342 replies to this topic

[DovisKhan]

Light PPCs

Heavy PPCs

MRMs


Just hope they'll have those

Edited by DovisKhan, 16 January 2017 - 02:39 AM.

[Mechteric]

I'm looking most forward to Light Gauss and Heavy Gauss personally, as well as the currently missing IS tech that the clans already have (ER lasers other than large, and UAC other than 5's)

I'm also thinking that assuming clans get their heavy lasers, the IS will probably need the X-Pulse lasers to compensate.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 16 January 2017 - 06:17 AM.

[SlyJJ]

CapperDeluxe, on 16 January 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

I'm looking most forward to Light Gauss and Heavy Gauss personally, as well as the currently missing IS tech that the clans already have (ER lasers other than large, and UAC other than 5's)

I'm also thinking that assuming clans get their heavy lasers, the IS will probably need the X-Pulse lasers to compensate.

The problem with the X pulse is that its only improving range. Those heavy large lasers with a range of 405 is going to hurt A LOT.

Beyond those I think the biggest problem is going to be those heavy mediums- for one ton they've got a weapon that drops 11 damage. Imagine an artic cheetah packing those on.... the only positive drawback is its range.

These heavy lasers seem to be the only clan weapon where they DONT get excessive range. It'll all going to be interesting to see how it unfolds. I still think the clans are going to get an excessive advantage, but I'm willing to put up with it to see how it all unfolds.

[Andi Nagasia]

SlyJJ, on 16 January 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

The problem with the X pulse is that its only improving range. Those heavy large lasers with a range of 405 is going to hurt A LOT.

Beyond those I think the biggest problem is going to be those heavy mediums- for one ton they've got a weapon that drops 11 damage. Imagine an artic cheetah packing those on.... the only positive drawback is its range.

These heavy lasers seem to be the only clan weapon where they DONT get excessive range. It'll all going to be interesting to see how it unfolds. I still think the clans are going to get an excessive advantage, but I'm willing to put up with it to see how it all unfolds.

i tried to make weapons in the OP balanced, and also Fill Gaps in our Current Weapon Line up,
X Pulse Lasers, are closer to Clan heat, but at abit more than Clan Ranges,
this is to help give IS a ERish Pulse laser to help with some Ranged engagements(Range for Heat)

Heavy Lasers are used to Fill Holes when it comes to Mechs that are Hard Points Starved,
Ghost Heat balances the Power of Heavy Lasers,

Andi Nagasia, on 15 January 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

remember Heavy LL will be locked to only being able to fire 2,
so for my Stats HLL will only do 30Damage @26Heat @405m @8Tons @6Crits,
where as Standard 2LPL do 26Damage @20Heat @600m @12Tons @4Crits,
Ghost heat Balances the System so its more a Sidegrade then an Upgrade,

this means a SHC with 2Heavy LLs with have the Equivalent of 4ERMLs, which isnt OP at all,

[1453 R]

I sincerely doubt heavy lasers, if implemented, will come in with TT damage values. A one-ton laser dealing eleven damage just skews things too far no matter how short that laser's range is or how many drawbacks it has. The cERML already skews the curve for one-ton lasers. Especially given how FutureTech was delayed specifically because Russ was skeered of heavy lasers, I'm thinking those're going to be dialed back a lot.

The real kicker will be some of the crap the Sphere can get with this update, though. Heavy PPCs, if they come online, would give the Sphere a good counter to a lot of Clan front-loaded nonsense like Summoner-tarts, and Snub PPCs would equally be a pretty violent option if adjusted for MWO damage levels. The heavy gauss is super limited in its applications, yeah, but it's also a 25-muthafuggin-damage god cannon. To say nothing of what MRMs could do (provided hitreg is kind to them).

There will still be balance problems, a'course, but I'm thinking Clanz will be much less OP when all of, or even just some of, this crap hits.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

1453 R, on 16 January 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

Heavy PPCs, if they come online, would give the Sphere a good counter to a lot of Clan front-loaded nonsense like Summoner-tarts

Heavy PPCs will be nice, but they won't be a counter to things like the Summoner tart, especially depending on the ghost heat limit they give it. They still have plenty of things going against them (like iXLs if they don't have the appropriate quirks, or the problem of Endo being twice as big and their DHS being 50% bigger, etc, etc).

