460 replies to this topic

[Throat Punch]

LordKnightFandragon, on 13 July 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

Clans OP!!

-every IS player ever.

Welllllll.....Clans are OP in the TT and in lore so this is technically true.

[SaltBeef]

Bring on the whining hordes! Since talk of Balance changes I suspect we will continue to see endless Clans are OP cry threads just like this one. 1 800 dial a whah!

[Kristov Kerensky]

Prosperity, that 3 tons is balanced by the Clan Mech designs, and I don't just means Omnis. High mounted Gauss aren't common among the Clan Mechs, only the EBJ can do a high mounted Gauss, singular, and that really isn't all THAT high, it's lower than the IS high mounted Gauss points. The Hunchback IIC will be the first Clan Mech that actually allows 2 high mounted Gauss for the Clans, while the IS has HOW many Mechs that allow 2 already?

And if you, or anyone else, honestly think that isn't really important, you are either lying or woefully ignorant on how MWO game mechanics work and the value of high mounted weapons. It's why PGI is actually looking at hardpoint placement on the Mech chassis in their internal BV system for the balance redo, it is THAT important due to the game mechanics.

LordKnightFandragon, on 13 July 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

Clans OP!!

-every IS player ever.

Not EVERY IS player, please, keep in mind some of us IS players don't think Clan Tech is OP, we think it's UP in most cases and have asked for it to be unnerfed

Burktross, on 13 July 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

Did you miss the Battlevalue balancing rules for TT?

Did you miss that BV worked SO well they created BV2, and before they even completed BV2 they realized it wouldn't work either and started BV3? And realized BV3 wouldn't work and stopped work on it totally and just went with BV2 because why bother? Guess so.

[Zaccheus]

This is why we can't have nice things.

People need to stop crying for nerfs. This is why I prefer single player games, whiners can't ruin it. How I long for MW 3 & 4 and their mercenaries games. Jesus some one just kick start a reasonable SP mechwarrior, elite, and or wing commander. Multiplayer only is ruining everything that was good in this world.

[Andi Nagasia]

but IIC Mechs are Coming so Clan Needs Nerfs NOW!!!
(Note- IIC mechs are out in Dec15, or just over 5 months)

[Mystere]

Prosperity Park, on 13 July 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

The Clan Gauss Rifle weighs 3 tons less than the IS version. What are the balancing factors used to compensate for this?

Does it have a slower charge-up time? No.
Does it have a slower recycle time? No.
Shorter range? Less damage? No. No.
Does it take up more slots? No, opposite, it takes up fewer slots.
Does it explode more easily? No; in fact Clanners get 0-tonnage CASE on every arm and torso section to boot.
Does it cause more internal damage when it explodes? No.


Does it do anything at all that balances the 3 fewer tons and 1 fewer slot? No.

When can we expect a change to this situation?

(This is not an IS player whining, this is a video gamer scratching his head in wonder)

Considering you did not offer your own solutions, I accuse you of incitement.

[MechaBattler]

From what I heard in the Townhall where Russ discussed the overhaul. They are going to balance around hardpoints, hardpoint location, and other factors. Which I think is smart. But I also think they should balance every piece of opposing tech against each other. Otherwise the system will be skewed by that.

[MischiefSC]

Reduced weight and space is what the locked equipment is there to balance and it does a decent job. There are some outliers but the lower weight and reduced space is less relevant when you can't exploit it by shuffling the engine around.

The bigger issue is CXL. That doesn't have a balance currently; it's just flat out superior. Weapons are.... meh. Passable in a typical PGI 'it's broken, so I'm introducing something broken in the other direction to offset it' sort of way. I cringe to think of these guys on a home improvement project.

'Honey, the kitchen faucet s broken, I can't run water or do dishes and such.'

'No problem! I've run a firehose in from the hydrant outside! We can no longer close the window and it can only be toggled full-on and full-off. I suspect at some point we'll be arrested for it too. PROBLEM SOLVED!'

'Can't you just.... fix the faucet?'

'What do you mean? THAT IS FIXED. BETTER THAN BEFORE.'

That's the entire MW:O development process in a nut shell.

[Burktross]

Kristov Kerensky, on 13 July 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

Prosperity, that 3 tons is balanced by the Clan Mech designs, and I don't just means Omnis. High mounted Gauss aren't common among the Clan Mechs, only the EBJ can do a high mounted Gauss, singular, and that really isn't all THAT high, it's lower than the IS high mounted Gauss points. The Hunchback IIC will be the first Clan Mech that actually allows 2 high mounted Gauss for the Clans, while the IS has HOW many Mechs that allow 2 already?

And if you, or anyone else, honestly think that isn't really important, you are either lying or woefully ignorant on how MWO game mechanics work and the value of high mounted weapons. It's why PGI is actually looking at hardpoint placement on the Mech chassis in their internal BV system for the balance redo, it is THAT important due to the game mechanics.



Not EVERY IS player, please, keep in mind some of us IS players don't think Clan Tech is OP, we think it's UP in most cases and have asked for it to be unnerfed



Did you miss that BV worked SO well they created BV2, and before they even completed BV2 they realized it wouldn't work either and started BV3? And realized BV3 wouldn't work and stopped work on it totally and just went with BV2 because why bother? Guess so.

No system is perfect, but it was better than, "clans are OP deal with it scrublord lol"

[MischiefSC]

Not only were Clans OP but the developers said they were a bad idea and badly introduced at several cons afterward. They largely killed the franchise, that's why every release since as both nerfed the Clans and buffed the IS to make them even. It's a bad idea and a bad system for PvP. Something like the Clans only works in PvE - you're either the player playing against an OP AI but winning because the AI is broken (the lore answer) or you're the Clans burning through hordes of inferior AI scrubs because being a Mary Sue is awesome (the PC game version after the Crescent Hawk series).

