158 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Anjian, on 29 July 2015 - 05:34 AM, said:

Nobody told stories about starships roaming the universe either, but you got Star Wars and Star Trek.

Scifi dominates summer movies. Comic book superheroes are a type of Scifi, not fantasy. So are alien invasions.

Scifi is more identified with spaceships than it is with giant robots. When you are dealing with interstellar empires, the core of that strength lies in starships, not giant robots. That's why giant robots never made sense in the interstellar setting (Japanese mecha anime are very very rarely, interstellar). Starships are also much more flexible in design, and they can be quite cool. Starships also make convenient vessels to base literature.

but we are the first generation who saw it in TV Series. Tons of catoons in the 80s with space genre.

[Anjian]

Strum Wealh, on 29 July 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

If we want to be correct, all fiction is by definition fantasy.

Granted, what is called "high fantasy" (think Record of Lodoss War, LOTR, D&D, etc; contrast with "low fantasy", such as Dresden Files, True Blood, the World of Darkness games, etc) does tend to be more popular than most brands of science fiction - largely by virtue of the latter being a relatively new setting type, while the former is ancient by comparison (see: Arthurian legend).

It also depends on what sort of material one can access during those formative years; for example, I grew up on such works as Bubblegum Crisis (the original version), Appleseed, Guyver (the 1989 miniseries, the animated movie, and both live-action movies), Teknoman (the US localization of Tekkaman Blade), "the Golden Age of American(ized) Sentai" (MMPR, Beetleborgs, VR Troopers, Superhuman Samurai Cyber Squad, etc), the MetalTech games (EarthSeige & Battledrome), BattleTech & MechWarrior (of course ), and others - my foundation of the "knight-type character" is just as likely to be a woman as a man, is equipped with either full-body mechanical powered armor or living powered armor of alien origins, and/or strode the fields atop (or within) mechanical "steeds".

Original Tekkaman was awesome. There is something about the song that is full of testerone and gets under the skin.

Uchuu no Kishii Tekkaman.

[Leiska]

Anjian, on 20 July 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

Dark Souls is literally Armored Core turned into a human being. The entire Armored Core style, its darkness, the faceless dark god like protagonist --- are all reflected in Dark Souls.

I was never able to beat the original AC on PS1. At some point the game just shoves you into a mission that features a super fast enemy mech with jets. He's nearly impossible to target and just about one-shots anything you can bring with one missile salvo. I still have no idea how you're supposed to approach that one. In fact, I think I'll go look for a let's play once I get home from work. DS1 and 2 are a cakewalk in comparison.

Damocles, on 20 July 2015 - 07:34 PM, said:

sleeveless and legless....so either (probably given 1980s) leotard but also more modernly booty-shortish leather suit and knee high boots.....

sounds awful.

Yeah, the image that kept popping into my head while reading the description screamed of cheesy 80's aesthetics. With some modernization I'm sure it could be turned into an alluring outfit for those fine ladies, however.

Anjian, on 21 July 2015 - 01:56 AM, said:

Mechs have gradually fallen out of favor in Japan, even in anime and manga, and it been that way gradually since the Internet age. Moe, harems, Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, RPGs, fantasy themes, these for the most part have taken over. That has also shown in the weakening of the mech franchises over there.

I'm not as in tune with current anime as I used to, but my impression is that most of these are already in decline. Moe pretty much took over the industry around 2010 and I really burned out from it but we're seeing a resurgence of deeper stories and characters. Harems I feel peaked already in the very late 90's and early 2000's but still have a reasonably strong foothold. All the big shounen fight of the week shows also are on their way out, I think. Some of my 25+ old friends do still watch Naruto even though the series stopped being even passable about a decade ago, though, which I find puzzling.

Edited by Leiska, 04 August 2015 - 07:38 AM.

[Kyone Akashi]

Leiska, on 04 August 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

Yeah, the image that kept popping into my head while reading the description screamed of cheesy 80's aesthetics. With some modernization I'm sure it could be turned into an alluring outfit for those fine ladies, however.

Nothing wrong with the 80s!

The leg- and sleeveless "leotard" is pretty common for both female and male MechWarriors across the Inner Sphere too, by the way, as undergarment for the cooling vest. Minimal clothing as cockpits get hot. Other militaries are using a two-part set of a skintight tank-top + cycling shorts. Some mercenary characters in the novels are wearing nothing but panties and a shirt. Or not even a shirt, if you're Natasha Kerensky.

