945 replies to this topic

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Pjwned, on 15 July 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

It is a crutch because a 1.5 (1) ton piece of equipment hard countering an entire weapon system (a weapon that is far more heavy than ECM as well) is completely ridiculous, especially considering how many other counters it has aside from ECM, so saying it's not a crutch while defending it because you depend on its ridiculous jesus box functionality is a sign that you need to git gud.



MWO mechs don't have C3-like functionality in the first place, so no.

Seems i didn't properly grasp how C3 works, oh well. No locks without LOS for 1.5 tons is still reasonable and you know it. It's also not a crutch because the ECM really only comes into play when I drop in with my sniper mech (the one that uses ECM; i do play non-ECM mechs) into a match where the enemy team is incredibly LRM heavy.

When that team proceeds to lurm to death targets that only one of them has a LOS on, I get to be the last guy standing because I wasn't immeditely mauled by enemies i have no way of fighting back against (I'm a light mech so id drop pretty quickly without ECM since speed can't protect you from lurms).

When the enemy team brings weapons that aren't point and click adventure focused I still do pretty great in my sniper and wouldn't even mind if I had no ECM.

[Hastur Azargo]

Can I like this post a hundred times? ECM has always been a very boring mechanic and yet it could make all the difference, not to mention it made playing LRM mechs an exercise in frustration. This is a good first step. Fingers crossed for the rest.

[Yuri Kovalesky]

Tennex, on 15 July 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

Heres a suggestion to information warfare/fixing ECM
Give all mechs Seismic Sensor by default as a "Radar"

Almost all mechs equip the module seismic sensor. It has become the de facto Radar of Mechwarrior Online. (don't freak out. Think of this change as just Seismic Sensor with more integration into Role Warfare)
Summary of what changing seismic sensor to Radar will do for the game :

• Active/Passive Radar
  
• True to lore implementation of ECM. That doesn't break all missiles
  
• True to lore implementation of whatever the hell radar tech you can think of
  
• Null Sig

And here is the how:



By actually having a Radar mechanic you are are able to implement features that are true to lore.
Meanwhile the Radar(seismic sensor) portion of the game is still kept separate from the Missile Lock/Visual Lock portion of the game. What this mean is:

#1 Just because you see mechs on your Radar(seismic sensor) doesn't mean you can lob LRMs at them. Just because you see them on Radar, doesn't mean you can have damage information on them. (A problem the developers sought to get rid of from the old game.)

#2 Lore ECM: Having a separate Radar and Missile targeting system means that ECM can have the Radar jamming portion of its function (invisible from Radar/Seismic), without the missile targeting interference. I.E true to lore and does not break an entire 1/3 of the weapons.


#3 You can tune/adjust a mech's Radar capability without hindering its Missile/Visual Targeting ability. I.E if you lower the Missile Targeting range by 1000 you can no longer effectively use LRMS. Whereas if you lower the Radar radius there is no effect on viability of Missile weapons. Worried that giving light mechs 2x Visual/Missile Lock will wreck the game? Worry no more, giving light mechs 2x Radar range is fine and encouraged!

#4 Passive/Active Radar! Turn off your own Radar(Seismic Sensor), and other mechs will not see you on their Radar. This means mechs will still be able to sneak around, and have that stealth gameplay.



Heck, devs can add Null Sig if they wanted to if it no longer has functionality overlap with ECM. Miss your Sniper Raven? Slap that Null Sig onto a Rave, turn on Passive Radar and it works just like ECM does now without the broken umbrella.

I agree with all the terms you offered....where do i sign?

[Yuri Kovalesky]

I not only agreed with Tennex but i also have my opinion on that matter.

I see alot of people talking about cheap missile tatic and this kind of stuff.

Sorry for you all fellas, but the entire ******* mech warrior story says about missile mechs and even more.

Missile is not only part of the game, books, table game and all other stuff, its something needed just to make any war a sense.

ECM in the current state breaks all that and forces 2 things: Brawl and Sniper.

Guess who is the most used? Sniper!

Sniper boat mechs are no different from the ''cheap missile mechs'' in my opinion and bringuing back the missiles will make the game more balanced and less camper sniping **** mettas.

Being loyal to the lore and even being balanced in-game is the true path for a successfull game and profitable.

Edited by Yuri Kovalesky, 15 July 2015 - 05:48 PM.

