111 replies to this topic

[Buffalo Six]

Mchawkeye, on 02 December 2011 - 02:13 AM, said:

My x52 has lasted ages at the hands of a hulking stupid ogre of a pilot. As far as I am concerned, If I get shot at in real life, I'm hiding behind my bullet proof joystick. I even dropped it from three metres once. Not a scratch. Damn thing will out last cockroaches. Being so close to a fusion reactor, that might not be a bad thing.

Anyway, back to the windows. Correct me if I am wrong as this is but a vague memory, but was there not a TT infantry unit -mech hunters or something- than singled out the pilot with high powered sniper rifles? Without windows that would have been impossible, surely?

Hey I'm happy yours lasted. I went through 5 of them in a span of about 3 months. Thank Gosh for Best Buys No Questions Asked Replacement Plan! I sent my TM Cougar off to have an Full Uber II Mod and used the X52 as a stopgap....ugh those sticks were horrible

[Harlequin4457]

Zakatak, on 30 November 2011 - 07:22 PM, said:

Lol'd at the X52 Pro throttle on the left

Could have been worse! I'm still on the old Saitek X45. Absolutely love the cockpit pic, by the way - Mr. Hunchback has a holiday by the sea with his friend, Mr. Dragon, or is it Mr. Victor. Oh, well, whoever!

Edited by Harlequin4457, 02 December 2011 - 06:16 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 02 December 2011 - 05:57 AM, said:

What is that cockpit based on?
Imo, it isn't similar enough to the canon cockpit views.

Yes, well, what mech is this from? It stands to reason no two mech types will look the same, perhaps even the same design from various manufacturers. I'd imagine a more streamlined look like that could be more common on a Clan machine then a 3050 era cobbled together Inner Sphere battlemech. I highly doubt a Mackie's cockpit shares much resemblance to a Bushwhacker's.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 02 December 2011 - 06:35 AM.

[Mechteric]

That canon picture is too spread out horizontally, especially for use in a game where you only get like a 80 degree viewpoint of the world. So it makes sense to try to put some of that stuff up at the top of the viewport instead.

Besides, look at where the mech kick controls are, wayyyy over to the right, how exactly does that make sense? Just saying that canon pictures aren't always the most ideally placed.

Edited by capperdeluxe, 02 December 2011 - 07:14 AM.

[Xhaleon]

capperdeluxe, on 02 December 2011 - 07:11 AM, said:

That canon picture is too spread out horizontally, especially for use in a game where you only get like a 80 degree viewpoint of the world. So it makes sense to try to put some of that stuff up at the top of the viewport instead.

Besides, look at where the mech kick controls are, wayyyy over to the right, how exactly does that make sense? Just saying that canon pictures aren't always the most ideally placed.

That is a stitched together view of multiple images. The perspectives aren't the same.

[Orzorn]

xhrit, on 01 December 2011 - 01:14 PM, said:

I used to run p&p mechwarrior game and the same kid every time would always say he aims for the glass. No, that isn't glass, battlemech's don't have windows. I don't care if the picture shows them with windows, whoever drew that is retarded, mech's don't have windows. They just don't. And even if they did they would not be made of glass.

Actually, I recall hearing that they're essentially transparent armor sections. They act like windows, but they're about as strong as normal armor sections.

[Odin]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 02 December 2011 - 05:57 AM, said:

What is that cockpit based on?

Greetings Alizabeth,
honestly I prefer Alexs work, its based on the Reboot of the franchise, that is, he made it up completely on his own whim, just like the one you showed us.

S!

Edited by Odin, 02 December 2011 - 07:55 AM.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

capperdeluxe, on 02 December 2011 - 07:11 AM, said:

That canon picture is too spread out horizontally, especially for use in a game where you only get like a 80 degree viewpoint of the world. So it makes sense to try to put some of that stuff up at the top of the viewport instead.

Besides, look at where the mech kick controls are, wayyyy over to the right, how exactly does that make sense? Just saying that canon pictures aren't always the most ideally placed.

Its a composite picture.

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Yes, well, what mech is this from?

No idea.

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honestly I prefer Alexs work, its based on the Reboot of the franchise, that is, he made it up completely on his own whim, just like the one you showed us.

Not "Mad Max" enough, imo.

[Spike mc rocket]

OOH YEEAH. That is so freaking awesome!