What we have is.... an attempt to compromise while still making Clan mechs seem OP enough to drive people to pay piles of money for them with the unspoken idea that they'll be stupidly OP for a while after release then nerfed when they come out for cbills while simultaneously a new batch of OP Clan mechs is out for cash only.

That's not be being a cynic; that's the actual current business model. IS packs released pre-gimped and aimed directly at the nostalgia market.

[Drasari]

They have nerfed every other piece of clan tech, can you just let that one be? mmk? ok.

[MischiefSC]

Drasari, on 13 July 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

They have nerfed every other piece of clan tech, can you just let that one be? mmk? ok.

I love the mentality of this by the way.

'We started out with everything OP. That was the whole concept; we bought it for a pile of cash and had flat out better stuff. Now they're balancing it and it's not OP. We just have this one last flat out OP thing, why can't you guys JUST LET US HAVE OUR OP STUFF IN PEACE!'

Not that I even consider it OP - due to slot/weight designs on Clan mechs only the Dire Wolf can really take advantage of it.

Still, the mentality sums up the whole IS/Clan thing from day 1.

[Ultimax]

Kain Demos, on 13 July 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

"Ballistic Cooldown" quirks are pretty common and last I checked Gauss Rilfes are ballistic weapons.

You mean like the +20% ballistic CD a Warhawk can get for Gauss that weighs 3 tons less per gun?


For the record that's more than any Jager can get, more than any Cataphract and more than any King Crab - while using dual Gauss.


I'm not saying the WHK is OP, far from it, but I just wanted to stop by and point out how ridiculous trying to use quirks as an excuse for being able to save 3 tons per Gauss.

[bad arcade kitty]

its main drawback - clan fixed engines, clan fixed upgrades and clan fixed armor/structure

there is a reason why even timber cannot run double gauss... despite it's 3 tons lighter per cannon
meanwhile jagermech can

[Havyek]

Judging by the fact that when I play Clans, I hear how much Clans are OP, and when I play IS, I hear how much IS is OP, I've determined the following:
'Mechs are OP. Nerf 'Mechs.

[Aiden Skye]

may I ask what from which rock do all these trolls keep coming?

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Ultimatum X, on 13 July 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

You mean like the +20% ballistic CD a Warhawk can get for Gauss that weighs 3 tons less per gun?


For the record that's more than any Jager can get, more than any Cataphract and more than any King Crab - while using dual Gauss.


I'm not saying the WHK is OP, far from it, but I just wanted to stop by and point out how ridiculous trying to use quirks as an excuse for being able to save 3 tons per Gauss.

The point related to quirks + high weapons mounts. Not that this makes the IS stronger than clan gauss wise but rather that is how the game is balanced.

[Zordicron]

Spreadsheet warriors assemble!

This debate is mostly off base and pointless, UNTIL we see mixed loadouts/tech.

As others have said, clan mechs as a whole vs IS mechs as a whole, clammers aren't really OP, I kill them fine every day in mechs that are in the rescaling pole of all things.

IF we see mix tech, then, just like all previous MW titles, the majority of IS tech will get discarded for the clammer version. WHy mount an IS ML when you can put a clammer ERSL on? Why a IS gauss over a clammer one? Why put any IS LRM on vs a clammer one, I mean look at the tonnage!

If they want to allow mix tech some time, they will have to allow variations on the IS tech(manufacturers) and just make a whole slug of variable stats so people can customize. In that situation, clammer versions would just be another variant in the pile.

[Ultimax]

Blueduck, on 13 July 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

The point related to quirks + high weapons mounts. Not that this makes the IS stronger than clan gauss wise but rather that is how the game is balanced.

Neither the Cataphract nor King Crab have high ballistic mounts.


The Jager does, but with Dual Gauss it goes about WHK speed with IS XL and big STs that any good player can it.

[Kain Demos]

Ultimatum X, on 13 July 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

You mean like the +20% ballistic CD a Warhawk can get for Gauss that weighs 3 tons less per gun?


For the record that's more than any Jager can get, more than any Cataphract and more than any King Crab - while using dual Gauss.


I'm not saying the WHK is OP, far from it, but I just wanted to stop by and point out how ridiculous trying to use quirks as an excuse for being able to save 3 tons per Gauss.

Nice 20 DHS you are stuck with on the WHK even if you choose to run dual gauss.

Eldagore, on 13 July 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

Spreadsheet warriors assemble!

This debate is mostly off base and pointless, UNTIL we see mixed loadouts/tech.

As others have said, clan mechs as a whole vs IS mechs as a whole, clammers aren't really OP, I kill them fine every day in mechs that are in the rescaling pole of all things.

IF we see mix tech, then, just like all previous MW titles, the majority of IS tech will get discarded for the clammer version. WHy mount an IS ML when you can put a clammer ERSL on? Why a IS gauss over a clammer one? Why put any IS LRM on vs a clammer one, I mean look at the tonnage!

If they want to allow mix tech some time, they will have to allow variations on the IS tech(manufacturers) and just make a whole slug of variable stats so people can customize. In that situation, clammer versions would just be another variant in the pile.

Honestly at this point I wish they do just relax the construction rules to "everything goes for everything" and flush all the quirks because maybe the cry-hards would finally STFU then.

THen I sit and think about any forums for any game and how they are all full of people complaining about everything under the sun and I realize they will never STFU.

Edited by Kain Demos, 13 July 2015 - 04:54 PM.