945 replies to this topic

[East Indy]

The range change is a good one. Currently, ECM coverage is inadvertent and occurs if a team is even loosely moving together.

I'd prefer to see the "cloak" effect on the carrier 'Mech only, and teammates be targetable but after a prolonged lock-on time, and produce no info. Reason being, when conditions are right, players can lock missiles on ECM-shielded targets after considerable delays — which isn't ideal but a heck of a lot more interesting gameplay. Players should rely on cover and suppressing/harassing LRMs instead of nullifying them with sufficient ECM 'Mechs and skilled players.

Edit: Re: the above post, you need to reduce Clan Streak range to IS, especially if it's going to be awhile if/before you stagger fire. The visual comparison you just showed us? 360-390 meters is a loooong way for 30 missiles, man.

Edited by East Indy, 15 July 2015 - 04:13 PM.

[Pjwned]

I expected the jesus box functionality to be removed, not just DURF SLURP SHORTER RANGE.

This barely does anything to ECM.

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 July 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

I am fine with an ECM range decrease, even down to 60meters. What I don't want you guys to get any funny ideas about is getting rid of it's ability to hide my dorito at long range, and interfering with lock on systems.

I use ECM FIRST to protect MYSELF from being highlighted, and missile locked. Sharing it with friends is just a bonus that I use out of curtousy; take that away before you take away my missile defense system.

If you want a missile defense system then use AMS and stop whining about your crutch potentially being taken away.

Edited by Pjwned, 15 July 2015 - 04:21 PM.

[Wolf Clearwater]

I think the change is a good one, but the Clan streak boats will definitely need something to keep them in line. Looking and the Skill Dog and Skill Crow here.

[1453 R]

The problem with a lot of this ‘nerf it into the ground!’ stuff people are going on about in here is that while the functionality of ECM, as it currently exists, is too much for a one-ton-one-crit piece of gear (shut up you damn dirty Spheroids )…the effects it gives are nonetheless effects which the game should have available.

Frankly, if Piranha does what a lot of people have semi-suggested and splits ECM into g-ECM (counters advanced electronics), Angel ECM (counters advanced electronics over a wide area), stealth armor and/or null-sig (eliminates electronic detection)? Well a’ight then – but when, and I do mean when, not if, I take SA and Angel ECM on a ‘Mech? I had best be the next best thing to Solid Snake. You don’t get to lock on to me ever, and my 180-degree field of screw-your-BAPS will still cover my allies. Hell, let me go in for the Chameleon LPS while I’m at it!

Be careful what you wish for, people. I know that what you’re actually asking for, when you raise a hue and cry about how ECM should be split into a bunch of other stealth systems with appropriate drawbacks, is “I want any/all ability the game offers my enemies to not get shot in a random facederp brawl to be removed! Down with all stealth/defense/strategy/skill!”…but if you request ECM be broken out into a half-dozen more intensive stealth systems, then you’d best be prepared for nefarious MechAssassins to install all of those systems in their ‘Mechs and then proceed to ghost-mode you into oblivion.

Do not even for a second think I won’t.

EDIT::

AlphaStruck, on 15 July 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

...AMS should be the PRIMARY anti missle defense...

AMS would actually need to defend against missiles first. Currently you need at least 2 equipped to make any real impact on anything but Mad Doge LRM-5 spammers.

Edited by 1453 R, 15 July 2015 - 04:16 PM.

[Zarathustrah]

Welcome to the next lrmpocalypse and be prepared to bow to the streak overlords. Huzzah, PGI would rather make it easier for players to stop using their hands to play and let the game do all the aiming. No love for the comp scene though....no love at all.

[GoodTry]

PLEASE don't change the BAP counter-ECM range. It has nothing to do with the ECM bubble range. BAP is perfectly balanced as it is - it is just good enough that some will take it for its weight, but it is not so good that everyone feels like they have to take it. Changing the BAP ranges will just nerf BAP.