[Dihm]

That "canon" picture look like, and no offense because I love it also, Robotech/Macross to me, and not Battletech.

[Nebfer]

Pariah Devalis, on 02 December 2011 - 06:34 AM, said:

Yes, well, what mech is this from? It stands to reason no two mech types will look the same, perhaps even the same design from various manufacturers. I'd imagine a more streamlined look like that could be more common on a Clan machine then a 3050 era cobbled together Inner Sphere battlemech. I highly doubt a Mackie's cockpit shares much resemblance to a Bushwhacker's.

The "Canon" cockpit view is from the Mechwarrior companion & Tech manual and is of the Grand Titan's cockpit.
I believe battlemech cockpits have been fluffed to be similar to "today's" aircraft cockpits, Also that the "canon" image is noted to be largely for that mech, though most mechs have similar layouts.

xhrit, on 01 December 2011 - 01:14 PM, said:

I was hoping the reboot and redesign would do away with the more retarded design elements that have plagued the series since its inception.

Bad enough we have blocky top heavy shot traps on legs, but come the **** on, windows and led mfd screens? I was hoping for something at least comparable to modern technology.

Considering that even real life tanks do not have 120+ degree vision displays and that modern fighters still have glass canopies. And still use MFD displays This argument is rather moot.

And this is not a reboot of the core aesthetics of the universe (the PC games can not due that), it's just a relaunch of the franchise.

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In a universe where we have neural interfaces, we do not even need viewscreens, but lets for the sake of argument say we have them. The cockpit should be a sealed system incased in armor at the center of the battlemech, The main screens should have the same interface and composition as the secondary screens, and be fed data from sensors covering the mech.

Your over stating what a B-tech neuralhelmet is and what it's capable of (for the most part it's used for balance control), Enhanced neural Interfaces drive the operator insane after a few years and will start having brain damage after 10 years. That is not something most militarys would want...

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I used to run p&p mechwarrior game and the same kid every time would always say he aims for the glass. No, that isn't glass, battlemech's don't have windows. I don't care if the picture shows them with windows, whoever drew that is retarded, mech's don't have windows. They just don't. And even if they did they would not be made of glass.

Then you have a faulty view of B-tech canon, in any case battlemech cockpits are made from armored "glass", and seemingly often augmented by displays. Their capable of withstanding hits that would gut an Abrams tank. On the other hand their is also a few mechs that do seem to have internal cockpits of a sort, the prime example is the Crab.

[Joachim Viltry]

xhrit, on 01 December 2011 - 03:56 PM, said:

----

Sorry buddy, the windows are there, and as others have pointed out, it is some tough 'glass'. given the calculated yields of BT weapons, and the strength of BT armor, that 'glass' can shrug off modern AT weapons easily. Hell, a rule set exists for using with 21st century weaponry in BT that neatly verifies this.

You may dislike the windows, but as armored materials exist that facilitate them (within the BT universe) they make sense- when sensors fail/are jammed/etc the good ol' eyeball is always good to have on hand.

You could always try reading the source material- and maybe yaknow, not bringing in preconceived ideas of what 'is' or 'should be' into other peoples fictional universes. Perhaps write your own if you are so inclined.

Overall it seems that your understanding of BT is pretty damn poor, and frankly I think the attitude displayed by that petulant 'it's retarded' statement is equally shameful. Or more succinctly, in the words of a coach I once knew "suck it up son, and go take a lap."


Behold the HORROR! Armored glass! That pilots LOOK THROUGH! How scandalous!

It must be so hard for you to get by day by day, when you have such a pathological fear of cockpit windscreens...

Edited by Joachim Viltry, 03 December 2011 - 12:32 AM.

[Halfinax]

The "armored glass" is Ferro-Glass. Essentially it's the same stuff as the rest of the armor it's just transparent.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Quote

That "canon" picture look like, and no offense because I love it also, Robotech/Macross to me, and not Battletech.

Its from Classic BattleTech Companion, FASA 10975, from 2003.
So that's a few years after the Unseen-issue.

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Your over stating what a B-tech neuralhelmet is and what it's capable of (for the most part it's used for balance control), Enhanced neural Interfaces drive the operator insane after a few years and will start having brain damage after 10 years. That is not something most militarys would want...

