159 replies to this topic

[Triordinant]

Best solution (and with no technical issues): alternate timeline. In 3050 the Clans have a civil war and the IS has a 5th Succession War. Clan invasion never happens and the IS never even know the Clans exist.

Result: Clans only fight Clans and IS only fights IS. All Clan/IS balance issues become irrelevant. Everybody wins except those who believe that their 'mechs (whether Clan or IS) have an edge over the other side's 'mechs and were hoping to use that edge as a crutch to make up for their lack of skill.

Edited by Triordinant, 09 July 2015 - 08:03 AM.

[Doktor Schmerz]

@Necro

You sir are why new players don't choose to rep clans. It isn't the money, its the ****** attitude. You can attack my play all you like, I know I'm a damned good pilot and can whoop your ass any given day you nancy.

For the rest of the clanners that continue to deny the superiority, look at the stat sheet for your weapon systems vs IS, this is all the proof you need. I could make a list of what makes clan mechs better, but it would go ignored because the obvious has already been ignored.

Also, FYI quirking doesn't do **** half the time, they are usually the wrong quirks for what you want to/can put in it. Stop lying to yourselves. Your weapons come perma-quirked.

Just to make things crystal, I have had 8+ clan mechs that I actually owned on this account and have an alt account just for clan crap. And no, I usually don't pug, I run with a 12 man the vast majority of the time. So that leaves one conclusion, something is wrong. You all know it as well, if not, run only IS mechs for a week in CW I dare you.

[Lostdragon]

Triordinant, on 09 July 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

Best solution (and with no technical issues): alternate timeline. In 3050 the Clans have a civil war and the IS has a 5th Succession War. Clan invasion never happens and the IS never even know the Clans exist.

Result: Clans only fight Clans and IS only fights IS. All Clan/IS balance issues become irrelevant. Everybody wins except those who believe that their 'mechs (whether Clan or IS) have an edge the other side's 'mechs and were hoping to use that edge as a crutch to make up for their lack of skill.

No thanks.

[Joseph Mallan]

Rhaythe, on 09 July 2015 - 06:22 AM, said:

Just to play devil's advocate, that's essentially what every Mechwarrior single-player game has ever done. Each one attempts to tell a story in the BattleTech universe in some fashion and, therefore, ends up writing a page in BT lore. Hell, even MechAssault is listed on sarna at this point.

I believe (and i could be wrong) that is due to Some of the Mechs being imported to the Lore. Like the Blood Asp(?)

Lostdragon, on 09 July 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

No thanks.

How about...
Home Clans?!?

[Necromantion]

Doktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

@Necro

You sir are why new players don't choose to rep clans. It isn't the money, its the ****** attitude. You can attack my play all you like, I know I'm a damned good pilot and can whoop your ass any given day you nancy.

For the rest of the clanners that continue to deny the superiority, look at the stat sheet for your weapon systems vs IS, this is all the proof you need. I could make a list of what makes clan mechs better, but it would go ignored because the obvious has already been ignored.

Also, FYI quirking doesn't do **** half the time, they are usually the wrong quirks for what you want to/can put in it. Stop lying to yourselves. Your weapons come perma-quirked.

Just to make things crystal, I have had 8+ clan mechs that I actually owned on this account and have an alt account just for clan crap. And no, I usually don't pug, I run with a 12 man the vast majority of the time. So that leaves one conclusion, something is wrong. You all know it as well, if not, run only IS mechs for a week in CW I dare you.

No, the reason new players choose IS is because the mechs cost less initially at least to be able to play. Please, I would love to play you some time when im on next.

I can attack your post all I want but when you have nothing to say that counters any of the points I make guess what? That makes you look like the fool your original post already did.

Look at the heat per damage section buddy and then factor in heat quirks tell me what you think.

Some mechs quirks are indeed junk, but there are enough out there that make any build for any playstyle viable on any chassis size. See once again it comes into the "want" thing, i cant run the builds on the mechs I want to on IS because of quirks which sucks so i chose the ones who are best suited to the job.

