749 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Whammy.

You'll have ~53 tons free with optimal armor (assuming you're not stripping the arms).

You'll have energy hardpoints on each arm, plus each side torso, plus a ballistic on each side.

You could go double gauss with an XL or even double 20s with a STD 275, plus some LAZORs.

You could run 2x PPC and 1x Gauss, 3 tons ammo with an XL325, hitting ~83 KPH and 3 extra DHS in the engine for 43% cooling. Unless you get hardpoint inflation on those arms though you couldn't do it all on the same side.

2xUAC5, 2xLL, XL300 and 6 tons of ammo plus 4 DHS for a very cool running face-humper.

Gauss + 3xLL, xl300, 3 tons of ammo 5 DHS would put you at 50% cooling and 43pts at 450m without modules or quirks for range.

The Warhammer would actually bring a lot of options. While it wouldn't have high mounted hardpoints or JJs it would give a lot of flexibility. Tier 2 or even tier 1 with good hitboxes. She's short and reasonably narrow with a good spread of torso.

The Marauder....

she's more questionable. She'd need harpoint inflation to be competitive. Low slung energy on the arms and ballistics on the torso she's the opposite of something like the Highlander. Backwards from what would actually work best. I'd love her, love her madly and deeply and in the worst possible way but not sure how it'd end up tier 1.

A spider-like Wasp, Stinger and Valkyrie? Absolutely. Marauder II? That actually has a lot of intriguing variants and would be a bang-up 100 ton addition to the IS lineup.

Archer? Questionable, 70 ton missile boat without JJs. Crusader? Same problem only smaller. Rifleman? We've got the Jagermech which is the exact same thing but a bit bigger.

Longbow? Please don't. Dear god please don't inflict an 85 ton LRM assault mech on us. The IS will never field a solid, consistent lineup in CW again because so many people will take an 85 ton missile boat into CW and in so doing screw their whole team against anyone who isn't window licking steeringwheel underhive deaf mute pugs. It would make my heart hurt.

The Whammy and Marauders? Jr. and Senior? They would be genuine rock solid additions to the lineup. The whole insect lights lineup would actually be good too; they all have a good round mix of hardpoints and if handled with a spider/commando eye wouldn't be bad.

[MischiefSC]

I actually made a Twitter account just for this. Tweeted Russ on it. He said 'I will try'.

Ladies, Gentlemen. We have a window of opportunity here. I'm debating singing telegrams and similarly inescapable expressions of just how much we want this. The question is do we send them to PGI or Catalyst?

The flaming bags of dog poo left for Harmony Gold will, of course, continue unabated. I'm also open to bribing Godzilla to just monster walk all over the HG headquarters but that might actually complicate the matter of who owns the IP.

Who do we internet stalk to help move this along? Catalyst? Topps?

We need a plan here folks. Child TV stars have been born, been cute, become drug addicts, burned out and crashed, gone through rehab and then had several seasons of their own TV show before becoming addicts, burning out and fading into obscurity since these mechs become Unseen. We have the first shot at a sexy Whammy not just in TT but online since FRIENDS was in its first season on TV.

[Tigerwolf]

When and where do I send my money?

[Sereglach]

MischiefSC, on 30 July 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

*snip*

While some things I agree with, in regards to their potential, there are other things that I don't think you're giving as much credit to them as they should have. Take a look at some potential variants, their potential hardpoints, and what they'd have to offer for MWO.

Mechs like the Crusader, Archer, and Longbow offer a lot more than you give them credit for.

I think it's worth quoting my research/theory-crafting, again, because so many people are assigning beliefs and roles to chassis in regards to nostalgia, and not what potential they have for MWO. You're meta-building the Warhammer with some MWO potential, but then discrediting several of the others without looking at them in the same light. For example:
1. The Archer should have a relatively narrow torso profile with bulky arms and CT energy hardpoints. It could have great zombie brawling potential with an SRM/Laser loadout. Regardless, most Archers were built with plenty of hitting power outside of being missile support.
2. The Crusader will actually have hardpoints of all three types across many variants, and some jumping variants. There's actually a lot of variety that could come from this mech.
3. The Longbow has some variants that are actually quite energy heavy. It could actually be a highly compact brawler and/or missile support and has some variants with great zombie potential.

