.5 minutes.

View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

There should also be modules for other various things on weapons and mechs. Range and cooldown are a good start, but how about other things like velocity and heat generation?


Hey something semi constructive, thumbs up.

View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

IS narc should cancel ECM in a significant radius ~200m.


Lol sure... I am starting to guess that you bring LRM's a good portion of the time and expect to be successful? Let me tell you right now, without multiple tags/narcs LRMs are not viable in most CW matches regardless of the faction yorue on.

View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

I'd also enjoy a projectile explosive that uses the narc mechanic in that it sticks to mechs, but then explodes after a duration.


If its in Btech maybe, if not it wont ever happen.

View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

All consumables should be able to be taken twice if desired.


A big F-No. Clearly you didnt play this game when it was ArtyWarrior Online when everyone was doing this and half the damage done to you in matches would be arty/air. If you struggle to do damage and need arty/air to compensate youre just making me think that all my other assumptions are spot on regarding your play and competency. Though your whining about getting destroyed every few matches if this did happen would be funny.


View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

This is all heresy necessary, but it must be done in order for this game to grow in popularity and viability for new players. I'm also sure other people will have great ideas to contribute as well. Please join the discussion.



Lastly no, all of your WANTS other than two of them are clearly as a result of bias in your own little MWO world where you struggle to be competitive due to lack of organization, lack of builds that are good for map and group playstyle and even just plain lack of skill.

Edited by Necromantion, 09 July 2015 - 07:12 AM.


#23 Bulletsponge0

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Vicious
  • The Vicious
  • 2,950 posts

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:08 AM

Love these threads.

"IS is underpowered (if you ignore the over whirled variants)!"
"Clans are OP (if you only count the TBR and SCR)!"

Anyone that makes blanket statements about one side being OP or UP has serious tunnel vision and is ignoring many many mechs on both side.

My bet is the OP simply got killed by a clanner and is raging about it.

#24 Johnny Z

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • 9,942 posts
  • LocationDueling on Solaris

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:12 AM

This recent change to the CUAC's wasnt a straight improvement. Last time I engaged an Omni mech with a CAUC I could actually see something out the cockpit window.... The claims that CUAC's are not op are false. They have many benefits and one of their strongest benefits was blinding their opposition completely and continually.

Omni mech are still OP please nerf.

Edited by Johnny Z, 09 July 2015 - 07:13 AM.


#25 Necromantion

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 1,193 posts
  • LocationBC, Canada

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:14 AM

View PostBulletsponge0, on 09 July 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

Love these threads.

"IS is underpowered (if you ignore the over whirled variants)!"
"Clans are OP (if you only count the TBR and SCR)!"

Anyone that makes blanket statements about one side being OP or UP has serious tunnel vision and is ignoring many many mechs on both side.

My bet is the OP simply got killed by a clanner and is raging about it.


Yep, when nobody has been using the SCR other than for streaks and the same with the TBR other than in UAC/Laser and Srm brawl configurations for the last few weeks up until the un-nerfing yesterday.

View PostJohnny Z, on 09 July 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

This recent change to the CUAC's wasnt a straight improvement. Last time I engaged an Omni mech with a CAUC I could actually see something out the cockpit window.... The claims that CUAC's are not op are false. They have many benefits and one of their strongest benefits was blinding their opposition completely and continually.

Omni mech are still OP please nerf.


Between yourself, Dafrog or Bishop Steiner I am not sure who the biggest crybaby-IS Fanboy is.

#26 Lostdragon

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,713 posts
  • LocationAlabama

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:14 AM

View PostWronka, on 09 July 2015 - 06:55 AM, said:

The thread didn't start off very well but the guy is mostly right. PGI thinks he's right. That's why you have clans with negative quirks and IS mechs with up to 50% boosts. Clan nut swingers will always swoop in and claim IS mechs are OP, to protect their powerful mechs, but the reality is IS mechs as a whole are rather lacking when you take out the few high quirked ones that are actually on par with nerfed clans today. There would not be a complete re-balance coming if there wasn't a problem with IS mechs as a whole, no matter if you think they are over or under powered.