So you have potentially 2 mastered clan mechs and youre all knowing when it comes to clans. I have over 170 mechs, 40-50 of which are clans please tell me again where you are the authority on balance between IS and clans.

Oh and for the record we do swap every 1-2 weeks to IS for 1-2 weeks. Why dont you take your "FRR 12 man" and attack a wolf planet before we switch to our IS week. Oh even better yet, go clan and play us when were IS and see how badly you get rolled.

[Lugh]

Doktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

@Necro

You sir are why new players don't choose to rep clans. It isn't the money, its the ****** attitude. You can attack my play all you like, I know I'm a damned good pilot and can whoop your ass any given day you nancy.

For the rest of the clanners that continue to deny the superiority, look at the stat sheet for your weapon systems vs IS, this is all the proof you need. I could make a list of what makes clan mechs better, but it would go ignored because the obvious has already been ignored.

Also, FYI quirking doesn't do **** half the time, they are usually the wrong quirks for what you want to/can put in it. Stop lying to yourselves. Your weapons come perma-quirked.

Just to make things crystal, I have had 8+ clan mechs that I actually owned on this account and have an alt account just for clan crap. And no, I usually don't pug, I run with a 12 man the vast majority of the time. So that leaves one conclusion, something is wrong. You all know it as well, if not, run only IS mechs for a week in CW I dare you.

I've looked at the stat sheet and I've compared the mechs, and I've seen first hand comp teams using competitive builds roll clan teams left right and center.

You are in a state of perception bias. There are circumstances where clan mechs are superior (long range, peek and poke)
and circumstances where IS mechs are superior (mid range brawling). That you cannot see it, and execute it, isn't the developer's fault, it is your own.

There are many mechs I completely fear on the IS side of things, same can be said of the clan side.

[Joseph Mallan]

Doktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

@Necro

You sir are why new players don't choose to rep clans. It isn't the money, its the ****** attitude. You can attack my play all you like, I know I'm a damned good pilot and can whoop your ass any given day you nancy.

For the rest of the clanners that continue to deny the superiority, look at the stat sheet for your weapon systems vs IS, this is all the proof you need. I could make a list of what makes clan mechs better, but it would go ignored because the obvious has already been ignored.

Also, FYI quirking doesn't do **** half the time, they are usually the wrong quirks for what you want to/can put in it. Stop lying to yourselves. Your weapons come perma-quirked.

Just to make things crystal, I have had 8+ clan mechs that I actually owned on this account and have an alt account just for clan crap. And no, I usually don't pug, I run with a 12 man the vast majority of the time. So that leaves one conclusion, something is wrong. You all know it as well, if not, run only IS mechs for a week in CW I dare you.

Yes. You're not playing Clans selfishly enough. Try winning one on one while being double teamed see how that goes.

Don't get me wrong, I want the Clans to be more powerful. Makes winning sweeter even if its less often.

[TWIAFU]

kesmai, on 09 July 2015 - 05:53 AM, said:

Whatever.

walloftext.

Translation:

I wanna play Hawkken with a BattleTech skin.

[Lostdragon]

Doktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

For the rest of the clanners that continue to deny the superiority, look at the stat sheet for your weapon systems vs IS, this is all the proof you need. I could make a list of what makes clan mechs better, but it would go ignored because the obvious has already been ignored.

Also, FYI quirking doesn't do **** half the time, they are usually the wrong quirks for what you want to/can put in it. Stop lying to yourselves. Your weapons come perma-quirked.

For every advantage a Clan weapon has over an IS weapon there is also a disadvantage. Lasers are lighter and do more damage but have a longer burn time and generate more heat. ACs are lighter but burst fire instead of doing PPFLD.

And if you don't see the benefit of quirks for mechs like the TDR and HBK then you are being willfully ignorant. Sure you can ignore the quirks if you want, but when you get stuff like 25% more range and/or heat gen and/or duration for your lasers (which are already cooler) that is a pretty big deal if you care about building competitive mechs. Quirks for the HBK are also pretty amazing.