The ECM bubble determines how many enemies are covered. BAP range determines how far away you can counter a single enemy ECM. They are totally different things, and there is no reason to nerf BAP just because you are changing the size of the ECM bubble.

Please reconsider.

Edit: For the record, I think that the ECM changes make sense.

Edited by GoodTry, 15 July 2015 - 04:23 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

Tarogato, on 15 July 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

Not looking forward to the indirect buff it gives to cStreaks, however. Urggh those things are cheesy.

are you kidding? read my previous posts, the bap changes can very seriously hurt streakboats and if they don't touch bap/remake it a bit to keep the current lock range, this ecm nerf won't change streakboats much except making it harder to completely negate them with 2 ecm mechs... consider the abundance of the new ecm lights and mediums though

[Rick Rollington]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 July 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

I agree with this. One of the problems with how locks are currently implemented in MWO is that everybody has a C3 computer, that is to say, everybody can share lock on information. If we treat lock sharing as a C3 computer and allow ECM to counter it then I am totally fine with LRM-boats being able to lock onto me while ECm is up; just so long as they have line of sight.

Wrong. Mechs in MWO do NOT have C3. C3 was an advanced targeting system that gave the user bonuses if friendlies were close to the target. Target sharing is a feature of BASIC SENSORS, which all mechs carry. If the Inner Sphere wants a Clan TC equivalent, C3 would be the way to do it, with each mech in the network increasing the bonuses.

But C3 is NOT in game at the moment.

[bad arcade kitty]

Zarathustrah, on 15 July 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

Welcome to the next lrmpocalypse and be prepared to bow to the streak overlords. Huzzah, PGI would rather make it easier for players to stop using their hands to play and let the game do all the aiming. No love for the comp scene though....no love at all.

see above

[R 13]

AlphaStruck, on 15 July 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Good that you realize ECM is WAY overdone now but bad in your 1D thinking. Just do what weve asked for.

Stop the ROCK, PAPER, SCISSORS effect in every part of the game.

ECM blocks all locks outside 600m like it functions now. Inside 600m ECM mechs show on radar but require a 2x (placeholder time) lock time. A second ECM next to target would triple lock times.

BAP equiped mechs would lock ECM mechs at 800m.

TAG functions as it does now.

NARC shows target on radar and cancels its ECM effect as it does now. 3x lock time if NARC'd mech is under another ECM field.

AMS should be the PRIMARY anti missle defense. ECM should be the way to make a LRM boats life a little harder. Making the ECM a perfect missle defense was going to come back to bite us the players, nothing else could happen.

I would also be totally on board for a graduated approach that "faded" the ECM effect as the targetting mech got closer/further as well as other mechs under the bubble getting closer/further from the ECM source. Current approach is too black & white.

Rick Rollington, on 15 July 2015 - 04:21 PM, said:

Wrong. Mechs in MWO do NOT have C3. C3 was an advanced targeting system that gave the user bonuses if friendlies were close to the target. Target sharing is a feature of BASIC SENSORS, which all mechs carry. If the Inner Sphere wants a Clan TC equivalent, C3 would be the way to do it, with each mech in the network increasing the bonuses.

But C3 is NOT in game at the moment.

Technically true. Just re-read this before my own post. C3 actually has no impact on LRMs what-so-ever (aside from removing artemis/NARC bonus).

[Alistair Winter]

Tarogato, on 15 July 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

I look forward to the potential this has to shake up the meta. Especially since it's an indirect buff to LRMs, which are presently relegated to trash tier.

Not looking forward to the indirect buff it gives to cStreaks, however. Urggh those things are cheesy.

Agreed 100%. The Streakcrows are going to be all over the place, unless PGI handles this correctly.