Sereglach, on 27 July 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

So, after a package theory-crafting, HERE, I figured I'd try to do another dive into creative theory-crafting and look at what variants we'd get and what their hardpoints could look like in MWO. For stock loadouts, one can easily find them at Sarna.net. I tried to stick to variants that would have the potential to provide flavor and variety, once assigned hardpoints. I know it's not perfect, but that's pretty much impossible to achieve. Everyone will have their own opinions on what "perfect hardpoints" for the variants would be. However, constructive feedback is always appreciated.

Going in order of tonnage:

WASP (20 tons)

Spoiler

WASP common traits: Max Engine 190, RT- 1 AMS
WSP-1A: RA- 2 Energy, LT- 2 Missile, Max JJ- 10
WSP-1K: RA- 2 Energy, LT- 3 Ballistic, Max JJ- 8
WSP-1S: RA- 1 Energy, RT- 2 Energy, LT- 1 Energy and ECM, Max JJ- 6
Bonus
WSP-1W: RA- 2 Energy, RT- 2 Energy, LT- 2 Energy, Max JJ- 8

STINGER (20 tons)

Spoiler

STINGER common traits: Max Engine 190, LT- 1 AMS
STG-3R: RA- 2 Energy and 2 Ballistic, LA- 2 Ballistic, Max JJ- 6
STG-3G: RA- 3 Energy, LA- 3 Energy, Max JJ- 8
STG-5M: RA- 2 Energy and 1 AMS, LA- 2 Energy, Max JJ- 8
Bonus
STG-3Gb: RA- 1 Energy, LA- 1 Energy, CT- 2 Energy, HD- 1 Energy, Max JJ- 7

VALKYRIE (30 tons)

Spoiler

VALKYRIE common traits: Max Engine 285, RT- 1 AMS
VLK-QA: RA- 2 Energy, LT 3 Missile, Max JJ- 6
VLK-QF: RA- 1 Energy, LT 3 Missile and 1 AMS, Max JJ- 8
VLK-QD: RA- 3 Energy, LT 2 Missile, Max JJ- 6
Bonus
VLK-QP: RA- 1 Energy, RT- 1 Missile, LT- 1 Missile, LA- 1 Energy, Max JJ- 6

PHOENIX HAWK (45 tons)

Spoiler

PHOENIX HAWK common traits: LT- 1 AMS
PHX-1: RA- 2 Energy and 1 Ballistic, LA- 2 Energy and 1 Ballistic, Max Engine 300, Max JJ- 8
PHX-2: RA- 3 Energy, CT- ECM, LA- 3 Energy, Max Engine 300, Max JJ- 6
PHX-1K: RA- 2 Energy, CT- 2 Energy, LA- 2 Energy, Max Engine 325, Max JJ- 0
Bonus:
PHX-3D: RA- 2 Energy and 1 AMS, LA- 2 Energy and 1 AMS, Max Engine 300, Max JJ- 8

RIFLEMAN (60 tons)

Spoiler

RIFLEMAN common traits: RT- 1 AMS, Max Engine 325
RFL-3N: RA- 1 Energy and 1 Ballistic, RT- 1 Energy, LT- 1 Energy, LA- 1 Energy and 1 Ballistic
RFL-3C: RA- 2 Ballistic, RT- 1 Energy, LT- 1 Energy, LA- 2 Ballistic
RFL-4D: RA- 3 Energy, LA- 3 Energy
Bonus:
RFL-5D: RA- 2 Energy, CT- 2 Energy, LA- 2 Energy

CRUSADER (65 tons)