Basically it sounds to me like you don't want to optimize your mechs to take advantage of the quirks. I get it, I am not a fan of the quirk system either. But it looks like it is here to stay and it is how PGI is choosing to balance, so if you want to do well with IS mechs then stop whining and start taking advantage of the quirks.

There are IS mechs with strong quirks for just about every weapon, so there is bound to be something that suits you.

Edited by Lostdragon, 09 July 2015 - 08:14 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Doktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Let's get some things straight first before you read any further...

1) If you do not think clan mechs are overpowered, you sir/mam are completely oblivious and should seek serious medical attention.

There are lots of opinionated posters around here. It's generally better to be slightly more open minded, and not ignore the majority of the Clam robots.


Here's an example of how you should pitch an idea:

http://mwomercs.com/...e-normalization


Notice how it touches both factions, giving a nerf to one, and a buff to the other? How it looks into one of the worst affected by the nerf, and the best affected by the buff?

How it goes into numbers and Math?



Now look at yours, which goes PGI PLZ NERF, and you look like a whiny little baby. You don't have any facts, most of the info you have is wrong, and you've failed to give numbers for most of your "suggestions".

Edited by Mcgral18, 09 July 2015 - 08:21 AM.

[Necromantion]

Lugh, on 09 July 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

I've looked at the stat sheet and I've compared the mechs, and I've seen first hand comp teams using competitive builds roll clan teams left right and center.

You are in a state of perception bias. There are circumstances where clan mechs are superior (long range, peek and poke)
and circumstances where IS mechs are superior (mid range brawling). That you cannot see it, and execute it, isn't the developer's fault, it is your own.

There are many mechs I completely fear on the IS side of things, same can be said of the clan side.

Amen. Ive played both factions extensively in CW and Public queue over the last 3 years almost now.

[Rhaythe]

TWIAFU, on 09 July 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

Translation:

I wanna play Hawkken with a BattleTech skin.

We did that!

[WarHippy]

Doktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

Just to make things crystal, I have had 8+ clan mechs that I actually owned on this account and have an alt account just for clan crap. And no, I usually don't pug, I run with a 12 man the vast majority of the time. So that leaves one conclusion, something is wrong. You all know it as well, if not, run only IS mechs for a week in CW I dare you.

With the exception of one week of play in CW I have been IS the entire time I have played CW, and I still prefer my IS mechs. Not much of a dare when I already do it.

[Rhaythe]

WarHippy, on 09 July 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

With the exception of one week of play in CW I have been IS the entire time I have played CW, and I still prefer my IS mechs. Not much of a dare when I already do it.

Agreed. Though there are maps that certainly favor one side to the other. IS should rejoice when they get the sulphurus map, while clanners should rejoice over the snow map. (No, i can't remember their silly names; is it obvious?)

[XX Sulla XX]

Doktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Let's get some things straight first before you read any further...

1) If you do not think clan mechs are overpowered, you sir/mam are completely oblivious and should seek serious medical attention.

2) BT/Mech lore cannot dictate mech competitiveness in a game where a primary mode has two sides fighting against one another with everything else still being equal. If we want to go to lore land, then how about the IS get more mechs to drop with then? The lore excuse is a convenient argument for clanners that are in power to stay there.

3) This is a call for balance. Why? Because playing a game that isn't equal isn't fun. I don't care if that ruins your clanner lore dream fantasy. Hell, it doesn't even have to be exactly equal, I like a challenge, but things are too far apart. The current situation is analogous to an MLB team on steroids vs. an asthmatic high school team. Its not fun to play.

4) PGI has the right to write their own page in mech lore and improve upon the foundation of the game and should do so. Anyone who says otherwise is, in my opinion, a pretentious ass.

Whatever PGI just did to clan ballistics was a mistake. I don't care if they sucked before for you, they were supposed to. Every ******* weapon system clans get to have is half the tonnage of IS, if not exactly half, it is close to it or has some other benefit. With that, there was the notion that something must suck to balance it out, extra heat, longer duration, etc... It seems that this is no longer the case for ballistics. Fix it, period.