DCMS MechWarrior w/ cooling vest and helmet - you can see the "leotard" below the gear, also seen in this piece of fan-art.
Davion MechWarrior
Sorenson's Sabres MechWarrior

Battletech can get very "cyberpunk" or "post-apocalyptic" especially once you start looking at the fashion of merc outfits. I think that these designs can still hit a note today.

What makes it look good in terms of sci-fi - even contemporary sci-fi (imho) - is all the gear that is added on top. The heavy duty cooling vest that almost looks like body armor, but also the gloves and the boots. Belt with pistol holster. Only the bulky helmet might look a little too odd for modern tastes. In the MechWarrior videogames it got replaced by modern aircraft pilot helmets, though I suspect this was done more for budget reasons. Interestingly, Battletech technology also evolved within the setting, so later eras have seen lighter helmets. Perhaps the franchise trying to catch up with modern taste.

Leiska, on 04 August 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

I'm not as in tune with current anime as I used to, but my impression is that most of these are already in decline. Moe pretty much took over the industry around 2010 and I really burned out from it but we're seeing a resurgence of deeper stories and characters. Harems I feel peaked already in the very late 90's and early 2000's but still have a reasonably strong foothold. All the big shounen fight of the week shows also are on their way out, I think. Some of my 25+ old friends do still watch Naruto even though the series stopped being even passable about a decade ago, though, which I find puzzling.

It's about time; I honestly cannot watch the harem cliche anymore. After Knights of Sidonia had such a great first season, I was very disappointed to see it creep into the second. I feel like what is on the rise right now might be Slice of Life, though, perhaps as a result of the stressful world we live in nowadays, and as such a greater need for some peace and quiet?

In terms of mecha action, at least we had Patlabor make a bit of a comeback. I was positively surprised how well it translated to live-action, given that I usually have a strong bias against such transitions. It remains to be seen if there is more, or if it was just a small blip on the radar, though.

[Anjian]

Second season of Knights of Sidonia ended well. That final battle was just a masterpiece of storyboarding.

Harem anime still runs strong, and it goes both ways including reverse harems.

Many good slice of life, or moe-slice of life, as well as just fantasy and scifi with deep stories and complex characters. Outrageous comedies involving crazy characters and school are hotter than ever.

Shounen series all losing their steam. But not Fairy Tail, because RPG-Fantasy types are still hot. Fairy Tail nicely moves along the borders of shounen series with epic battles that last for months, but also has the feel of a medieval fantasy,

New Gundam series coming this fall. Boring.

Second half of Fafnir Exodus. I have been awaiting this for some time. This is a great mech series that follows the tradition of Neon Genesis Evangelion. In a way, so did Knights of Sidonia. In a way, these are not 'primary' mech series --- these are humanity survival stories against relentless, godlike enemies, in which mechs are just tools to be used for that battle. This has spiritual roots to the Kaiju genre also. Lets put it in another way, Attack on Titan also follows this theme, but without the technology and the mechs.

Arpeggio of Blue Steel Ars Nova. New season. Another girls + World War 2 military hardware that has become popular lately with Kancolle, Flight Witches and Girls und Panzer (which gets a movie this fall). I tend to think Arpeggio is the best of them all due to its complex characters, theme, a scifi bent, alien enemies with god like technological attributes that take the form of World War 2 warships resurrected with female avatars. This show is really about the enemies, the Fleet of the Fog. The manga seems quite popular, and the Fleet of the Fog has expanded beyond ships of the Imperal Japanese Navy to the Royal Navy, the Kriegsmarine and the USN. Similar to Knights of Sidonia, the anime series makes great use of CG merged with 2D animation styles.

Happiness is a lot of missiles.


If you like to see where the best anime is going, watch shows like Psycho Pass and Tokyo Ghoul. Psycho Pass is the best cyberpunk I have seen for a while.

Edited by Anjian, 04 August 2015 - 10:22 AM.

[990Dreams]

It is weird, because Titanfall seemed like a success. The franchise needs a major single player reboot.

Also, let's face it, PC is not the majority gaming choice for today's (majority idiot) generation. We need a good console game across all consoles (yes, the Wii U included) as well as a PC. Then maybe MW:O can gain traction.

