749 replies to this topic

[Throat Punch]

stjobe, on 24 July 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

I'll fight you in my Wasps, they'll suck just as bad. And like you, I won't care

I'll see your Wasp and Stinger and and raise you my Phoenix Hawk L.A.M. without transforming action that will suck twice as bad!

[Bishop Steiner]

Nathan Foxbane, on 24 July 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

Stylistically and considering the color palette Alex often used for his old art on his DA page it actually looks a lot like Alex's work.

Still cannot unsee that dead kitten armor Alex.

pretty sure it is Alex's work. Just saying the one he had to design for PGI was under much stricter regulations.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 July 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

There was no "widowmakers" in 3025. Just the Blackwidow Company, later in the 3030s, the Black Widow Battalion. After Natasha left, they became the Wolf Spider Battalion.

True, they were called the Black Widow Company, semi-autonomous unit of Wolf's Dragoons, and they were the Black Widow Battalion as of 3031. We always just called them the Windowmakers for Natasha, after all, in our campaign, Wolf's Dragoons weren't Clan spies It makes for a nice package name theme, the Widowmakers, Black Widow Company and Black Widow Battalion Mech packages, since many of us old BTechs know who the Widowmaker is.

[Bishop Steiner]

stjobe, on 24 July 2015 - 12:41 PM, said:

And in my BattleTech universe, they're just regular (welll, rather exceptional, but you get what I mean) IS mercenaries.

None of that Clan retcon for me, thanks


(Tales of the Black Widow Company, 1985)

Well, technically, there never was a retcon, all the clues were there, from the beginning, and pretty blatant in Wolves on the Border (1989).

Huge Merc force from beyond, mechs either never before seen (annihilator) or not seen since star league, Kerensky, etc.

They were always Clans because the Clan Invasion, was always part of the planned story. Much probably had not been fleshed out, but the entire 1st Edition Mythos was set specifically for Kerensky to Return like King Arthur.

[Bishop Steiner]

Russ made a big spiel about the Wolfs Dragoons being the end goal "unlock" back during the Launch Event fiasco.

So a Dragoons themed Pack for their release makes the most sense, to me.
And then later Heros:
Jaime Wolf - Archer
Natasha Kerensky - Warhammer
The Bounty Hunter - Marauder
Gentleman Johnny Clavell - Rifleman

etc

[stjobe]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 July 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Well, technically, there never was a retcon, all the clues were there, from the beginning, and pretty blatant in Wolves on the Border (1989).

Huge Merc force from beyond, mechs either never before seen (annihilator) or not seen since star league, Kerensky, etc.

They were always Clans because the Clan Invasion, was always part of the planned story. Much probably had not been fleshed out, but the entire 1st Edition Mythos was set specifically for Kerensky to Return like King Arthur.

I beg to differ - I believe that "Clans were always part of the planned story" to be part of the retcon. Wolves on the Border was published just one year before TRO:3050, so may well have been part of the retcon. I know for a fact that the 1985 Tales of the Black Widow does not contain the word "clan" (yes, I've searched the text), nor does it hint very much at all that the company is anything other than really frightfully skilled mercenaries.

But then again it just might be my rose-tinted glasses and burning hatred for all things Clan that impede my recollections Either way, in my BattleTech universe the Clans will never happen

It'll be a sunny 3049 forever, with blue skies and a chance of Armageddon

[Dirus Nigh]

I am getting a little burned out by mechpacks, and MWO. Not sure if I really want the IIC mechs.

However I would put aside money if I knew MWO would get these classic mechs in the game. Basing the MWO models off of Shimmering Swords designs, and or a collaboration with Alex is a big plus.

Still, MWO modeling guys will make them wide as hell.

[Bishop Steiner]

stjobe, on 24 July 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

I beg to differ - I believe that "Clans were always part of the planned story" to be part of the retcon. Wolves on the Border was published just one year before TRO:3050, so may well have been part of the retcon. I know for a fact that the 1985 Tales of the Black Widow does not contain the word "clan" (yes, I've searched the text), nor does it hint very much at all that the company is anything other than really frightfully skilled mercenaries.