Fix the damned stormcrow already, I'm tired of this medium mech being such a pain in the ass. The thing is unhittable half the time due to ****** hitboxes and not recognizing damage. I'm not sure how many times people need to say this about this mech before it gets fixed. If you can't fix it soon, take it out of the game, or at least CW.

While you're working on the stormcrow, have a go over of the ice ferret. GCGB actually uses a tactic of bringing a whole ferret wave because they are broken as well.

If Inner Sphere weaponry is to remain heavier, damage should be increased. No quirking, no cheeky antics, just give us more damage so that we can stay on par with clan mechs.

I also want to be able to blow one side torso with an XL and still live, OR have clanners blow up with from only one torso.

I want IS gauss ammo to weigh less than clans'. Increase it to 15-20 rounds per ton, that would make more IS bring gauss and even the field against the clans who get several tons extra to put in just because their guns weigh less.

Give us more arm hardpoints that can actually fit gauss, because anything in the chest is a death sentence because you have to run an XL engine in order for the mech to be weight viable.

The raven should also go 192 kph again. IS needs better lights, you took away our light rush ability in CW anyway. And by better, yes, dare I say it, better than clan mechs.

There should also be modules for other various things on weapons and mechs. Range and cooldown are a good start, but how about other things like velocity and heat generation?

IS narc should cancel ECM in a significant radius ~200m.

I'd also enjoy a projectile explosive that uses the narc mechanic in that it sticks to mechs, but then explodes after a duration.

All consumables should be able to be taken twice if desired.

This is all heresy necessary, but it must be done in order for this game to grow in popularity and viability for new players. I'm also sure other people will have great ideas to contribute as well. Please join the discussion.

They already said they are about to rebalance the entire game. Will be in public test soon.

[Wronka]

Lostdragon, on 09 July 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

PGI obviously doesn't think Clans are too OP or they would not have buffed Clan ACs/UACs two patches in a row. What they seem to be trying to do is shift the meta away from laser based builds, hence the negative quirks (which also got rolled back some in Tuesday's patch) on the best Clan laser mechs.

Sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought clans were OP. I just meant to say they are better overall. However the change to clan ballistics doesn't prove they aren't better as a whole, it just means that weapon type was lacking, which is true it was.

Lostdragon, on 09 July 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

There is no doubt the TBR and SCR are top mechs. But if Clan tech overall is OP why aren't all Clan mechs Tier 1 mechs on metamechs.com? Because Clans tech is not OP in and of itself. The TBR and SCR are the perfect storm of upgrades (Endo, Ferro) that allow a lot of tonnage for weapons, good hitboxes, big engines, and good hardpoints. Other Clan mechs are not so lucky, especially the poor lights. Having locked equipment relegates a lot of clan mechs to the also-ran category, but PGI looks to be trying to fix that with the AC buffs, making a couple of UAC5s or one bigger UAC a good option for mechs that don't have the pod space or hardpoints for laser vomit.

What you say only proves that the clan equipment is better, as the only clan mech's that aren't good are the ones that simply cannot run said equipment.
Its also funny you bring up metamechs.com as on there the clans rank at the very top of every range. And its not just the TBR and SCR, you got the EBJ, DWF, and even the HBR that out rank the best IS mechs.

Lostdragon, on 09 July 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

There are plenty of IS mechs that are very good and very competitive. I do very well with HBKs and I see other pilots that tear it up in BNCs, FS9s, STKs, TDRs, etc. The unlimited customization of the IS combined with massive quirks goes a long way to even the playing field when it comes to lighter, longer range clan weaponry.

I never said IS mechs that have massive quirks aren't good. But using the very source of metamechs that you referenced even with the massive quirks and with unlimited customization they still fall short of clans. Maybe not by a lot, but still out ranked in every range.

[Greenjulius]

This discussion is going nowhere. Same result since Jully 2014.

1) People attack clan mechs
2) People defend clan mechs
3) People say current balance and TTK is fine/not fine
4) People make personal attacks
5) Nothing changes
6) In a few days, topic floats down a few pages and is forgotten

See you guys again in a new (but the same) topic in a week.