But that also means everyone will have to shut up and deal with some changes made to the franchise. The major block is that the community is awful and hates changing their beloved BT, as we can see by this community's reaction to certain updates. No game studio wants to redo a game that the community would just reject since they had to tweak it.

[MarineTech]

DavidHurricane, on 04 August 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

But that also means everyone will have to shut up and deal with some changes made to the franchise. The major block is that the community is awful and hates changing their beloved BT, as we can see by this community's reaction to certain updates. No game studio wants to redo a game that the community would just reject since they had to tweak it.

You touch my mechs and I'll cut you man.

[Anjian]

Titanfall is primarily an FPS with some mechs. If you look at many games, there are quite a few shooters and scifi games that embody secondary mech elements. These are quite successful.

The Lost Planet series can be considered partially a mech series considering the number of large scale exoskeletons the franchise has. The series calls them Vital Suits but no one is fooled that these are mechs.

[Anjian]

This is actually a new RPG that is coming for the Wii. From the people that brought you Xenogears, the Xenosaga trilogy and Xenoblade Chronicles.



One of the races in the Phantasy Star franchise, called CASTs, are sentient robots. They look like human sized mechs.

Edited by Anjian, 04 August 2015 - 06:01 PM.

[StompingOnTanks]

Lost Planet is freaking awesome. I loved the first game. Second game was meh though. Haven't played 3.

[Leiska]

Anjian, on 04 August 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

If you like to see where the best anime is going, watch shows like Psycho Pass and Tokyo Ghoul. Psycho Pass is the best cyberpunk I have seen for a while.

I love cyberpunk, but I have to say I wasn't quite that impressed by the beginning of Psycho Pass. I guess my gripe with it stems from the Dominator(?) system they use to control potentially criminal behaviour. It's basically a gun that takes its sweet ass time to tell the user, in voice no less, if they can fire at whoever they're aiming at. The suspension of disbelief required to accept that as a viable piece of technology was just too much for me.

Edited by Leiska, 05 August 2015 - 06:53 AM.

[Lily from animove]

DavidHurricane, on 04 August 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

It is weird, because Titanfall seemed like a success. The franchise needs a major single player reboot.

Also, let's face it, PC is not the majority gaming choice for today's (majority idiot) generation. We need a good console game across all consoles (yes, the Wii U included) as well as a PC. Then maybe MW:O can gain traction.

But that also means everyone will have to shut up and deal with some changes made to the franchise. The major block is that the community is awful and hates changing their beloved BT, as we can see by this community's reaction to certain updates. No game studio wants to redo a game that the community would just reject since they had to tweak it.

Titanfall was a success sales wise, thanks to being hyped. But gamewise a total fail, and hardly anyone plays it anymore.

Just google the term Titanfail

Edited by Lily from animove, 05 August 2015 - 07:00 AM.

[Anjian]

Leiska, on 05 August 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

I love cyberpunk, but I have to say I wasn't quite that impressed by the beginning of Psycho Pass. I guess my gripe with it stems from the Dominator(?) system they use to control potentially criminal behaviour. It's basically a gun that takes its sweet ass time to tell the user, in voice no less, if they can fire at whoever they're aiming at. The suspension of disbelief required to accept that as a viable piece of technology was just too much for me.

I think in Japan, its because before they shoot someone first, the police takes their time to make sure the alleged perpetuator is armed, hostile and dangerous enough to endanger the police or surrounding people so it makes sense there has to be some sweet time for justifying before they press the trigger. They don't shoot first and ask questions later which I assume seems to be an increasing practice in the US based on the headlines there.

Edited by Anjian, 06 August 2015 - 07:41 AM.

[Leiska]

Anjian, on 06 August 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

I think in Japan, its because before they shoot someone first, the police takes their time to make sure the alleged perpetuator is armed, hostile and dangerous enough to endanger the police or surrounding people so it makes sense there has to be some sweet time for justifying before they press the trigger. They don't shoot first and ask questions later which I assume seems to be an increasing practice in the US based on the headlines there.

The thing is, if the weapon can tell the target's mental state, shouldn't it inform the wielder ASAP? IIRC the weapon won't even fire unless it gives permission first, so why drone on and on with a voice that reveals your location? It's absurd considering how the wielder may be in danger while he waits for the gun to tell him if he can shoot or not.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

It might help if the mech genre were more like Iron Man with Robert Downey Jr where there are high tech, futuristic elements presented in such a way that everyone can relate and empathize with them.

