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Top 5 'mechs For Re-Scale Vote! (Part 2)


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Poll: Top 5 'Mechs for Re-Scale (2397 member(s) have cast votes)

Top 5 'Mechs to be re-scaled vote.

  1. Kit Fox (281 votes [11.72%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.72%

  2. Raven (28 votes [1.17%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.17%

  3. Adder (21 votes [0.88%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.88%

  4. Centurion (229 votes [9.55%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.55%

  5. Voted Nova (477 votes [19.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.90%

  6. Voted Shadowhawk (83 votes [3.46%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.46%

  7. Voted Quickdraw (258 votes [10.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.76%

  8. Voted Catapult (396 votes [16.52%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.52%

  9. Grasshopper (83 votes [3.46%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.46%

  10. Voted Awesome (458 votes [19.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.11%

  11. Victor (41 votes [1.71%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.71%

  12. Stalker (42 votes [1.75%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.75%

Vote

#121 Greenjulius

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 11:52 PM

View PostTennex, on 10 July 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

Something to keep in mind while making these votes

Posted Image

Well, there's an eye opener. What I see, is that mediums across the board are too large. The Nova obviously is the most screwed and in need of fixing.

Other than that, it's the usual suspects. Kitfox is bigger than any 35 tonner, except the Badder.

Catapult, Victor and Warhawk are all shockingly large too.

The Zeus is actually smaller than most 60 tonners, which is hilarious.

My vote went to the Cute Fox, because I want to make sure it makes the top 5. There are many worth mechs in the polls that will be unfortunately missed I fear.

The Centurion and Treb stand out as badly sized 50 tonners with the Nova.

Edited by Greenjulius, 12 July 2015 - 11:53 PM.


#122 Juodas Varnas

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 12:00 AM

Wait, seriously?
Uller is now ahead of the QUICKDRAW?
Posted Image

#123 Greenjulius

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 12:05 AM

View PostJuodas Varnas, on 13 July 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

Wait, seriously?
Uller is now ahead of the QUICKDRAW?
Posted Image

Yeah, but it is still solidly in the top 5:

1) Nova - 164
2) Awesome - 154
3) Catapult - 141
4) Kit Fox - 102
5) Quickdraw - 99
6) Centurion - 79

Poor Centurion.

#124 Juodas Varnas

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 12:14 AM

A madhouse. It's a damn madhouse!

#125 Navid A1

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 12:27 AM

View PostJuodas Varnas, on 13 July 2015 - 12:14 AM, said:

A madhouse. It's a damn madhouse!


I realized that as soon as i saw the stalker among the top 3 assaults

I mean... seriously?... the stalker?... who voted for that?
At least tell me you voted for stalker to have it increase in size... that could be the only logical reason.

Also, I will take the kitfox over the quickdraw everyday, all day, for a re scale.

Edited by Navid A1, 13 July 2015 - 12:29 AM.


#126 Juodas Varnas

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 12:35 AM

View PostNavid A1, on 13 July 2015 - 12:27 AM, said:


Also, I will take the kitfox over the quickdraw everyday, all day, for a re scale.

Posted Image

#127 Jack Shayu Walker

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 12:48 AM

View PostJuodas Varnas, on 12 July 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

#VoteCenturion2015

A candidate you can believe in!


Weeehehehell here we go again.

I thought this was ggclosed? :V

#128 Juodas Varnas

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 12:50 AM

View PostJack Shayu Walker, on 13 July 2015 - 12:48 AM, said:

Weeehehehell here we go again.

I thought this was ggclosed? :V

It clearly is.
I'm not hoping, people don't decide to focus their efforts on voting for the Badder and overtake the Quickdraw who got overtaken by the Uller, because it's a popularity contest.

#129 Jack Shayu Walker

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 12:59 AM

View PostJuodas Varnas, on 13 July 2015 - 12:50 AM, said:

It's a popularity contest.


Well... yeah... it's a poll.

If they wanted to shrink the mechs that objectively needed it the most then they shouldn't have put it to a poll. If you put it to a poll then the question is instead "what mech do you want to be shrunken the most?"

#130 Butane9000

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 04:44 AM

Honestly after thinking about this the entire poll is a sham.

Most if not all of these mechs need rescaling. The fact that we're "voting" on which we want is asinine. How much time has been wasted by the devs doing this vote when it could have been devoted to actually rescaling these atrocities.

#131 Mawai

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 04:47 AM

View PostTennex, on 10 July 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

Something to keep in mind while making these votes

Posted Image


LOL!

