97 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

I was wondering how other players perceive ECM currently. So please if you want to share your thoughts keep it brief and simple (see below) and don't start a flame war.

1. Like/Dislike

2. Reason(s):

3. How would you change it if you could

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I will start.

1. Dislike

2. Reasons:
- too powerful (can hide a whole company, you can run in front of a fire line which is outside BAP and you even don't know it - you are dead, especially as a light, weight too low, hardcounter for a whole weapon system etc etc etc)
- Radar becomes obsolete
- better hitreg makes ECM even better because getting in free shots is now more importantz than ever
- which role does it have in the game? Hardcounter for the supposedly weak LRMs?

3. I would limit it to the mech carrying the ECM

Edited by Bush Hopper, 12 July 2015 - 08:25 AM.

[stjobe]

1. Dislike.
2. It's an overpowered amalgamation of at least three, if not four, separate items from TT.
3. I would split it into its constituent items as per TT.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Well, personally I don't think it's that bad simply because of TAG. TAG is so light I end up mounting it on any extra energy hardpoints I have, and most mechs, especially Clan mechs, have abundant extra energy hardpoints. Point a TAG laser at an ECM user, and suddenly that god-system is just extra tonnage. Another thing about ECM is that you can counter other ECM users with it by switching modes. The more people that have it on both teams, the more people can cancel each other out. You also have BAP if someone gets close and you don't have TAG or ECM. I really think ECM is about where it needs to be, and that LRMs need just a little buff.

edit: If anything does need tweaked with ECM, I would say decreasing the size of or removing the ECM "bubble" of protection that a single mech can give to others.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 12 July 2015 - 08:45 AM.

[bad arcade kitty]

i'm a bit scared that overabundance of ecm may lead to multiple cases of being duo ecm locked... and not everybody is so silly to let you from that umbrella

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 12 July 2015 - 08:59 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

I hate it.

It should be changed into an actual COUNTERMEASURES suite instead of the Deus Ex Machina it is now.
-It should NOT prevent targeting.
-It should NOT prevent missile locks (neither LRM nor SSRM).
-It should negate Artemis IV, TAG, BAP and NARC (instead of the other way around, where TAG, NARC and BAP are the ones that "counter the countermeasures")
-It should increase the time (or completely prevent) targeting information gathering (getting the paperdoll of the enemy mech)

If PGI is so scared of LRMs coming back for a second Lurmageddon, they should rebalance LRM indirect/direct fire capabilities, by severely increasing the missiles spread while shooting indirectly, while highly increasing missile speed and shallowing the missile trajectory, while using them for direct fire (with your own lock-on).

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 12 July 2015 - 09:09 AM.

[Bubblewhip]

What if NARC misses it hits the ground and counters all ECM in AOE for duration?

[Wintersdark]

Mcchuggernaut, on 12 July 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

Well, personally I don't think it's that bad simply because of TAG. TAG is so light I end up mounting it on any extra energy hardpoints I have, and most mechs, especially Clan mechs, have abundant extra energy hardpoints. Point a TAG laser at an ECM user, and suddenly that god-system is just extra tonnage. Another thing about ECM is that you can counter other ECM users with it by switching modes. The more people that have it on both teams, the more people can cancel each other out. You also have BAP if someone gets close and you don't have TAG or ECM. I really think ECM is about where it needs to be, and that LRMs need just a little buff.

edit: If anything does need tweaked with ECM, I would say decreasing the size of or removing the ECM "bubble" of protection that a single mech can give to others.

Tag is a terrible counter.

I'm not talking about LRM's here, but ECM overall. Even without its impact on LRM's ECM brings far more to the battlefield than its worth. . Tag? The ECM mech doesn't need Los to anyone to cloak his whole team, but you do need Los and face time too to paint the ECM mech with TAG. That's time he or his teammates can be drilling through your unmoving CT.

Counters to ECM don't make it OK. ECM does too much as it stands, for too little.

stjobe, on 12 July 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

2. It's an overpowered amalgamation of at least three, if not four, separate items from TT.
3. I would split it into its constituent items as per TT.

This. Make getting the full suite of abilities cost more tonnage and space.

[El Bandito]

I'm not even gonna bother.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 July 2015 - 09:18 AM.

[bad arcade kitty]

ecm is fine as it is now

if it gets too powerful they always can buff bap

[Onmyoudo]

Dislike. It is super overpowered for the cost, any mech that has it available will take it because not taking it would be mind boggling. It should make LRMs/SSRMs take longer to lock on and maybe longer info gathering. The cloak and radar deprivation and everything else should be other equipment, if they're in the game at all.

[Wintersdark]

bad arcade kitty, on 12 July 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

ecm is fine as it is now

if it gets too powerful they always can buff bap

better hard counters isn't a good solution. It just makes it more feast or famine, and encourages it to be even more valuable per tonnage spent.

