96 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Andi Nagasia, on 13 July 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

thats why im sugesting this, because i think IS is ok where it is,
but the C-ER-PPC should do 15PP Damage, as per Game Play and Lore,
having a 6 Second Cool-down gives it the same DPS as IS PPCs,

1. IS ERPPC is not fine where it is, and a lot of people will agree with me on that point. When comes to long range weapons, FLD > cooldown. Your suggestion will make CERPPC further better than the ERPPC.

2. Your same DPS argument does not fly because the person firing IS ERPPC will overheat faster than CERPPC player while doing same DPS--all the while carrying heavier and bulkier version! IS ERPPC will need lower heat to compensate for that, at the least.

3. By your balance, Clan player with CERPPC will only have to peek twice to do 30 PPFLD damage, while IS player will have to peek thrice to do 30 PPFLD with IS ERPPC. That's 33% less exposure for the Clan pilot--further making the Clan option more attractive.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 July 2015 - 10:30 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Eider, on 13 July 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

Its a buff thread when you are clearly buffing, 6 sec cooldown? who cares most poke anyway and again to avoid overheat they would just cycle. You think ppcs with 10/10 are good? they have a huge disadvantage of doing no damage until after 90m. As for current clan options? Still a 12.5 thanks to splash.

first off this 6 second Cool-down would make C-ER-PPC Brawling very dificult,

second even if you Cycle your weapons the Normal heat is still their and its still possible to over Heat,
its also less effective as the target has time to move away or behind cover, assuming your poking,

Third i do think 10/10 PPCs are Great, they Fit my PlayStyle and i would love them on my ADR,
Even with the +1Ton +1Crit that they have more, they would still amazing for the way i play,

Finally 12.5 Damage? thats Still not 12.5 Damage to one location,
its 10 Damage and 2.5 to two other Locations, if it hits an Arm or Leg, than its only 12.5 Total,
IS-PPCs(2.5DPS)=or=C-ER-PPC(Torso)(3.75DPS(hits3parts)=or=C-ER-PPC(Arm)(3.12DPS(hits2parts),
also due to all Clan Energy weapons being hotter than their IS Counter parts you cant Fire PPC+Lasers too well,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 13 July 2015 - 07:31 PM.

[Eider]

Andi Nagasia, on 13 July 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

first off this 6 second Cool-down would make C-ER-PPC Brawling very dificult,

second even if you Cycle your weapons the Normal heat is still their and its still possible to over Heat,
its also less effective as the target has time to move away or behind cover, assuming your poking,

Third i do think 10/10 PPCs are Great, they Fit my PlayStyle and i would love them on my ADR,
Even with the +1Ton +1Crit that they have more, they would still amazing for the way i play,

Finally 12.5 Damage? thats Still not 12.5 Damage to one location,
its 10 Damage and 2.5 to two other Locations, if it hits an Arm or Leg, than its only 12.5 Total,
IS-PPCs(2.5DPS)=or=C-ER-PPC(Torso)(3.75DPS(hits3parts)=or=C-ER-PPC(Arm)(3.12DPS(hits2parts),
also due to all Clan Energy weapons being hotter than their IS Counter parts you cant Fire PPC+Lasers too well,

Brawl? who says they would brawl? i could still see that as useful however at close ranges. Not where the issue is at.
By cycle weapons i dont just mean the erppc, clans have very light weapons they could switch to others while its on cooldown and use it as a burst. That was part of my guass example as guass causes no heat so they would switch to those while cooldown. Finally yes its not 12.5 direct but 10 plus the 2.5 still better than the 10 from IS. By a factor of 2.5. Finally now that the adr can remove the head laser not a big deal to mount them.