Spoiler

CRUSADER common traits: RT- 1 AMS, Max Engine 300
CRD-3R: RA- 1 Missile 2 Energy and 1 Ballistic, RT- 1 Missile, LT- 1 Missile, LA- 1 Missile 2 Energy and 1 Ballistic
CRD-2R: RA- 1 Missile 1 Energy and 1 Ballistic, RT- 2 Missile, LT- 2 Missile, LA- 1 Missile 1 Energy and 1 Ballistic
CRD-3L: RA- 1 Missile 1 Energy and 1 Ballistic, RT- 1 Missile, LT- 1 Missile and 1 AMS, LA- 1 Missile 1 Energy and 1 Ballistic, Max JJ- 6
Bonus:
CRD-4D: RA- 1 Missile 3 Energy, RT- 1 Missile, LT- 1 Missile, LA- 1 Missile 3 Energy

ARCHER (70 tons)

Spoiler

ARCHER common traits: LT- 1 AMS, Max Engine 375
ARC-2R: RA- 1 Energy, RT- 2 Missile, CT- 2 Energy, LT- 2 Missile, LA- 1 Energy
ARC-2K: RA- 3 Energy, RT- 1 Missile, LT- 1 Missile, LA- 3 Energy
ARC-5S: RA- 1 Energy and 1 Missile, RT- 1 Missile, CT- 2 Energy, LT- 1 Missile, LA- 1 Energy and 1 Missile
Bonus:
ARC-2W: RA- 2 Energy, RT- 2 Missile, LT- 2 Missile, LA- 2 Energy

WARHAMMER (70 tons)

Spoiler

WARHAMMER common traits: RT- 1 AMS, Max Engine 350
WHM-6R: RA- 1 Energy, RT- 1 Missile 2 Energy and 1 Ballistic, LT- 2 Energy and 1 Ballistic, LA- 1 Energy
WHM-6L: RA- 1 Energy, RT- 1 Missile and 3 Energy, LT- 3 Energy, LA- 1 Energy
WHM-7M: RA- 1 Energy, RT- 1 Missile 2 Energy, CT- 2 Energy, RT- 2 Energy, LA- 1 Energy
Bonus:
WHM-7S: RA- 1 Energy, RT- 2 Energy and 1 Missile, LT- 2 Energy and 1 Missile, LA- 1 Energy

MARAUDER (75 tons)

Spoiler

MARUADER common traits: Max Engine 375
MAD-3R: RA- 2 Energy, RT- 3 Ballistic, CT- 1 AMS, LA- 2 Energy
MAD-5D: RA- 2 Energy, RT- 1 Energy, CT- 1 AMS, LT- 1 Missile, LA- 2 Energy, Max JJ- 5
MAD-5M: RA- 2 Energy, RT- 2 Ballistic, CT- 1 AMS, LA- 2 Energy, Max JJ- 5
Bonus:
MAD-3D: RA- 3 Energy, RT- 2 Energy, CT- 2 AMS, LA- 3 Energy

LONGBOW (85 tons)

Spoiler

LONGBOW common traits: Max Engine 340, LT- 1 AMS
LBG-7Q: RA- 2 Missile, RT- 2 Energy and 1 Missile, LT- 2 Energy and 1 Missile, LA- 2 Missile
LBG-0C: RA- 1 Missile, RT- 3 Energy, HD- 1 Energy, LT- 3 Energy- LA- 1 Missile
LBG-0W: RA- 3 Missile, RT- 1 Missile and 1 AMS, HD- 1 Energy, LT- 1 Missile, LA- 3 Missile
Bonus:
LBG-7V: RA- 1 Missile, RT- 2 Energy, CT- 2 Energy, HD- 1 Energy, LT- 2 Energy, LA- 1 Missile

EDIT: Added the tonnage of the chassis for those who are unaware.

[FireBlood]

Oh how much I would pay for this!

[RedDevil]

FireBlood, on 30 July 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

Oh how much I would pay for this!

It looks so good! But you know you would get so frustrated trying to play a mech with arm mounts firing from knee height.

[BarHaid]

RedDevil, on 30 July 2015 - 09:51 PM, said:

It looks so good! But you know you would get so frustrated trying to play a mech with arm mounts firing from knee height.