[Mcgral18]

Dislike


It's the Magic Jesus Box which combines gECM, aECM, Stealth Armour/Null Sig (same effect) while also adding some fairy dust to prevent missile locks altogether.


Solution: Turn the Magic Jesus Box into Guardian ECM, or at least give it some of the penalties it presently ignores. Those include 2 tons for the aECM system and 2 crits, 7 or 12 crit slots for the Stealth (null sig is only 7), and 1 heat per second for the stealth.

Simply adding the 1 Heat/second to Disrupt mode is an easy bandaid. It will essentially turn your DHS into SHS, making it a considerable cost for a considerable benefit.

Want to cool off? Turn it to Counter and lose the Jesus Box benefits.

Alternatively, fix the Jesus Box to not combine 3 advanced technologies and fairy dust, without costing any of the penalties.

Edited by Mcgral18, 12 July 2015 - 10:11 AM.

[bad arcade kitty]

Wintersdark, on 12 July 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

better hard counters isn't a good solution. It just makes it more feast or famine, and encourages it to be even more valuable per tonnage spent.

and your supposed nerfs would make it completely useless

also it's just 1-1.5 ton to counter it and bap needs no specific hardpoints and also gives you other bonuses like faster paperdoll and longer sensors range

ecm greatly adds to tactics too

[Juodas Varnas]

bad arcade kitty, on 12 July 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

ecm greatly adds to tactics too

[Alan Davion]

bad arcade kitty, on 12 July 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

i'm a bit scared that overabundance of ecm may lead to multiple cases of being duo ecm locked... and not everybody is so silly to let you from that umbrella

bad arcade kitty, on 12 July 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

ecm is fine as it is now

if it gets too powerful they always can buff bap

bad arcade kitty, on 12 July 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

and your supposed nerfs would make it completely useless

also it's just 1-1.5 ton to counter it and bap needs no specific hardpoints and also gives you other bonuses like faster paperdoll and longer sensors range

ecm greatly adds to tactics too

That's just it. ECM already is to powerful as StJobe points out... And it's becoming more and more abundant. The release of the A.Cheetah and S.Cat will have even more ECM mechs running around.

stjobe, on 12 July 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

1. Dislike.
2. It's an overpowered amalgamation of at least three, if not four, separate items from TT.
3. I would split it into its constituent items as per TT.

It combines 3 if not 4 countermeasures into one "Jesus Box" as everyone has come to call it. Granted I don't know what all the differences are between Angel and Guardian ECM, Stealth Armor and Null Sig due to not having ever played the TT version, but that doesn't mean I can't see that ECM as it is now is way overpowered.

Some people have pointed out already that TAG is rendered ineffective if you have 2 ECM mechs right next to each other, so yes, it is OP, and I have yet to see anything done with BAP or TAG to counter that.

So in response to the op.

1. Dislike
2. Simply due to overabundance of ECM capable mechs.
3. Providing ECM coverage to friendly mechs is all well and good, that's the entire point of ECM. What should be changed is to either...
A. Make the mech mounting the ECM stand out like a sore thumb on the radar, thus making that mech a priority target,
or B. As McGral18 pointed out, make the mech suffer a heat penalty when running the disrupt function. This would force the use of new tactics, such as the ECM mechs firing less weapons to prevent overheating, and having to switch modes in order to cool off.

Granted that does nothing about the simple overabundance of ECM capable mechs. So they need to be split into their respective Angel/Guardian forms, not the super black box we have now.

[STEF_]

http://mwomercs.com/...i-like-bt-more/

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 12 July 2015 - 10:02 AM.

[Xetelian]

1. & 2. Don't really care because I rarely use LRMs and rarely die from LRMs alone.

3. I'd leave it as is.

[El Bandito]

Xetelian, on 12 July 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

1. & 2. Don't really care because I rarely use LRMs and rarely die from LRMs alone.

3. I'd leave it as is.

Except ECM's use as info-denial is even more important and game changing than LRM deterrent.

Even if LRMs become extinct, current ECM will still be popular all around, and still be an important benchmark of a mech's viability, due to how much it can do for mere 1-1.5 ton of weight.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 July 2015 - 10:19 AM.

[Novakaine]

Well since I can't use the lord's name in vain I'll just say this.
ECM should not counter a tag laser beam which it freaking does.
And does bap even work now, I can't freaking tell

Edited by Novakaine, 12 July 2015 - 10:24 AM.

[Wintersdark]

El Bandito, on 12 July 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Except ECM's use as info-denial is even more important and game changing than LRM deterrent.

Even if LRMs become extinct, current ECM will still be popular all around, and still be an important benchmark of a mech's viability, due to how much it can do for mere 1-1.5 ton of weight.

This.

It's something that needs to be said when ECM is discussed. The inability to get LRM locks is *not* why ECM is overpowered, it's just one factor amongst many.