Correction:
We've got:
Direct Neural Interface (Unbound): No buffering of imputs at all. You need a special drug (which is highly addictive and extremely rare) to negate the most of it, such as suffering feedback damage whenever your 'Mech is hit. (Quick way to kill a pilot, btw.) Estimated time before brain-death: months to a year, most likely. Only test subject suffered from severe paranoia, schizophrenia and psychosis after a few months of being installed with it.
Enhanced Imaging (ProtoMech): Similar to DNI, but with some buffering at the cost of effectiveness. Users are expected to be dead within 5-10 years.
Vehicle Direct Neural Interface: Some buffering to prevent the most serious feedbacks, although not nearly as effective as the original DNI. Estimated years remaining: 10 years.
Buffered VNDI: Additional buffering over the VNDI negates most of the downsides. Expected remaining life: 15 years.

One of the biggest problem with the first two, is that the user quite literally feels like a god while having it active in his/her BattleMech/ProtoMech.

[CaveMan]

The "armored glass" issue can actually be solved pretty easily with fibre optics.



The above image shows a simplified version of a fibre-optic armored viewport. 99% of the material is conventional armor. The remaining percentage is occupied by optical fibres made of transparent alumina or another hard, transparent material. The diagram shows straight fibres but you could actually weave them into the composite matrix of the armor. On either side of the plate you have a set of thin, strong-index lenses that reconstruct the image at full size. The result is a clear view through a surface that is at least 99% as tough as solid armor, with only a small drop in illumination.

Miniaturized optics technology would allow you to build image intensifier tubes right into the "glass" so it would have integral night vision, infared, whatever you wanted.

[Quietruck]

Instead of having a multitude of screen displays, why not have a Heads Up dispay on the mechs windows. Or as a part of the pilots helmet. Was this technology not available yet? All those screens would be rather distracting for in battle activities.

[Quietruck]

How about a helmet shield with which you are able with at a key stroke, bring up what ever display is pertinent at the moment. Whether it be coms, radar, or weapons. Mind you I like the look of the cockpit as far as design goes, but it's all way to cluttered.

[Quietruck]

With
a huge public release like MWO will be, we have got to able to way the cannon with practicality. With a good balance of both we can keep as much of the lore as possible and still maintain usability for all who want to play.

[Joachim Viltry]

{FWC} Quietruck, on 03 December 2011 - 01:15 PM, said:

With
a huge public release like MWO will be, we have got to able to way the cannon with practicality. With a good balance of both we can keep as much of the lore as possible and still maintain usability for all who want to play.

There seems to be some confusion on this, functionally a HUD and a cockpit are the SAME. The real difference is that with a cockpit, all of that data is framed in screens, and integrated with the cockpit structure, rather than the cockpit being nothing but a couple of uprights acting as a backdrop to let you know you are in a war-machine.

I cannot emphasize this fact enough; the info is in the same place on the screen! look at the cockpit teaser, now look at a mech 4 cockpit shot... now look left! oh my targeting display! look right, oh a Damage display! eyes center! wonder of wonders, it's a radar /jumpjets/heat display! and HARK what is that in the upper right? Why, it is my weapons! All exactly where they have lived since mechwarrior 4!

So we could do it as a HUD Or we could have a cool cockpit, that both adds to the experience and matches fluff while providing the exact same functionality with far more panache and style.

-cockpits all the way, baby! I cut my teath as a young gamer, with cockpits in my SIM games- All the great classic SIMs had them, it was truly a sad day when we went from games like THIS


to games like THIS

Edited by Joachim Viltry, 03 December 2011 - 02:11 PM.

[CaveMan]

I don't want a choice between a cockpit and a HUD. I want both.

The HUD makes a great quick reference for the most essential combat information. Your gunsight, velocity, heading, a basic sensor readout, and the most critical info on your weapons. Personally I love the Starsiege heading/radar/velocity/energy combined gauge. It puts a lot of important details in a rapidly scanned space without creating overload.

Attempting to splash lots of detailed info up on the HUD will make it viciously cluttered, though.


^This is not desirable.

Panel displays, on the other hand, are great for displaying tons of information. Detailed info on your sensor modes, armor condition and critical systems, comm system, navigation map, heat level and cooling capacity, etc. Ideally they're not in your line of sight while you're shooting at the bad guys, but you can glance at one and assimilate a lot of data very rapidly. And since the devs have rightly emphasized that information warfare will be a critical component of MWO, the ability to assimilate lots of information at a glance is critical.