[Void Angel]

ReapersGuise, on 15 July 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

And the missiles will blot out the sky...I use to complain about ecm, now I don't think there is enough of it out there all this will do will bring out more skilless lrm 5 spammers...sigh

Actually, you just have to raise your Elo to get away from LRM spammers, trust me. I'm not telling you to "get good," or anything asinine like that; but while I do run into LRM users from time to time, they're very rare - and they often lose.

PS: The issue with Clan Streaks is simply scale - and like LRMs it's a problem with the weapon system itself, not ECM per se.

[Alistair Winter]

Oh, and I almost forgot to say this.

Paul, if you're revamping the whole ECM and BAP functionality...

... please implement Active / Passive radar while you're at it!!

[bad arcade kitty]

Alistair Winter, on 15 July 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

Agreed 100%. The Streakcrows are going to be all over the place, unless PGI handles this correctly.

alistair... at least you should understand the mechanics of ecm, you are a seasoned player
i'm sorry but it's a very silly thing to think that this ecm nerf buffs streaks
it buffs lrms, it either barely affects streaks if they don't nerf bap or seriously nerf streaks if they touch bap

see this http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4565046 and this my posts http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4565119

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 15 July 2015 - 04:30 PM.

[Paul Inouye]

Just want to pop in and remind everyone.. this is just the start... more to come and I'll keep y'all updated. We will put this stuff up on PTS before it goes live so you all get a chance to see what the changes do to gameplay.

[Giedi Prime]

Thank you so much! Perhaps an LRM reload speed nerf is in order.

I look forward to you work on 'mech quirk and role balance.

[LORD ORION]

Definetly a good game change.

Anyone who argues against this, without any reasons, is clearly a cry baby and lacking any critical thinking skills.

Effective range of 90 makes it much harder for the team to accidentally double stack ECM to neutralize bap carriers. They'll need to do it intentionally.

Effective range of 90m ecm gives scout mechs with advanced sensors a larger distance to lock you before you can jam them. (250m to 90m before you can jam them out)
This is actually a huge boost to streaks (lock bubble of 160m instead of 70m when using advanced sensors)

ECM at 90m now is pretty much for support mechs in the back or for moving a tightly packed team sneakily before it has to spread out to engage the enemy. It is not going to help as much during engagement ranges and will also reduce the effectiveness of a team that simply runs more ECM than the other. (eg 3 ecm vs 1 ecm per side is a pretty large advantage at the current 180m range)

Edited by LORD ORION, 15 July 2015 - 04:32 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Paul Inouye, on 15 July 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

Just want to pop in and remind everyone.. this is just the start... more to come and I'll keep y'all updated. We will put this stuff up on PTS before it goes live so you all get a chance to see what the changes do to gameplay.

So.... is that a yes to active / passive radar?

[Jack Shayu Walker]

AlphaStruck, on 15 July 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Good that you realize ECM is WAY overdone now but bad in your 1D thinking. Just do what weve asked for.

Stop the ROCK, PAPER, SCISSORS effect in every part of the game.

ECM blocks all locks outside 600m like it functions now. Inside 600m ECM mechs show on radar but require a 2x (placeholder time) lock time. A second ECM next to target would triple lock times.

BAP equiped mechs would lock ECM mechs at 800m.

TAG functions as it does now.

NARC shows target on radar and cancels its ECM effect as it does now. 3x lock time if NARC'd mech is under another ECM field.

AMS should be the PRIMARY anti missle defense. ECM should be the way to make a LRM boats life a little harder. Making the ECM a perfect missle defense was going to come back to bite us the players, nothing else could happen.

Only if ECM also prevents indirect lock ons. Target sharing essentially makes that invisible outside of 600m completely meaningless.

[bad arcade kitty]

LORD ORION, on 15 July 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

This is actually a huge boost to streaks (lock bubble of 160m instead of 70m when using advanced sensors)

do you know that ecm prevents locks outside of 200 meters? 250 with bap
the radius of its 180-90 meters umbrella doesn't matter here

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 15 July 2015 - 04:33 PM.