As far as I am concerned, PGI should be using a chart like this one and not some ridiculous poll to determine which mechs need rescaling. These are numbers not impressions from playing or folks with an axe to grind.

All PGI has to do is write up a 10 minute blog ... post this chart or something similar ... and explain why they have chosen the five worst offenders for rescaling. Simple, easy, logical, fast, and doesn't need to be voted on ... over and over.

#132 Tennex

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 05:11 AM

View PostMawai, on 13 July 2015 - 04:47 AM, said:


LOL!

As far as I am concerned, PGI should be using a chart like this one and not some ridiculous poll to determine which mechs need rescaling. These are numbers not impressions from playing or folks with an axe to grind.

All PGI has to do is write up a 10 minute blog ... post this chart or something similar ... and explain why they have chosen the five worst offenders for rescaling. Simple, easy, logical, fast, and doesn't need to be voted on ... over and over.


yeah i think if they rein the 60 tonners and the 55 tonners in, plus target some of the outliers they will be set

#133 Wronka

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 05:39 AM

I am not sure if the pixel chart floating around in this thread is the only thing we should be using to consider the worst mechs, but it is definitely a good place to start. The problem with this is only 5 mechs will be re-scaled and there are FAR more than 5 mechs that need scaling help (seems almost every mech from 50-65 tons needs re-scale). You fix the top 5, but then the next 5 will be standing out as too large. Centurion, for example, really needs some help (among many other mechs) that will not get touched. Are we just going to have to do this voting thing all over again in a few months when enough of us complain that the next 5 largest mechs are still too big?

Also, can we skip part 3 of this voting process? It is quite clear the top 5 mechs will all need scaling DOWN. So lets save a week and skip the last part of this poll.

Edited by Wronka, 13 July 2015 - 05:40 AM.


#134 Mordynak

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 05:41 AM

I kinda hope the Catapult gets altered. But then I think it will prevent them from revisiting it to change weapon geometry.

#135 Matthew Ace

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 05:57 AM

View PostMordynak, on 13 July 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

I kinda hope the Catapult gets altered. But then I think it will prevent them from revisiting it to change weapon geometry.


Nah they're already working on it.

#136 Greenjulius

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 06:05 AM

For those not understanding why the Kit Fox is a favorite for rescaling, here's the reason:

It's a 30 ton light. It can't carry significant firepower, and it only runs 107kph. The worst part is that it's nearly the size of a 40 tonner, the Cicada. So it gets hit with the double whammy of big size and low speed, leading it to not be very survivable.

While I agree that the Catapult, Quickdraw, Nova and Awesome all need rescaled, (along with a dozen more mechs at least) I feel the Kitfox is most important due to light gameplay being focused on size. That "play it like a light medium" crap doesn't fly here. I'll repeat: It's a 30 tonner with paper armor. It shouldn't take up much more room than an Urbie, the IS mech that mirrors it closest.

Edited by Greenjulius, 13 July 2015 - 06:06 AM.


#137 Wildstreak

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 06:56 AM

Tennex's chart is off.

If you think the red or purple lines are where Mechs should be that's wrong.

He put the Kit Fox ahead of the UrbanMech so according to the red line, the Urbie should be bigger than the Fox. Really? It has never been that way ever.

The Spider comes after the Urbie when it should come before so the Spider and Fox should be flipped at least.

Shadow Hawk, Griffin and Wolverine are much better in game than they should be.

Some Mechs have width that is fine, Nova and King Crab being examples. Both appear to have problems by the chart when they do not except the Nova could shrink height some but width, nope.

Both the Hunchback and Centurion became pudgy from spending a bit too much time at fast food joints but both are still seen in game and good, the Trebuchet is a whole different thing and deserved priority.

The Quickdraw is worse than the Dragon (if it even has issues) but the chart makes the Dragon look worse.

I could go on but those are enough to show the chart is off. Not everything in the same tonnage needs the same pixel count (for whatever reason that is being used).

View PostAlienized, on 12 July 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

it has that torsoshape (fat) and nothing will change it.

Except it was never designed to be as wide as a Stalker torso but that is how it is in MWO, then add in the large boxy ears bigger than the Stalker's small, slim ones.

View PostJuodas Varnas, on 12 July 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure all players need premium time to be able to have a private match.

You need Premium Time to set variables (map, mode, etc.) and allow less than 12 per side. You can get 22 other people to join a free Private Match and let you two go one on one, random map, mode, etc.