PGI obviously doesn't think Clans are too OP or they would not have buffed Clan ACs/UACs two patches in a row. What they seem to be trying to do is shift the meta away from laser based builds, hence the negative quirks (which also got rolled back some in Tuesday's patch) on the best Clan laser mechs.

There is no doubt the TBR and SCR are top mechs. But if Clan tech overall is OP why aren't all Clan mechs Tier 1 mechs on metamechs.com? Because Clans tech is not OP in and of itself. The TBR and SCR are the perfect storm of upgrades (Endo, Ferro) that allow a lot of tonnage for weapons, good hitboxes, big engines, and good hardpoints. Other Clan mechs are not so lucky, especially the poor lights. Having locked equipment relegates a lot of clan mechs to the also-ran category, but PGI looks to be trying to fix that with the AC buffs, making a couple of UAC5s or one bigger UAC a good option for mechs that don't have the pod space or hardpoints for laser vomit.

There are plenty of IS mechs that are very good and very competitive. I do very well with HBKs and I see other pilots that tear it up in BNCs, FS9s, STKs, TDRs, etc. The unlimited customization of the IS combined with massive quirks goes a long way to even the playing field when it comes to lighter, longer range clan weaponry.

#27 Kassatsu

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Devoted
  • The Devoted
  • 1,078 posts
  • LocationColorado

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:18 AM

Or we could... You know... Have clans bid their forces down and politely ask the IS what mechs they're bringing (who could blatantly lie about said forces with no repercussions) so they can make it a 'fair' fight..

And leave the tech alone.

#28 Lugh

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Widow Maker
  • The Widow Maker
  • 3,910 posts

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:21 AM

View PostJohnny Z, on 09 July 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

This recent change to the CUAC's wasnt a straight improvement. Last time I engaged an Omni mech with a CAUC I could actually see something out the cockpit window.... The claims that CUAC's are not op are false. They have many benefits and one of their strongest benefits was blinding their opposition completely and continually.

Omni mech are still OP please nerf.

Seriously? You can hit the BIG RED BOX around the target in front of you when getting rained on? Man I pity you.

#29 Necromantion

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 1,193 posts
  • LocationBC, Canada

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:28 AM

View PostLugh, on 09 July 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

Seriously? You can hit the BIG RED BOX around the target in front of you when getting rained on? Man I pity you.


Funny thing is hes not an awful player, he just rages a lot and for some reason insists on only pug dropping in CW

#30 Rhaythe

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • Philanthropist
  • 4,203 posts

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:30 AM

View PostKassatsu, on 09 July 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

Or we could... You know... Have clans bid their forces down and politely ask the IS what mechs they're bringing (who could blatantly lie about said forces with no repercussions) so they can make it a 'fair' fight..

And leave the tech alone.

If I understand you correctly, you want one side blatantly more powerful than the other? The problem there is getting people to play the underpowered side. Nobody likes being gimped. Yes, it makes sense lore-wise. But asking people to play the fodder is never fun.

#31 Sjorpha

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • Philanthropist
  • 4,480 posts
  • LocationSweden

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:33 AM

View PostPaigan, on 09 July 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

If you sir think that many IS Mechs with 25% or even 50% quirks are not overpowered and must be seriously nerfed, you should seek serious medical attention. And not just for the pain, but the brain.

I don't think the extreme quirks are OP so much as they are just plain silly.

I mean there is actually no mech that has been quirked to the level of surpassing the best clan mechs in strength. Not even the TDR 9S was ever a better mech than the TW. But the extreme quirks do transform these mechs into silly gimmick builds, and we shouldn't have that.

What we should have is one of two things:

Either IS tech that is truly on par with clan tech, so that minor quirks are only ever needed on bad chassis on both sides or for flavour, but never as a balance tool for the entire faction.

Or Asymmetrical teams with 10 vs 12 or the like.

Quote

If all the whiners couls stop with their childish whining and think about some reasonable (asymmetrical) balance, I would be so glad.


I would be glad if PGI announced they are going for that, as in 10 vs 12 or the like.

But the sad fact is the opposite, that PGI has said they want symmetrical balance between the factions, as in equally strong mechs. It is that statement that makes people not talk so much about asymmetrical options, because they believe PGI has decided against that already and that there is no point discussing it. And they may actually be right in this belief.

