159 replies to this topic

[Tamashii]

Some people need the "I win button", especially in the summertime, where you get some brainbakedcheese!!!11111

[Greenjulius]

Necromantion, on 09 July 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

You mean in the next "suggestion" thread posted.

[Necromantion]

Greenjulius, on 09 July 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

That pic made me think of this awesome song!

Edited by Necromantion, 09 July 2015 - 08:42 AM.

[LordBraxton]

This thread is hilarious. I'll keep playing my OP clan omnis and let these jaguar and wolf idiots complain bout 'OP overquirked IS mechs.'

Can someone find me these OP IS mechs? I have the cbills to spare. My 80 some IS mechs seem like trash compared to my omnis.

Whatever, Ive become resigned to the fact that the Clan whiners greatly ounumber their IS brethren, so I just started leaning on the Clan XL crutch with em.

Can't beat em? join em! Bring on the clan buffs! Make IS mechs COMPLETELY worthless!

It's 'canon' ™ after all!

Edited by LordBraxton, 09 July 2015 - 08:45 AM.

[Lostdragon]

Wronka, on 09 July 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

Sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought clans were OP. I just meant to say they are better overall. However the change to clan ballistics doesn't prove they aren't better as a whole, it just means that weapon type was lacking, which is true it was.


What you say only proves that the clan equipment is better, as the only clan mech's that aren't good are the ones that simply cannot run said equipment.
Its also funny you bring up metamechs.com as on there the clans rank at the very top of every range. And its not just the TBR and SCR, you got the EBJ, DWF, and even the HBR that out rank the best IS mechs.


I never said IS mechs that have massive quirks aren't good. But using the very source of metamechs that you referenced even with the massive quirks and with unlimited customization they still fall short of clans. Maybe not by a lot, but still out ranked in every range.

Are we looking at the same lists on metamechs? I see 5 IS mechs listed as top tier competitive and there are no clan lights on these lists. I'm not saying there is not room for improvement for a lot of IS mechs, but the gap has been closed a lot and there are plenty of Tier 1 and Tier 2 choices for the IS that are very good compared to Clan mechs.

I will be the first to call out PGI when I don't think they are doing something right, but I think they know they are walking a fine line between Clan mechs being good or bad. They don't want to see Clans be OP and they've taken a lot of steps toward that end (I don't think they were all good steps, but that's another discussion). I think there is always room for improvement, but I don't think the situation is as dire as you and many others want to paint it to be.

Besides, this is all moot anyway since Russ said in the townhall they are doing a big balance pass soon anyway.

[Duke Nedo]

Can't read all this and I understand many wants to take a piss at the OP, but he has one point...

Either:

1. you like super-quirks, or...

2. you want to take a fresh look at IS vs clan balance, or...

3. you don't want balance, because Lore or personal reasons or whatever.

Clan non-ST death saves them 8-20 tons of pod space. Also, 2x cMPL @ 4 tons is better than 1x LPL @ 7 tons, same for cERML. As long as we have these, balance without strong quirks is really not possible... like it or not..

[Necromantion]

LordBraxton, on 09 July 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

This thread is hilarious. I'll keep playing my OP clan omnis and let these jaguar and wolf idiots complain bout 'OP overquirked IS mechs.'

Can someone find me these OP IS mechs? I have the cbills to spare. My 80 some IS mechs seem like trash compared to my omnis.

Whatever, Ive become resigned to the fact that the Clan whiners greatly ounumber their IS brethren, so I just started leaning on the Clan XL crutch with em.

Can't beat em? join em! Bring on the clan buffs! Make IS mechs COMPLETELY worthless!

It's 'canon' ™ after all!

I dont see anyone complaining about IS mechs on here, I see a lot of players bringing up the fact that while there are differences the two factions are competitive with eachother.

I would take many of the quirked IS mechs for brawling due to their heat efficiency, mid to long range poking engagements is pretty even between the two factions and at very long range clans have a slight advantage.

[LordBraxton]

Re-read the first page then ^^^^ (people mention OP super quirks several times)

We disagree

My falcon omnis crush weak inner sphere mechs like childrens toys.

Free standard engine = too stronk

the clan XL has never been addressed and at this rate it doesnt seem likely

luckily I have wave 3 and will early order the IIC pack to stay ahead of the paywalled-powercreeping-tsunami

Edited by LordBraxton, 09 July 2015 - 08:57 AM.

[Kain Demos]

LordBraxton, on 09 July 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Re-read the first page then ^^^^ (people mention OP super quirks several times)

We disagree

My falcon omnis crush weak inner sphere mechs like childrens toys.

While I think nothing is OP and anyone that thinks so is a ***** that can't adapt I don't blame anyone for fighting fire with fire (or in this case, hyperbole with hyperbole) because after all, this is simply a propaganda war. Basically there is a sea of children all squawking for the changes that they want and the loudest ones will get listened to sometimes. The bad thing is when a change does come it is never the "right" change in their minds and often goes overboard.

Edited by Kain Thul, 09 July 2015 - 08:53 AM.

[Throat Punch]

I find it HILARIOUS that the op comes in, vomits his original post in the thread that starts off attacking/insulting players of the dissenting opinion, then disappears only to reappear to vomit personal attacks on someone, then slinks away again. It's almost as if he didn't want an actual discussion. I smell a....

[Necromantion]

LordBraxton, on 09 July 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Re-read the first page then ^^^^ (people mention OP super quirks several times)

We disagree

My falcon omnis crush weak inner sphere mechs like childrens toys.

Some of the quirks are a bit heavy like the MG-like rate of fire that the 1N has but to be fair it needs that to be useful though it could be dialed back a tiny bit considering some units run 4x Dragon 1N's anyways...

Whos this "we" youre referring to? You mean you?