View PostButane9000, on 13 July 2015 - 04:44 AM, said:

Honestly after thinking about this the entire poll is a sham.

Most if not all of these mechs need rescaling. The fact that we're "voting" on which we want is asinine. How much time has been wasted by the devs doing this vote when it could have been devoted to actually rescaling these atrocities.

None because the PGI staff that would do this also has other things to do. Time Management.

View PostGreenjulius, on 13 July 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

For those not understanding why the Kit Fox is a favorite for rescaling, here's the reason:

It's a 30 ton light. It can't carry significant firepower, and it only runs 107kph. The worst part is that it's nearly the size of a 40 tonner, the Cicada. So it gets hit with the double whammy of big size and low speed, leading it to not be very survivable.

While I agree that the Catapult, Quickdraw, Nova and Awesome all need rescaled, (along with a dozen more mechs at least) I feel the Kitfox is most important due to light gameplay being focused on size. That "play it like a light medium" crap doesn't fly here. I'll repeat: It's a 30 tonner with paper armor. It shouldn't take up much more room than an Urbie, the IS mech that mirrors it closest.

For those not understanding why the Kit Fox is in no dire need of rescaling.

Not all Mechs of the same tonnage were ever made to have the same size. Fox has always been wider than a Urbie. It can carry significant firepower, 107 KPH is pretty darn good and was never meant to play like every other Mech out there.

Part of the problem is people want every Mech to play the same. They expect a Spider to play like an Atlas and have the same killing & damage rates among others. They get this from other FPS games where you play someone who can use every weapon all the others use, have the same HP and other stats, etc.

This is not those games.

I don't play my Foxes like Mediums, I play them in a different role and do quite well with them.

#138 Greenjulius

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 07:09 AM

View PostWildstreak, on 13 July 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

Tennex's chart is off.

If you think the red or purple lines are where Mechs should be that's wrong.

He put the Kit Fox ahead of the UrbanMech so according to the red line, the Urbie should be bigger than the Fox. Really? It has never been that way ever.

I'll break down what the chart entails:

The Orange/Red line is the running average from lightest 20 tonner (only mech being the locust) to the largest 100 tonner, by volume the King Crab. It's there to show divergent weights, especially in the 50-60 ton range. Almost all mechs in the 50-60 ton range are in need of rescaling. Mechs that fall below it significantly are usually blessed, like the teeny Zeus. It's 60-65 tonner sized despite being 80 tons. The grasshopper similarly has low volume, but is cursed with Shaq-tallness that usually gets it focus fired on, worse than the similarly Shaq-tall Shadowhawk, only more extreme.

The purple lines represent the average size of the given weight class, ie; 50 tonners. The 50 tonner average is the purple line running through the 50 tonners. The Nova, Centurion and Trebuchet are all far too large, while the Hunchback and Enforcer are about right. The Nova's pixel volume is massively larger than any mech in the 50-55 ton class, and shares more in common with 60 and 65 tonners. I've done side by sides and agree with this data.

Mechs are presented in order of largest per pixel to smallest per pixel in their given weight class. Perhaps this is misleading, but it illustrates the point well for outliers like the Nova and Catapult. The Kit Fox for instance is ahead of the Urbanmech because it's by far the largest 30 tonner. Comparing the two by volume indicates that the Kitfox is nearly twice the Urbie's size.

I am impressed by Tennex's chart, and don't think it's misleading at all. It's really a public service, and I can't "like" his post enough. Edit: I see that it's actually Tarogato's chart, so hats off to him. I still appreciate Tennex posting it here though.

This is coming from a dedicated IS pilot who plays all mechs, 31 clan and 77 IS mechs, and growing. I have no agenda.

Edited by Greenjulius, 13 July 2015 - 07:25 AM.


#139 Alienized

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 07:43 AM

View PostWildstreak, on 13 July 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:


Except it was never designed to be as wide as a Stalker torso but that is how it is in MWO, then add in the large boxy ears bigger than the Stalker's small, slim ones.



i like to throw in that the stalker is the one at the wrong size here. it needs to be rescaled. made bigger. apart from that the catapult was a pure lrm mech (hence the massive ears), the stalker always carried few lrms with srms added thats why it never needed such big ears.

#140 Mazzyplz

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 08:04 AM

victor and stalker over highlander and warhawk????


shadowhawk over trebuchet?????


i hope the resize doesn't make nova OP, it's got so much firepower...





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