Personally I don't care whether the balance is by asymmetrical or symmetrical, as long as the factions are actually balanced

And the factions are actually very unbalanced right now. There is only 1 assault, 2 mediums and a few light IS mechs really used for competitive play, and they aren't used a lot. The lights will probably be replaced by the cheetah. So we have an almost complete clan dominance in the top tier metagame, that is very very bad balance.

My greatest fear is that the announced big balance pass is nothing but new quirks, that would be horrible. I hope it is a real attempt to redo the balance and get rid of most quirks, but I'm not very optimistic.

#32 Necromantion

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 1,193 posts
  • LocationBC, Canada

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:36 AM

View PostRhaythe, on 09 July 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

If I understand you correctly, you want one side blatantly more powerful than the other? The problem there is getting people to play the underpowered side. Nobody likes being gimped. Yes, it makes sense lore-wise. But asking people to play the fodder is never fun.


Things are as close to balanced as they have been since clans came out. Competent players when weighing in on the debate all say that they dont struggle in IS to keep up to their Clan mechs. Both factions have their advantages but none that makes one totally broken over the other.

IS seems to have a lot more awful pilots and/or a lot more forum crybabies.

View PostSjorpha, on 09 July 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

My greatest fear is that the announced big balance pass is nothing but new quirks, that would be horrible. I hope it is a real attempt to redo the balance and get rid of most quirks, but I'm not very optimistic.


Quirks are what will happen, because there would be no point in releasing new chassis and weapons or even having two factions if every mech loadout between the two was homogeneous whitewashed bs.

#33 Water Bear

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 1,137 posts

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:39 AM

This thread is a flaming outhouse. You came to use the toilet in it but in the end, everyone is just standing around watching the fire. Even though it stinks.

#34 BARBAR0SSA

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,136 posts
  • LocationCalgary, AB

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:40 AM

View PostSjorpha, on 09 July 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

I don't think the extreme quirks are OP so much as they are just plain silly.

I mean there is actually no mech that has been quirked to the level of surpassing the best clan mechs in strength. Not even the TDR 9S was ever a better mech than the TW. But the extreme quirks do transform these mechs into silly gimmick builds, and we shouldn't have that.

What we should have is one of two things:

Either IS tech that is truly on par with clan tech, so that minor quirks are only ever needed on bad chassis on both sides or for flavour, but never as a balance tool for the entire faction.

Or Asymmetrical teams with 10 vs 12 or the like.



I would be glad if PGI announced they are going for that, as in 10 vs 12 or the like.

But the sad fact is the opposite, that PGI has said they want symmetrical balance between the factions, as in equally strong mechs. It is that statement that makes people not talk so much about asymmetrical options, because they believe PGI has decided against that already and that there is no point discussing it. And they may actually be right in this belief.

Personally I don't care whether the balance is by asymmetrical or symmetrical, as long as the factions are actually balanced

And the factions are actually very unbalanced right now. There is only 1 assault, 2 mediums and a few light IS mechs really used for competitive play, and they aren't used a lot. The lights will probably be replaced by the cheetah. So we have an almost complete clan dominance in the top tier metagame, that is very very bad balance.

My greatest fear is that the announced big balance pass is nothing but new quirks, that would be horrible. I hope it is a real attempt to redo the balance and get rid of most quirks, but I'm not very optimistic.



Then you'd be in here raging about reduced rewards and cbills.

Again you 10 v 12 people have yet to come up with a solution to fixing the entire game around 10 v 12, it's just "Change it to 10 v 12 and done" without any thought at all to weapons changes, rewards, cbills.

10 v 12, clans would need to be back to original weapon damage, and guess what, that means a lot of peek-a-boo sniping for them...which would then lead to...More forum rage about lack of brawling!

#35 Greenjulius

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 2,319 posts
  • LocationIllinois

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:43 AM

View PostLordBraxton, on 09 July 2015 - 05:47 AM, said:

I switched to Turkeys because I bought clan mechs for cbills and then bought wave 3. No point in touching my 80 some IS mechs anymore. ESPECIALLY after the Tuesday patch... I was rocking with UACs since the last buff. Now they are god tier! IS has fallen far behind, and TTK is through the floor. IS advantage comes from specialization. Slow-speed-specialist-glass-cannons have no place in a game where TTK is this low. Any mech can alpha another mech down in 2-4 shots. Might as well grab a 90kph heavy omni and go to town.