[Impyrium]

I think the more interesting thing here is what this will lead to- specialised mechs, alternative quirks affecting sensor and ECM range... the whole point of this, the way I see it, is to bring down the capability of general mechs down a little so that specialised mechs can stand apart more.

[Gryphorim]

Personally I'd have liked an ACTIVE/PASSIVE Sensors toggle, with ECM and BAP applying buffs/debuffs to that mechanic. This way, mechs without ECM have options to reduce their visibility also.

That being said, a reduction in ECM radius is a good first step.

Also completely agree with Tennex.

[ShadowStealer]

I am looking forward to the new "quirk" system. Not truly a quirk system, but specialization into role warfare. It really comes across as the way the game was meant to be IMHO.

[RedDevil]

Yuri Kovalesky, on 15 July 2015 - 05:46 PM, said:

Sniper boat mechs are no different from the ''cheap missile mechs'' in my opinion and bringuing back the missiles will make the game more balanced and less camper sniping **** mettas.

Being loyal to the lore and even being balanced in-game is the true path for a successfull game and profitable.

Two things.
1) "Sniper boats" have to show their face to shoot, Missile Boats do not. They have zero risk of return fire.
2) Even in table top "locked" missiles can still miss a standing mech in an open field. In MWO they cannot. LRMs are not working like the TT system, so ECM isn't either.

Edited by RedDevil, 15 July 2015 - 05:54 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Yuri Kovalesky, on 15 July 2015 - 05:46 PM, said:

I not only agreed with Tennex but i also have my opinion on that matter.

I see alot of people talking about cheap missile tatic and this kind of stuff.

Sorry for you all fellas, but the entire ******* mech warrior story says about missile mechs and even more.

Missile is not only part of the game, books, table game and all other stuff, its something needed just to make any war a sense.

ECM in the current state breaks all that and forces 2 things: Brawl and Sniper.

Guess who is the most used? Sniper!

Sniper boat mechs are no different from the ''cheap missile mechs'' in my opinion and bringuing back the missiles will make the game more balanced and less camper sniping **** mettas.

Being loyal to the lore and even being balanced in-game is the true path for a successfull game and profitable.

How is removing countermeasures for non-LOS missile volleys going to make the game more balanced? Once again I am totally fine with LRM boats being able to LOS lock me with their LRMs, what seems highly unfair to me is that the ENTIRE enemy team can lock their LRMs onto me just because one mech can see me.

It seems to me that knowing where the majority of the enemy team is, and taking cover should protect me from the majority of enemy fire. I don't feel as though one mech seeing me should give the entire enemy team a firing solution on me. Can you explain to me how allowing such a thing with no countermeasures to stop it is balanced?

[Past]

Could we have some synergy between BAP and ECM when ECM is switched to counter mode. Currently the cancelling effect of BAP doesn't function when ECM is set to disrupt which i believe is fair but a little bonus to the range when on counter mode to reflect the two pieces of equipment working in tandem would be a cool feature.

[groundpounder47]

I don't believe BAP deserves the nerf bat. It is rather underutilized already. However, I love the idea of an ECM nerf. My hunchie-4J will finally be useful again.

[DebaucheryNShenanigans]

Dont nerf CAP/BAP so much...
Means a streak mech is effectively limp till the 90m ecm removal.

I have 27 BAPs across my IS fleet.
I was a big fan of breaking ECM and hope the new changes are documented to allow new and under educated players realise a 1ton 1 slot piece can save their embarrassing "no locks" on missile boats.

Can WE PLEASE ALSO GET A RETHINK ON
C3 slave and command for IS
Maybe TC for Clan

Targeting your own locks is great.
But sharing info outside of class or alpha designation.... should be limited until players start utilising tech.

Maybe a 50% decrease in LRMs unless they are C3 equipped on out of LoS targets.

Edited by Fluero, 15 July 2015 - 06:14 PM.

[RedDevil]

It's always been the free indirect fire that can really rub people the wrong way. If LRMs only locked if they had LoS, or if the target was TAG'd or NARC'd then the current ECM mechanic wouldn't even be needed.