1453 R, on 16 January 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

To say nothing of what MRMs could do (provided hitreg is kind to them).

Hit reg won't be kind to them so long as they are treat each missile as its own projectile, I can almost guarantee that.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 January 2017 - 08:54 AM.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Why increase the damage on the heavy lasers? In lore they're 6,10 and 16 damage respectively, which gives them extreme damage efficiency for their tonnage, if you'll be balancing them for MWO, damage is not what should be changed, especially making it even higher than in lore...

[1453 R]

Gentleman Reaper, on 16 January 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

Why increase the damage on the heavy lasers? In lore they're 6,10 and 16 damage respectively, which gives them extreme damage efficiency for their tonnage, if you'll be balancing them for MWO, damage is not what should be changed, especially making it even higher than in lore...

Most (sane) folks would argue for a reduction in cER beam damage and a reduction in incoming HL TT damage values, because even just a 10-damage laser for one ton is bugnuts. The issue is smalls, of course - the cERSL is still considered only borderline viable at 5 damage. Knocking it down to 4 to give the HSL more room to come in at appropriate levels just kills the whole line. We may have to let the HSL be, but I wouldn't expect more'n 8 damage tops for the HML, and even that's honestly pushing it for a one-ton laser without some monster drawbacks to heavy laser technology.

Which there rightfully should be, but even still. I'm not sure how much drawback you would need to make a 10-damage one-ton weapon not break the game in half, but it would be an awful, awful lot.

[Andi Nagasia]

1453 R, on 16 January 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

I sincerely doubt heavy lasers, if implemented, will come in with TT damage values. A one-ton laser dealing eleven damage just skews things too far no matter how short that laser's range is or how many drawbacks it has. The cERML already skews the curve for one-ton lasers. Especially given how FutureTech was delayed specifically because Russ was skeered of heavy lasers, I'm thinking those're going to be dialed back a lot.

as ive said in the OP and again jsut above,
if you can only fire 3HML then its no different than firing 6ERSLs,
all this will help is Mechs that cant carry lots of weapons, MLXs, ADRs, IFR, SMN, WHK,
an ADR with 5HML acts as if it has 10ERSLs, a SMN 3HLL works as if it had 6ERMLS, a WHK with 4HLL = 8ERMLs,

Gentleman Reaper, on 16 January 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

Why increase the damage on the heavy lasers? In lore they're 6,10 and 16 damage respectively, which gives them extreme damage efficiency for their tonnage, if you'll be balancing them for MWO, damage is not what should be changed, especially making it even higher than in lore...

Crap thats Right they are 10Damage not 11, Thanks Reaper, Fixed in OP,

[dwwolf]

SRMs should be given limited guidance ( perhaps home to reticle with a 20 to 30 degree turn over its range).

MRMs should function like SRMs do currently. But I pity the server hamsters. Hitreg will be very wonky.


Im not too worried about heavy lasers. 100% to 150% extra burntime with some extra cooldown.

Edited by dwwolf, 16 January 2017 - 09:31 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 January 2017 - 09:55 PM, said:

It's a coin-toss whether IS TCs come in and I'm not sure I'd reduce the range even if they do.

Functionally, they're identical
The rule is for every 4 tons of guns, an IS TC needs an extra ton (up to 7), but it's 5 for Clams
But, we don't have that rule for MWO


To implement them, you've just got to allow the IS flag, letting them mount TCs

[Metus regem]

1453 R, on 16 January 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

The real kicker will be some of the crap the Sphere can get with this update, though. Heavy PPCs, if they come online, would give the Sphere a good counter to a lot of Clan front-loaded nonsense like Summoner-tarts, and Snub PPCs would equally be a pretty violent option if adjusted for MWO damage levels. The heavy gauss is super limited in its applications, yeah, but it's also a 25-muthafuggin-damage god cannon. To say nothing of what MRMs could do (provided hitreg is kind to them).

There will still be balance problems, a'course, but I'm thinking Clanz will be much less OP when all of, or even just some of, this crap hits.

As strong as the HGR is a point balnk range, it does have damage fall off built into it...