Thank you, thank you. Also, the OP is spot on. The game needs a massive rebalance, and quirks aren't gonna cut it. I personally own ~36 clan mechs, and find even the bad ones to be superior in killing and survival ability than even my best IS mechs. For reference, I own around 73~ IS mechs. I've played nearly every chassis in the game enough times to understand why some have become meta, and others have become museum pieces.

Do any of you remember how much better balance was before July 2014? The month that balance and TTK became borked?

The PGI official answer was to put outrageous buffs on IS mechs in order to attempt to bring them up to a level that they can compete with clans. This was the wrong way to fix the problem, as anyone who is ready for difficult changes will admit.

We need a comprehensive rebalance. I'd like to hear PGI's answer; they have been talking about an internal BV measurement, but I can't see how that would fix such a terminal problem. The terminal problem is that Clan mechs were OP in TT as well.

Players who believe that everyone else can have fun being punching bags for their expensive clan gundams are sorely incorrect. I know I'm ready to see a significant portion of my mechs rebalanced, because I'm sad that nearly the only mechs I can be competitive in are the Clans.

Edited by Greenjulius, 09 July 2015 - 07:44 AM.


#36 Grommen

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • 51 posts

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:43 AM

I don't think their weapons are the problem. I think the Stormcrow, Timberwolf, and that monster DireWhale sit in a sweeet spot in mech builds. 55, 75, and 100 tons when your building a mech end up with decent speeds and a lot of pod space to pack in weapons. Then for reasons I can't understand (other than the magic of hit boxes) these three mechs can soak more damage than they should. I hit anything else in this game with my dual 20 Crab and the hit box changes colors, or they die. Those three, it's like it never happened.

Second major problem, is the XL engine. Shooting out an IS XL takes out the mech. Clan mechs suffer nothing at all.

Add in Endo or Fero being half the cost and all the benefit, and you get the prefect storm.

A fast moving, damage sponge, packing more guns than anyone else.

I can see a few things that would help.

1: spike the heat when an XL engine looses the torso. Perhaps a 30 to 50% increase would humble them.

2: Rush the development of Light engines to the IS. I don't know when in cannon they appear but Light IS engines are lighter (enough to notice on heavy and assault mechs), and only have 2 crits do displace.

3: Double, Triple, or Quadruple check the hit boxes. I play a 55 ton griffon a lot. They can not take the pounding that Stormcrows do on a regular basis.

As for the DireWhale. Perhaps a big red light above it at all times to let everyone know where they are, then half the armor value and change all their weapons to squirt guns. Chances are they will still kill me but at least I might have a chance. :)

#37 Greenjulius

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 2,319 posts
  • LocationIllinois

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:48 AM

View PostGrommen, on 09 July 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

3: Double, Triple, or Quadruple check the hit boxes. I play a 55 ton griffon a lot. They can not take the pounding that Stormcrows do on a regular basis.

Thank god I'm not the only one who feels this way about the griffin. It's side torsos are so big that it can't XL worth a damn. The tradeoff is that it can STD well, but with slashed firepower. SRM boats aren't what they used to be, and that's the best most of the griffins can do, unless you run sparky. And if you STD with sparky, you do what... 6xML? Have fun being a big Jenner.

#38 Rhaythe

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • Philanthropist
  • 4,203 posts

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:50 AM

View PostNecromantion, on 09 July 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

Things are as close to balanced as they have been since clans came out. Competent players when weighing in on the debate all say that they dont struggle in IS to keep up to their Clan mechs. Both factions have their advantages but none that makes one totally broken over the other.

IS seems to have a lot more awful pilots and/or a lot more forum crybabies.