Edited by Greenjulius, 09 July 2015 - 08:32 AM.

[pbiggz]

Doktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Let's get some things straight first before you read any further...

1) If you do not think clan mechs are overpowered, you sir/mam are completely oblivious and should seek serious medical attention.

2) BT/Mech lore cannot dictate mech competitiveness in a game where a primary mode has two sides fighting against one another with everything else still being equal. If we want to go to lore land, then how about the IS get more mechs to drop with then? The lore excuse is a convenient argument for clanners that are in power to stay there.

3) This is a call for balance. Why? Because playing a game that isn't equal isn't fun. I don't care if that ruins your clanner lore dream fantasy. Hell, it doesn't even have to be exactly equal, I like a challenge, but things are too far apart. The current situation is analogous to an MLB team on steroids vs. an asthmatic high school team. Its not fun to play.

4) PGI has the right to write their own page in mech lore and improve upon the foundation of the game and should do so. Anyone who says otherwise is, in my opinion, a pretentious ass.

Whatever PGI just did to clan ballistics was a mistake. I don't care if they sucked before for you, they were supposed to. Every ******* weapon system clans get to have is half the tonnage of IS, if not exactly half, it is close to it or has some other benefit. With that, there was the notion that something must suck to balance it out, extra heat, longer duration, etc... It seems that this is no longer the case for ballistics. Fix it, period.

Fix the damned stormcrow already, I'm tired of this medium mech being such a pain in the ass. The thing is unhittable half the time due to ****** hitboxes and not recognizing damage. I'm not sure how many times people need to say this about this mech before it gets fixed. If you can't fix it soon, take it out of the game, or at least CW.

While you're working on the stormcrow, have a go over of the ice ferret. GCGB actually uses a tactic of bringing a whole ferret wave because they are broken as well.

If Inner Sphere weaponry is to remain heavier, damage should be increased. No quirking, no cheeky antics, just give us more damage so that we can stay on par with clan mechs.

I also want to be able to blow one side torso with an XL and still live, OR have clanners blow up with from only one torso.

I want IS gauss ammo to weigh less than clans'. Increase it to 15-20 rounds per ton, that would make more IS bring gauss and even the field against the clans who get several tons extra to put in just because their guns weigh less.

Give us more arm hardpoints that can actually fit gauss, because anything in the chest is a death sentence because you have to run an XL engine in order for the mech to be weight viable.

The raven should also go 192 kph again. IS needs better lights, you took away our light rush ability in CW anyway. And by better, yes, dare I say it, better than clan mechs.

There should also be modules for other various things on weapons and mechs. Range and cooldown are a good start, but how about other things like velocity and heat generation?

IS narc should cancel ECM in a significant radius ~200m.

I'd also enjoy a projectile explosive that uses the narc mechanic in that it sticks to mechs, but then explodes after a duration.

All consumables should be able to be taken twice if desired.

This is all heresy necessary, but it must be done in order for this game to grow in popularity and viability for new players. I'm also sure other people will have great ideas to contribute as well. Please join the discussion.

[Doktor Schmerz]

Necromantion, on 09 July 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

Oh and for the record we do swap every 1-2 weeks to IS for 1-2 weeks. Why dont you take your "FRR 12 man" and attack a wolf planet before we switch to our IS week. Oh even better yet, go clan and play us when were IS and see how badly you get rolled.

Bring it.

[Necromantion]

Greenjulius, on 09 July 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

This discussion is going nowhere. Same result since Jully 2014.

1) People attack clan mechs
2) People defend clan mechs
3) People say current balance and TTK is fine/not fine
4) People make personal attacks
5) Nothing changes
6) In a few days, topic floats down a few pages and is forgotten

See you guys again in a new (but the same) topic in a week.

You mean in the next "suggestion" thread posted.

Doktor Schmerz, on 09 July 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

Bring it.

Like i said in that post, youre all wind with nothing between your sound receptors.

Tootles