25/20/10 @ 180m/360/600
Weight of 18t and 11 crits


Personally I would be more concerned about the iHGR (Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle)

22 @ 570m
Weight of 20t and 11 crtis.

Both get 4 shots/ton in TT, so in MWO it's likely to get between 6 and 8 shots/ton, so as far as I can see it in most cases the iHGR more or less obsoletes the AC/20 as far as MWO would be concerned, better range, more damage and less heat. I can really see it taking a mech with limited Ballistic hard points like the Atlas and turning it from a short range brawler to a mid range skerimisher due to the range it would gain by using the iHGR, MRM's and ERML's.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 January 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

Here's an updated table with some tweaks, mostly to the isERLL, isBLC, and cHSL. Also added max range numbers, but they do not count toward the score.

ERLL: That looks better, roughly the same HPS as the LL for much worse DPS, which is a fair tradeoff for the range increase, and makes the LL more attractive for mid-range brawling.

MXPL: Still feel it's not worth the range increase over the MPL, that 1DPH is brutal considering the cMPL gets 2 more damage and still have much more efficient DPH, although I'm willing to go along with it to see if I can be proven wrong

LXPL: Much better, the DPH now isn't so painful now along with the lower cooldown vs. the LPL

HSL: That heat still seems too low given the insane damage, although again I need to bear in mind that range...

BLC: Still don't know about this one, you increased the damage even further, making it more like 2LLs for one ton lighter but worse burn. I would lower the damage and DPH for burn time, since in lore its advantage over bringing 2LL is that it has better accuracy, but terrible heat efficiency.

I would try to go with 14 damage at 12-13 heat and trade it up for as much burn-time as you can, while that makes it closer to the LPL, the LPL is still a more close-range-optimized weapon with crit-seeking properties. The BLC ends up as a very high damage/tick weapon for that tonnage.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 16 January 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

so as far as I can see it in most cases the iHGR more or less obsoletes the AC/20 as far as MWO would be concerned, better range, more damage and less heat.

I wouldn't say that, the fact the AC20 can be mounted with an LFE in MWO (so long as MWO doens't suddenly allow crit splitting) on top of the massive 6 ton difference (plus the ammo difference) is a pretty large difference. Then of course there is the difference in mechanics (charge-up on the iHGR and required mounting within the torso). Not that the AC20 couldn't stand to be buffed since it has been in a sad state for a bit now but.

[Mcgral18]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 January 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

Not that the AC20 couldn't stand to be buffed since it has been in a sad state for a bit now but.

I'd say the UACs can remain bowling ball launchers, while the normal AC variants get their old (or greater) velocity.

I still want to see a 1200M/s cAC20

[Gentleman Reaper]

Metus regem, on 16 January 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

As strong as the HGR is a point balnk range, it does have damage fall off built into it...

25/20/10 @ 180m/360/600
Weight of 18t and 11 crits


Personally I would be more concerned about the iHGR (Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle)

22 @ 570m
Weight of 20t and 11 crtis.

Both get 4 shots/ton in TT, so in MWO it's likely to get between 6 and 8 shots/ton, so as far as I can see it in most cases the iHGR more or less obsoletes the AC/20 as far as MWO would be concerned, better range, more damage and less heat. I can really see it taking a mech with limited Ballistic hard points like the Atlas and turning it from a short range brawler to a mid range skerimisher due to the range it would gain by using the iHGR, MRM's and ERML's.

Heavy Gauss Rifle (IS):
Mass: 18 tons
Slots: 11
Item health: 10
Explode on destruction: Yes
Explosion damage: 30
Charge to fire: disabled
Damage: 25
Cooldown: 6
DPS: 4.17
Heat: 2
Speed: 950
Optimal range: 360 meters
Max range: 1080 meters
Ammo per ton: 8

My version put it at much less optimal range, although with no charge (I want only the Clan Gauss to have charge). While the lack of charge does make it feel more like a heat-less AC/25, that's what you get for 18 tons and a torso-mount limit, although I'm considering giving it a charge-up, but the GR and LGR shouldn't have it.