Wait theres a difference between falcon and the other clans omni mechs?

[CDLord HHGD]

I do not think Clan mechs in and of themselves are OP. I do think the meta is OP and the Clan mechs are some of (but not all) the best at it.

Clan mechs are supposed to be OP. That's lore. What we're incapable of doing however is balancing that with the number of units (10 Clan vs 12 IS which is two Clan stars vs 1 IS lance). Failing that, we got what we got.

You fix the meta (championed ideas below) would go a long way to resolve this basic and fundamental failing.

Sized Hardpoints
The important thing here is to keep it simple. Some have argued that this would complicate the mechlab. Well, Mechwarrior mechlabs, both the UI and the rules, are pretty darn complex to begin with. Adding what I describe below should not be an issue.

Essentially make two different sized hardpoints for each weapon type. Large/Small Energy/Ballistic/Missile. Those weapons that classify as small weapons can be equipped in a large hard point, but large weapons cannot be equipped in small hardpoints. This has the added benefit of those smaller mechs that do mount the large weapons in their stock configuration unique and valuable. The hardpoint size would be determined by the chassis stock loadout.

Small weapons: TAG, Small Laser, Medium Laser, Machine Gun, AC2, AC5, NARC, SRM2, SRM4, LRM5, LRM10.
Large weapons: Large Laser, PPC, AC10, AC20, Gauss Rifle, SRM6, LRM15, LRM20.

Realign Ghost Heat
Determine (via testing) an appropriate non-meta damage output number. For the sake of this intro, I will use 20 points of damage. For grouped weapons or weapons fired simultaneously, track the potential damage output. Anything that goes over 20 points, begin the application of ghost heat. Fire one AC20 or 3 Medium Lasers, no ghost heat. Fire 4 Medium Lasers and you start to get GH. Fire two AC20's (40 points damage) you get GH. Apply a "cooldown" time of .25 seconds or so to separate the GH mechanic application to volleys.

Realign Quirks
There should be NO negative quirks! All positive quirks should be realigned to apply only to stock loadouts of those variants with the quirks (and possible even apply limiters based on the number of stock weapons vs available hardpoints).
NOTE: Just because a mech doesn't have a quirk that supports your loadout, you are not prevented from or penalized for running your loadout. Everyone will agree that the stock loadouts are sub-par so quirks that strengthen those loadouts make the most sense.

Note: This is all taking the game as it is now. IF PGI gets around to introducing separate weapons/equipment manufacturers, quirks would transfer from the chassis (in most cases) to the different manufacturers.

Edited by cdlord, 09 July 2015 - 08:56 AM.

[Necromantion]

Mors Draco, on 09 July 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

I find it HILARIOUS that the op comes in, vomits his original post in the thread that starts off attacking/insulting players of the dissenting opinion, then disappears only to reappear to vomit personal attacks on someone, then slinks away again. It's almost as if he didn't want an actual discussion. I smell a....

Yep, notice how when I dissected his whole first post he had nothing to say to counter any of the counters that were made with anything at all never mind some attempt at something constructive.

I dont think its a troll though, just another ranting child on the forums.

[TanE]

I like this thread! I think Doc Schmerzi is the first one who told us: Ice Ferrets are OP!

So 12 Firestarters with 8 SPL are not OP. And 192 km/h are OK... Wait, where is the awesome meme...

...ah, here it is!



Organized gaming is OP. Most of the time...

Edited by TanE, 09 July 2015 - 08:58 AM.

[Necromantion]

TanE, on 09 July 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

I like this thread! I think Doc Schmerzi is the first one who told us: Ice Ferrets are OP!

So 12 Firestarters with 8 SPL are not OP. And 192 km/h are OK... Wait, where is the awesome meme...

...ah, here it is!



Organized gaming is OP. Most of the time...

You win because you made great points and used a photo from Calvin and Hobbes

[pbiggz]

Necromantion, on 09 July 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

Yep, notice how when I dissected his whole first post he had nothing to say to counter any of the counters that were made with anything at all never mind some attempt at something constructive.

I dont think its a troll though, just another ranting child on the forums.

He's not a troll, he just has a bad argument and he knows it, probably because someone killed him in game and now he's pissy.

Trolls say things they know will bother people. Like... this!


OP isn't trying to bother people, he actually thinks he's right, which means he's alot less smart than a troll.

ps: he's probably only here because grade 7 doesn't start until september.

Edited by pbiggz, 09 July 2015 - 09:01 AM.

[Necromantion]

pbiggz, on 09 July 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

He's not a troll, he just has a bad argument and he knows it, probably because someone killed him in game and now he's pissy.

Trolls say things they know will bother people. Like... this!


OP isn't trying to bother people, he actually thinks he's right, which means he's alot less smart than a troll.

ps: he's probably only here because grade 7 doesn't start until september.

QFT!

[Kain Demos]

I don't remember how you ended up on my ignore list but you seem to like so many posts I've made I guess its time to change that.

[Necromantion]

I think it was because the whole CW/CGB Gyrok drama that went on

[LordBraxton]

All I see in this thread is

1- a midling player (op) expressed a valid opinion rather poorly.

2- Then he was attacked by a wall of clan icons.

3- OP foolishly responded with more attacks (addressing the attack against him instead of making counter arguments. yes a bunch of people attacked the OP, then tried to act 'rational' when he attacked back)

4- A bunch of Clan players proceeded to have a big group jerk off session about how 'fair' their mechs are.

Clan mechs are MUCH better than IS, almost entirely due to the godlike ClanXL. That is my opinion, and why I play clan mechs.

Also YES, Falcon omnis are far better than other clan's mechs. Just look at our summoner for example.

Edited by LordBraxton, 09 July 2015 - 09:11 AM.