But then again it just might be my rose-tinted glasses and burning hatred for all things Clan that impede my recollections Either way, in my BattleTech universe the Clans will never happen

It'll be a sunny 3049 forever, with blue skies and a chance of Armageddon

I'll go with the latter theory, as the 1985 book does leave things intentionally vague and unanswered and doe still reference the strangers from beyond appearing fully equipped out of nowhere in Davion space. The super mysterious character with the name Kerensky (already established as the savior of the star league) and kinda sounding like a rip off of the Marvel Comics black widow character.

Shrug.

[stjobe]

I'm not going to fight you over it - you have your BT universe, I have mine

To bring this back on-topic, I think we both agree that whichever BT universe we're in - yours, mine, PGI's - it is better off with Warhammers, Marauders, Phoenix Hawks, Crusaders, Stingers, and Wasps in it!

Oh, and that our real universe is better off without HG in it

[Alan Davion]

stjobe, on 24 July 2015 - 01:11 PM, said:

I'm not going to fight you over it - you have your BT universe, I have mine

To bring this back on-topic, I think we both agree that whichever BT universe we're in - yours, mine, PGI's - it is better off with Warhammers, Marauders, Phoenix Hawks, Crusaders, Stingers, and Wasps in it!

Oh, and that our real universe is better off without HG in it

Amen to that brother.

[Baphomech]

They can call it "Resurrection: The Classic Collection."

They live! They die! They live again!

[Johnny Z]

Kristov Kerensky, on 24 July 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

True, they were called the Black Widow Company, semi-autonomous unit of Wolf's Dragoons, and they were the Black Widow Battalion as of 3031. We always just called them the Windowmakers for Natasha, after all, in our campaign, Wolf's Dragoons weren't Clan spies It makes for a nice package name theme, the Widowmakers, Black Widow Company and Black Widow Battalion Mech packages, since many of us old BTechs know who the Widowmaker is.

I dont believe the real Natasha Kerensky was a Clan spy. I think that was a Clan trick using their cloning technology and when the real one comes back its not going to be pretty. LOL

[Johnny Z]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 July 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Well, technically, there never was a retcon, all the clues were there, from the beginning, and pretty blatant in Wolves on the Border (1989).

Huge Merc force from beyond, mechs either never before seen (annihilator) or not seen since star league, Kerensky, etc.

They were always Clans because the Clan Invasion, was always part of the planned story. Much probably had not been fleshed out, but the entire 1st Edition Mythos was set specifically for Kerensky to Return like King Arthur.

Are you kidding? No retcon? Its easier to ask what wasnt revisioned. In fact your reply proves my point. Which looks more outdated the 1985 or the 1989? Typical revionist stuff. (I have no idea about these dates myself just taking everyones word for it, although I have seen all the orignal battletech books before in person.)

Has anyone mentioned all the mechs were declared "Unseen" and couldnt be used until recently?



1985



1989



At least this shows some of the original Battletech. About time or what?

Edited by Johnny Z, 24 July 2015 - 01:39 PM.

[Lexx]

I think I can predict what might happen if HG doesn't sue CGL over this, or PGI decides to release the "unseen" for some other reason.

PGI makes an unseen mech pack or packs and we get the Warhammer, Marauder and Rifleman. Everyone buys them because of nostalgia. 6 months later they are released to game and players start making threads about the Warhammer and Marauder being DOA (due to low mounted arm weapons). The Rifleman is the only mech that is considered to be good.

[Alan Davion]

Lexx, on 24 July 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

I think I can predict what might happen if HG doesn't sue CGL over this, or PGI decides to release the "unseen" for some other reason.

PGI makes an unseen mech pack or packs and we get the Warhammer, Marauder and Rifleman. Everyone buys them because of nostalgia. 6 months later they are released to game and players start making threads about the Warhammer and Marauder being DOA (due to low mounted arm weapons). The Rifleman is the only mech that is considered to be good.