[Metus regem]

Gentleman Reaper, on 16 January 2017 - 09:45 AM, said:

Heavy Gauss Rifle (IS):
Mass: 18 tons
Slots: 11
Item health: 10
Explode on destruction: Yes
Explosion damage: 30
Charge to fire: disabled
Damage: 25
Cooldown: 6
DPS: 4.17
Heat: 2
Speed: 950
Optimal range: 360 meters
Max range: 1080 meters
Ammo per ton: 8

My version put it at much less optimal range, although with no charge (I want only the Clan Gauss to have charge). While the lack of charge does make it feel more like a heat-less AC/25, that's what you get for 18 tons and a torso-mount limit, although I'm considering giving it a charge-up, but the GR and LGR shouldn't have it.

While I appreciate your attempt to redo it, PGI has shown to be rather reluctant to really mess with weapon stats from TT, yes they have done it, but only after they find something is too strong, through how ever it is they find it too strong or too hot, and in the rare case not hot enough.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Metus regem, on 16 January 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

While I appreciate your attempt to redo it, PGI has shown to be rather reluctant to really mess with weapon stats from TT, yes they have done it, but only after they find something is too strong, through how ever it is they find it too strong or too hot, and in the rare case not hot enough.

OK, I see I made a mistake with the range profile, I'll remake mine for longer range.

[Weepy Wanebow]

Andi Nagasia, on 12 July 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

I-PPC
Improved Particle Projector Cannon is an Improved Lighter C-PPC,
which acts like as a Normal PPC but for Clan, at 6Tons 2Crits like Clan ERPPCs,
(as their is no Sarna Page for the I-PPC(Table from CGL's, Interstellar Operations)

(I-PPCs (LosTech2822)(ReintroducedTech3060)=,

I think its funny that you literally included a screen capture of interstellar operations but chose to organize yoir information like this. You literally have the book with all the dates and info you need


Lets assume that the jump date is going to be 3060 exactly.

Lets assume that they will keep the current trend of only having official production tech in the game and not experimental tech (because if they did there would already be more weapons and such available).

With that in mind your actual list of whats coming looks like this

IS: all current IS versions of 3053 available clan weapons, light gauss, MRMs, and TSM.

Clan: heavy lasers, atm, micro pulse laser, er micro laser, improved clan ppc, light machine gun, heavy machine gun....

No light engine, no heavy gauss, yeah. Mostly not a lot of that stuff. Now if they include experimental tech then the list of things available is actually significantly bigger then what you have listed here.....


Xxl engines, xl gyros, hardened armor, reflective armor, all sorts of IS goodies. Even a few clan goodies like streak LRM and chemical lasers......but yeah, thats only if they also include experimental tech or they are saying a soft...very soft 3060 as most of your list didn't hit general production until 3061 or after.

Also not because it is related to your lost but in general reply to people bemoaning that cannons and rocket launchers arent in the game already.......

Cannons are outdated primitive tech that really only say use with pirates and in the periphery. Their damge/range/weight/ammo per ton ratio is garbage and they are outclasses by currently available ballistics weapons in nearly every way. Outside of someone choosing a super terrible option just "because" there is no reason to introduce them now.

Rocket launchers.....are one shot people. They are used as weight fillers because the base TT game didn't have half tons of ammo. The rocket launchers10 weighs .5 tons, it shoots unguided nontargeted missles at just beyond SRM range. And honestly, again you never saw these on anything outside the periphery until the "dark ages" and the reintroduction of primitive tech as a viable option because of difficulties obtaining consistent regular tech.

Neither needs to be in the game because 1)its a waste of development time and 2) they will then be included in supply catches which is poopjohn.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Gentleman Reaper, on 16 January 2017 - 10:00 AM, said:

OK, I see I made a mistake with the range profile, I'll remake mine for longer range.

Or actually, it's very difficult to translate the HGR into MWO. In lore, the weapon starts its range drop-off at 180 meters, but keeps going until 600 meters. Since MWO uses the max TT range as the optimal range, with the max range being double that, this means the HGR should start its drop-off at 360 meters and go till 1200 meters, so my version is technically lore-accurate.

Also I had forgotten to update some aspects like the velocity due to a prior discussion.

Edited by Gentleman Reaper, 16 January 2017 - 10:09 AM.