They are. I wasn't posting that to mean otherwise. IS upper tier mechs are on par with Clan upper tier mechs if properly configured. (though that doesn't mean you'll see many Trebuchets taking down Stormcrows any time soon)

The main problem with IS mechs are the cost of entry. To get average mech X up to par with a clan mech requires it be built to quirks and enhanced with modules. Both of which require some level of pilot knowledge. Clan mechs are competitive out of the box. Since IS mechs are cheaper, IS will get more poor pilots that can't afford either of those things. Ergo, as a whole, the crop of IS mechs will likely always be less competitive - on average - than the clan counterparts.

It isn't a problem with ClanTech, per se. Just a problem with this game's earnings and pilot knowledge, both of which are PGI's fault (earnings, obviously, and lack of a tutorial to teach these high-end points).

In any case, I really wish PGI had truly gone for asymmetry as I mentioned on page one instead of modifed IS weapons that we have as ClanTech now.

#39 Tristan Winter

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,530 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:50 AM

View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Let's get some things straight first before you read any further...
1) If you do not think clan mechs are overpowered, you sir/mam are completely oblivious and should seek serious medical attention.

This opening statement completely ruined any hope of an intelligent discussion in this thread, because you didn't differentiate between Clan mechs. Not all Clan mechs are overpowered. But now this is going to be a pissingcontest between Clammers and Spheroids about whether the Thunderbolt or the Stormcrow is the most absurd example of poor balancing.

This thread would be much better if you were more specific. For example, most of my Clan mechs have a Win/Lose ratio relatively close to 1.0 or below. My Hellbringer Prime, with a near stock armament, has a WLR of about 2.2 in 60 games of almost exclusively pugging. And its KDR is also near 2.2, although statistic isn't quite as significant. Those are absolutely crazy stats for a pugger like me, and none of my Inner Sphere mechs come anywhere close to touching that WLR.

Even allowing for some statistical oddities, my point is simply that some Clan mechs are absurdly more powerful than other Clan mechs. My Mad Dog B-variant with 60 matches played has a WLR of 0.8 and a KDR of 1.1.

The Tier 1 Clan mechs are head and shoulder above all the other Clan mechs.

View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

2) BT/Mech lore cannot dictate mech competitiveness in a game where a primary mode has two sides fighting against one another with everything else still being equal. If we want to go to lore land, then how about the IS get more mechs to drop with then? The lore excuse is a convenient argument for clanners that are in power to stay there.

Agreed. I've been arguing this for years. It's a fine line though. For example, the filthy casuals who know nothing about BT or earlier MW games will say that it's totally fine if PGI turns the CPLT-C1 into the best PPC poptart in the game. To a filthy casual, the iconic status of the Catapult as a premier Inner Sphere LRM platform is completely irrelevant. To a filthy casual, the only thing that matters is optimizing every mech for MWO.

This is why PGI [with the help of NGNG, from what I hear] turned the venerable CPLT-K2 into a stinking Jagermech clone with AC10s.

I won't have that.

View PostDoktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

3) This is a call for balance. Why? Because playing a game that isn't equal isn't fun.

4) Whatever PGI just did to clan ballistics was a mistake. I don't care if they sucked before for you, they were supposed to.

Danger, Will Robinson! Hypocrisy detected.



I'm going to stop replying there. I feel like I should have read the whole OP before beginning to reply. I didn't realize this was just like every other "Clan is OP" thread. Some good points, and a whole lot of gibberish.

"Inner Sphere XL engines should be just like Clan XL engines."



Lawl. At that point, just give the Inner Sphere some Timber Wolves. Make it really equal.

#40 Necromantion

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 1,193 posts
  • LocationBC, Canada

Posted 09 July 2015 - 07:51 AM

View Postshad0w4life, on 09 July 2015 - 07:40 AM, said:



Then you'd be in here raging about reduced rewards and cbills.

Again you 10 v 12 people have yet to come up with a solution to fixing the entire game around 10 v 12, it's just "Change it to 10 v 12 and done" without any thought at all to weapons changes, rewards, cbills.

10 v 12, clans would need to be back to original weapon damage, and guess what, that means a lot of peek-a-boo sniping for them...which would then lead to...More forum rage about lack of brawling!



I think that PGI should make a policy where any suggestions that are made that do not weigh in on the positive and negative implications of those suggestions and their effects on the game should just be auto deleted.



1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users