[Andi Nagasia]

@Eider
listen im not saying that all PPCs are in a good Place,
but im trying to come up with Solutions to help with what we should have,
some may not agree with me, but i do feel C-ER-PPC should have 15PP Damage,

if that means that IS-ER-PPCs need a Buff than im ok with that,
this isnt about Clans PPCs getting Stronger and Keeping IS where they are,
thats not why i made this Topic, i made this Topic to Talk 15PP Damage C-ER-PPCs,

[Eider]

Still not a good idea, lets say you do buff them. TTK will go down even with cooldowns, game is heavy on the burst over dps. Add more burst yes people will die faster.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Alistair Winter, on 13 July 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

I really think longer cooldowns for the sniper weapons in the game would be good for the game overall. Gauss rifle and ER PPC specifically. ER PPC shouldn't be a straight upgrade of the PPC at the cost of heat, as I see it. It should be a different animal. More range, more projectile speed, but longer cooldown. Great for sniping, not so great for brawling. The PPC should be better for mid-range combat, so it should have shorter cooldown.

I'd like to see ERPPC+Gauss mechs struggle even more in a brawl than they do now

This, Honestly could remove the Gauss charge but keep its lengthy cool down. Ive always thought that ER ppcs fired too fast considering how much damage they could do in one salvo. Id be all for reduced rate of fire but with 15 damage...

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd adjust the splash first before going full FLD to a single component while also extending the cooldown to at least 5 seconds.

So, I'd like to first look at is using one of these:
10.0 / 3.0 / 2.0
10.0 / 3.5 / 1.5
10.0 / 4.0 / 1.0
10.0 / 4.5 / 0.5

Since there are times that second arc goes into the aether, you're only losing 0.5 to 2 points of damage instead of losing 2.5 and still applying 10 damage to the intended spot.

[Khobai]

Quote

Clan ERPPCs should have a longer cooldown and do 15 damage

nope they shouldnt. clan weapons need to do less pinpoint damage to keep them balanced. also the problem with the erppc isnt damage but rather heat. if anything it needs its heat reduced (same with IS ERPPCs).

clan gauss also should not do 15 damage to one location. since it weighs 3 tons less than IS gauss with no downside.

clan weapons need their superior range and lower weight balanced by having less pinpoint damage capability. either with higher burn times, burst fire, ripple fire, or splash damage mechanics...

that includes clan gauss, which is currently abused, because it doesnt follow the same pattern as other clan weapons because it lacks a mechanic that disperses its damage across multiple locations.

Edited by Khobai, 14 July 2015 - 01:39 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mister Blastman, on 13 July 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

I'm fine with 15 pinpoint damage if they have a slightly longer cool down. That's what sniper weapons should be like. Big damage. Big risk if you miss. Low usefulness if the enemy gets close.

Why is everything with long range thought of as a sniper weapon? Clanners as a rule don;t try to kill without a written invitation to the dance! And for decades I used Gauss as a all around beat stick! PPCs and their ER counterparts as well.

Khobai, on 14 July 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

nope they shouldnt.

clan gauss also should not do 15 damage to one location. since it weighs 3 tons less than IS gauss with no downside.

clan weapons need their superior range and lower weight balanced by having less pinpoint damage capability. either with higher burn times, burst fire, ripple fire, or splash damage mechanics...

that includes clan gauss, which is currently abused, because it doesnt follow the same pattern as other clan weapons because it lacks a mechanic that disperses its damage across multiple locations.

It is a melon shaped Slug! There is little room for splash damage from a slug flying at mach5! It'll punch a hole like nobody's business though.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 July 2015 - 01:38 AM.

[Ace Selin]

No, we certainly don't want to give Assault mechs easy 60 point alphas & the Clan ERPPC does enough damage 10+2.5+2.5 as it is already, in fact if you suggested Clan ERPPC be changed to do only 10 damage many would believe that would be ok.

Edited by Ace Selin, 14 July 2015 - 02:03 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ace Selin, on 14 July 2015 - 02:00 AM, said:

No, we certainly don't want to give Assault mechs easy 60 point alphas & the Clan ERPPC does enough damage 10+2.5+2.5 as it is already, in fact if you suggested Clan ERPPC be changed to do only 10 damage many would believe that would be ok.