[Odanan]

Tennex, on 15 July 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

Heres a suggestion to information warfare/fixing ECM
Give all mechs Seismic Sensor by default as a "Radar"

Almost all mechs equip the module seismic sensor. It has become the de facto Radar of Mechwarrior Online. (don't freak out. Think of this change as just Seismic Sensor with more integration into Role Warfare)
Summary of what changing seismic sensor to Radar will do for the game :

• Active/Passive Radar
  
• True to lore implementation of ECM. That doesn't break all missiles
  
• True to lore implementation of whatever the hell radar tech you can think of
  
• Null Sig

And here is the how:



By actually having a Radar mechanic you are are able to implement features that are true to lore.
Meanwhile the Radar(seismic sensor) portion of the game is still kept separate from the Missile Lock/Visual Lock portion of the game. What this mean is:

#1 Just because you see mechs on your Radar(seismic sensor) doesn't mean you can lob LRMs at them. Just because you see them on Radar, doesn't mean you can have damage information on them. (A problem the developers sought to get rid of from the old game.)

#2 Lore ECM: Having a separate Radar and Missile targeting system means that ECM can have the Radar jamming portion of its function (invisible from Radar/Seismic), without the missile targeting interference. I.E true to lore and does not break an entire 1/3 of the weapons.


#3 You can tune/adjust a mech's Radar capability without hindering its Missile/Visual Targeting ability. I.E if you lower the Missile Targeting range by 1000 you can no longer effectively use LRMS. Whereas if you lower the Radar radius there is no effect on viability of Missile weapons. Worried that giving light mechs 2x Visual/Missile Lock will wreck the game? Worry no more, giving light mechs 2x Radar range is fine and encouraged!

#4 Passive/Active Radar! Turn off your own Radar(Seismic Sensor), and other mechs will not see you on their Radar. This means mechs will still be able to sneak around, and have that stealth gameplay.



Heck, devs can add Null Sig if they wanted to if it no longer has functionality overlap with ECM. Miss your Sniper Raven? Slap that Null Sig onto a Rave, turn on Passive Radar and it works just like ECM does now without the broken umbrella.

This is very good!

[Tennex]

Odanan, on 15 July 2015 - 06:11 PM, said:

This is very good!

Spread the word!

[Krivvan]

ECM has never been important to me, and for most people who play in organized matches anyways. One of the last considerations when putting together a drop deck. To the point where it's considered a restriction in MRBC to have to bring a minimum number of ECM mechs.

[Rick Rollington]

Crazy idea..... but what if Indirect Fire only worked provided the Spotter kept his crosshair on the target. Ignore ECM, BAP, TAG, Narc, etc for a moment.

Because the main complaint I'm seeing from the Magic Jesus Box Lovers is that it saves them from the "C3 Godmode LRM Autolocks" (admittedly, paraphrasing). So it's really just the "Press R to win" issue that most people have with LRMs. Now, if the Spotter had to keep the crosshair on target the entire time for the lock to hold, suddenly it requires someone to be a dedicated spotter, and not just target the person they are in a Brawl with. This would be one hell of a nerf to indirect LRMs, so they'd probably need a minor buff to make them better in LoS.

Just a thought.

[LuxAstrum]

Tina Benoit, on 15 July 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

Hello MechWarriors,

Please share your feedback on this thread regarding Paul's discussion on ECM changes.

Honestly, and I mean it, I am happy for any changes too the game currently.

For a long time the gameplay has been the same without any changes.

People fear change, they don't like it, but it needs to be done. This game needs to change in a variety of ways all of which I can't even come up with because I am a CNA and not a game designer. This change to ECM along with the upcomming changes to role warfare I hole-heartily support.

Keep it up and never stop! I support you!

[Flutterguy]

RedDevil, on 15 July 2015 - 06:11 PM, said:

It's always been the free indirect fire that can really rub people the wrong way. If LRMs only locked if they had LoS, or if the target was TAG'd or NARC'd then the current ECM mechanic wouldn't even be needed.

You realize of course that LRM boats don't magically see through walls. Something has to be used as a spotter and aside from NARCs those spotters can be destroyed. Moreover, unless you are woefully out of position, you can just break LOS and take cover.

Edited by Flutterguy, 15 July 2015 - 06:25 PM.

[RedDevil]

Flutterguy, on 15 July 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

You realize of course that LRM boats don't magically see through walls. Something has to be used as a spotter and aside from NARCs those spotters can be destroyed. Moreover, unless you are woefully out of position, you can just break LOS and take cover.

Everyone is aware of that. Spotting is the easiest thing to do in this game. You don't even have to be looking directly at the enemy to spot it. Just have it somewhere in your front ark with LoS, and all of a sudden lots of red boxes appear. It happens by accident it's so simple to do.

EDIT: and Missile boats can magically see through walls with a UAV, but I guess that doesn't count?

Edited by RedDevil, 15 July 2015 - 06:31 PM.