The learning curve and grind could alienate people. Topics like ECM, weapons heat, override mech shutdown need some exposition in a storyboard format that people can relate to in a popculture setting.

[Anjian]

Leiska, on 06 August 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

The thing is, if the weapon can tell the target's mental state, shouldn't it inform the wielder ASAP? IIRC the weapon won't even fire unless it gives permission first, so why drone on and on with a voice that reveals your location? It's absurd considering how the wielder may be in danger while he waits for the gun to tell him if he can shoot or not.

The weapon cannot tell the target's mental state by itself. It lacks the processing and the decision making to do so. That has to be processed by the Sibyl system. In essence its like a smart gun connected to a cloud based neural AI network. It is also the decision of the Sibyl system to determine if the wielder is in danger or not. The whole point is that the decisioning process is not in the wielder but the Sibyl system. The free will to kill is totally removed from society, that's one of the points of the Sibyl system which is all knowing and omniscient. It also potentially removes police abuse, and puts policing forces entirely at the power of the Sibyl system which also makes revolts impossible.

[Anjian]

I Zeratul I, on 06 August 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

It might help if the mech genre were more like Iron Man with Robert Downey Jr where there are high tech, futuristic elements presented in such a way that everyone can relate and empathize with them.

The learning curve and grind could alienate people. Topics like ECM, weapons heat, override mech shutdown need some exposition in a storyboard format that people can relate to in a popculture setting.

The entire Japanese Super Robot genre, not the mech ones, the ones with the massive bolt on robots, is basically a superhero in robot form. Essentially, its Iron Man in giant form. In fact their concept of "Iron Man" predates Iron Man himself, the first notable super robot being Testsuojin Niju Hachi (Iron Man 28) aka shown as Gigantor in the US.



Modern Gigantor

Edited by Anjian, 06 August 2015 - 07:21 PM.

[Anjian]

Beginnings of the Mecha/Super Robot Genre in Japan. The following factors:

1. The aerial bombings of Japanese cities by B-17s and B-29s left a deep trauma in the Japanese national psyche. That of a besieged state fighting for its very survival in the face of a relentlessly superior technological enemy.

2. The propaganda of German secret weapons, that these messianic secret weapons can suddenly turn the tide of a war that is already lost, bringing all sorts of hope.

3. The Cold War comes, and the threat of technology --- atomic weapons, rockets, etc,.

4. The Frankenstein complex. The creation of a monster that whose appearance is evil but is really neither good or evil and can be turned to the purposes of good.

5. The post war rise of the Japanese toy industry, one of its most important ventures is the manufacture of toy robots in the 1950s.

So in a world faced by a superior technogical enemy (aliens or evil organization), super genius scientist takes that superior technology being used for evil, and in the form of a secret weapon, turns it for the purposes of good, to save the world. He creates his Frankenstein, to be the savior of this world. Our super messianic Frankenstein takes the form of a super giant robot, and therein, the super hero. A kid takes the reins of the robot because they represent the naive courage and innocence which simple heroism is identified with.

So the story becomes successful in media, but it takes an ecosystem to power the genre further on. That comes with the toy industry looking for more ideas beyond the Robby the Robots types (Forbidden Planet, 1956). And ergo, super robot becomes a toy, which becomes a popular toy. When the manga or first anime series runs out, toy industry wants sequels so they can make more toy robots to sell. So you create more super hero giant robot series, and on and on and on, until the whole thing literally runs for hundreds of shows, super robots and mecha, across decades. These perpetuation evolved to things like the Gundam model kit industry to the Transformers.

Somewhere along the line, one of those shows was Super Dimension Century Macross.

Well over sixty years now, super robots are still fighting a relentlessly superior technological enemy as humanity clings to its survival, a symbol of hope that science and technology can save the world.

Edited by Anjian, 06 August 2015 - 08:32 PM.

[LeucippusK]

I have mech commander 2, mech assault 1 and 2, mech warrior3 , pirates moon expansion, mech warrior 4 , black knight and mercs expansion. Also downloaded LL but only played it for a very short time. MWO is a great game despite some pitfalls and probably the best so far, just my opinion.