Speak for yourself. I love having a 60+ point alpha in my Atlas-S. And with it mixed with DoT and RNG damage, most folks don't complain while I pound them into scrap!

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 July 2015 - 02:08 AM, said:

Speak for yourself. I love having a 60+ point alpha in my Atlas-S. And with it mixed with DoT and RNG damage, most folks don't complain while I pound them into scrap!

Ace was talking about PPFLD.

Atlas cannot carry 4 CERPPCs (with 15 damage each as the OP suggested) so you point is moot. In fact, the largest PPFLD it can carry is not more than 40, with AC20 + 2 ER/PPCs.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 July 2015 - 02:35 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 14 July 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

Ace was talking about PPFLD.

Atlas cannot carry 4 CERPPCs (with 15 damage each as the OP suggested) so you point is moot. In fact, the largest PPFLD it can carry is not more than 50, with AC20 + 2 ER/PPCs.

So we just need to remove the Pin Point and we can go back to having nice things!

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 July 2015 - 02:31 AM, said:

So we just need to remove the Pin Point and we can go back to having nice things!

That, or remove the FLD from ER/PPCs. Otherwise, it is hard to buff the ER/PPCs to relevance.

Personally I wish PGI to seriously consider Sized Hardpoints.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 July 2015 - 02:35 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 14 July 2015 - 02:34 AM, said:

That, or remove the FLD from ER/PPCs. Otherwise, it is hard to buff the ER/PPCs to relevance.

Personally I wish PGI to seriously consider Sized Hardpoints.

Nope. Not a fan of removing FLD. Not everybody like taking time killing their opponents.

[Widowmaker1981]

I could see C-ERPPCs with 15 PP dmg, if:

Cooldown increased to 6s
Ghost Heat Limit reduced to 1
and
IS-ERPPC heat reduced to 12.5

I can NEVER see Gauss with no chargeup being workable. If Gauss had no charge id never run a mech that couldn't mount at least one ever again. I think IS ERPPC heat should be reduced regardless, they are terribad weapons right now.

[Weeny Machine]

Alistair Winter, on 13 July 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

I really think longer cooldowns for the sniper weapons in the game would be good for the game overall. Gauss rifle and ER PPC specifically. ER PPC shouldn't be a straight upgrade of the PPC at the cost of heat, as I see it. It should be a different animal. More range, more projectile speed, but longer cooldown. Great for sniping, not so great for brawling. The PPC should be better for mid-range combat, so it should have shorter cooldown.

I'd like to see ERPPC+Gauss mechs struggle even more in a brawl than they do now

The problem with the regular PPC is that a lower CD won't help much because you will overheat still really quickly.
Secondly it has the minimum range which means it makes it an even lousier mid-range weapon because the enemy is quickly in your minimum range.

Imo, the minimum range should be change to reduced damage.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 14 July 2015 - 04:35 AM.

[Lugh]

Andi Nagasia, on 13 July 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

@Alistair Winter
I agree, the Gauss Charge takes abit away from its Brawling potential,
i think this would give the C-ER-PPC a good Trade and allow for True C-ER-PPCs,

I've found the opposite. Less firing at bad times due to the ability to hold the shot if you don't like where you are at the end of the charge up.

[Mister Blastman]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 July 2015 - 01:40 AM, said:

Why is everything with long range thought of as a sniper weapon? Clanners as a rule don;t try to kill without a written invitation to the dance! And for decades I used Gauss as a all around beat stick! PPCs and their ER counterparts as well.

Because. Balance™.

[Ultimax]

El Bandito, on 13 July 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

What about IS ERPPC? What does is it show for its 1 ton more weight and 1 slot more space?

It shows you chose the wrong faction you freebirth scrublord peasant!


However, in our magnanimity we will reduce the heat of your lasers with a corresponding reduction of range.

So your LLAS will only cost a mere 5 heat to fire, the range will become reduced to 325m.


This will give you a clear minor advantage once you manage to cross the field against our endless rows of massive pinpoint alpha sniper god-mechs.