Now are you talking about people who know how much punishment those mechs can take and dish back out?

Or about people who don't know a bloody thing about Battletech aside from big stompy mechs with lots of pewpew?

[Lexx]

Alan Davion, on 24 July 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

Now are you talking about people who know how much punishment those mechs can take and dish back out?

Or about people who don't know a bloody thing about Battletech aside from big stompy mechs with lots of pewpew?

I'm talking about how anything that doesn't have high mounted hard points that can carry a lot of ballistic and energy weapons is considered garbage by many in this community. Since so much of the game is peek and poke over cover, low mounted arm weapons put you at a disadvantage. You have to expose too much of your mech to fire.

They wouldn't take any more punishment than any other mech in their tonnage (unless they get armor quirks). It all comes down to how PGI does the hit boxes. They both carry good firepower, but it won't really be more than the mechs we already have.

I'm a little concerned about how PGI would handle the gun on the Marauder. It's a right torso weapon, but visually it's on the centerline of the mech. They will either have to put it off to one side, like the Project Phoenix Marauder (ruining the look), or have it damage the right torso when you hit the gun. If you use an XL engine to fit a gauss rifle up there, you could be taken out too easily, when you thought you were behind cover. At the very least you'd lose your gun and the only high mounted weapon on the mech.

Likewise, since the Warhammer has those torso mounted machine guns, you know players are going to put dual AC/5s there. If those have long barrels, the mech could end up looking pretty silly.

Edited by Lexx, 24 July 2015 - 01:55 PM.

[stjobe]

Lexx, on 24 July 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

I'm a little concerned about how PGI would handle the gun on the Marauder. It's a right torso weapon, but visually it's on the centerline of the mech. They will either have to put it off to one side, like the Project Phoenix Marauder (ruining the look), or have it damage the right torso when you hit the gun. If you use an XL engine to fit a gauss rifle up there, you could be taken out too easily when you thought you were behind cover. At the very least you'd lose your gun and the only high mounted weapon on the mech.

In TT, that AC/5 is a backup weapon to the dual PPCs in the arms, which are the main weapons.

In TT, the AC/5 has half the DPS of just one of the PPCs, but in MWO it has 20% more DPS (3.01) than a PPC (2.5), and a full 60% of the DPS of both PPCs.

The point here being losing it shouldn't put much of a dent in a TT Marauder's ability to fight, but here in crazy la-la-land it's a major setback for several reasons; its location being one, and its damage output being another.

TL;DR: MWO has some seriously fscked up weapon balance even within factions.

[Lexx]

stjobe, on 24 July 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

In TT, that AC/5 is a backup weapon to the dual PPCs in the arms, which are the main weapons.

In TT, the AC/5 has half the DPS of just one of the PPCs, but in MWO it has 20% more DPS (3.01) than a PPC (2.5), and a full 60% of the DPS of both PPCs.

The point here being losing it shouldn't put much of a dent in a TT Marauder's ability to fight, but here in crazy la-la-land it's a major setback for several reasons; its location being one, and its damage output being another.

TL;DR: MWO has some seriously fscked up weapon balance even within factions.

But when you lose that gun, and the toso blows up, you also lose the corresponding arm. If you had a stock Marauder you'd be down to 1 PPC and 1 med laser. All because someone kept shooting at the top of the gun sticking out over your mech.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Lexx, on 24 July 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

I'm a little concerned about how PGI would handle the gun on the Marauder. It's a right torso weapon, but visually it's on the centerline of the mech. They will either have to put it off to one side, like the Project Phoenix Marauder (ruining the look), or have it damage the right torso when you hit the gun. If you use an XL engine to fit a gauss rifle up there, you could be taken out too easily, when you thought you were behind cover.

Shimmering Sword's Marauder has the AC/5 in the RT and it looks like sex.

[Knight Magus]

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