Well, only if you try using your arms at range. A peek-a-boo ballistic up above your cockpit sure sounds nice, and brawler arms (oh please please pleae let us have wicked torso twist and arm range quirks!) for when somebody gets close. There's a lot of potential here.....

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Of course he's going to try. The Unseen are a gold mine waiting to happen.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 30 July 2015 - 10:41 PM, said:

Of course he's going to try. The Unseen are a gold mine waiting to happen.

Yep. Out of any available mechs I believe the Unseen are probably the easiest sell PGI could have fall into their lap. Basically a license to print nostalgia money. Just look at this thread. People are pretty much begging PGI to let us throw Money at them.

[Trev Firestorm]

RedDevil, on 30 July 2015 - 09:51 PM, said:

It looks so good! But you know you would get so frustrated trying to play a mech with arm mounts firing from knee height.

It'll play like a king crab with that weapon layout complete with the arms too low to shield effectively.

[Joseph Mallan]

Trev Firestorm, on 30 July 2015 - 11:41 PM, said:

It'll play like a king crab with that weapon layout complete with the arms too low to shield effectively.

That isn't a bad thing you know.

FireBlood, on 30 July 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

Oh how much I would pay for this!

You do know you will not be able to use the drawing in this game right?

[Jack Gallows]

I haven't really played MW:O much in the last year and a half (or more,) and only play a random drop or two with the guys more recently so I don't actually care how this effects MW:O.

That said, still super excited about this but very hesitant to believe it until we start seeing some real traction from CGL (and Harebrained Schemes new Battletech game, which I'll be throwing my money at over MW:O any day,) and see if Harmony Gold saddles up for another lawsuit because these mechs don't look THAT different. We probably don't know the whole story, though, that would make CGL believe they can do this now.

So, not going to give money to PGI (haven't seen the original Phoenix pack and regret that to this day,) and going to toss chunks of it at Harebrained hoping they can give us a great 'mech game.

pbiggz, on 30 July 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

please note, the unseens will almost certainly appear in the new turn based battletech game by harebrained schemes. The game that is meant to share art with MWO.

thus, alex iglesias is almost certainly creating the art that will be shared with harebrained schemes right now, that same art that will almost certainly be in MWO.

Alex worked for the tabletop area first doing designs for them and they asked him to do stuff for MW:O, so, it's really not that hard a stretch to understand that he might help keep things visually similar between MW:O and the new game too as we've seen his style of 'mechs on their new pictures.

That Warhammer from CGL looks like Shimmering Sword either did it or massively influenced it and I'm sure a lot of the unseen either have his hand or Alex's on them, which is just the best we could ask for.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 31 July 2015 - 11:20 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 30 July 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

Whammy.

You'll have ~53 tons free with optimal armor (assuming you're not stripping the arms).

You'll have energy hardpoints on each arm, plus each side torso, plus a ballistic on each side.

You could go double gauss with an XL or even double 20s with a STD 275, plus some LAZORs.

You could run 2x PPC and 1x Gauss, 3 tons ammo with an XL325, hitting ~83 KPH and 3 extra DHS in the engine for 43% cooling. Unless you get hardpoint inflation on those arms though you couldn't do it all on the same side.

2xUAC5, 2xLL, XL300 and 6 tons of ammo plus 4 DHS for a very cool running face-humper.

Gauss + 3xLL, xl300, 3 tons of ammo 5 DHS would put you at 50% cooling and 43pts at 450m without modules or quirks for range.

The Warhammer would actually bring a lot of options. While it wouldn't have high mounted hardpoints or JJs it would give a lot of flexibility. Tier 2 or even tier 1 with good hitboxes. She's short and reasonably narrow with a good spread of torso.

The Marauder....

she's more questionable. She'd need harpoint inflation to be competitive. Low slung energy on the arms and ballistics on the torso she's the opposite of something like the Highlander. Backwards from what would actually work best. I'd love her, love her madly and deeply and in the worst possible way but not sure how it'd end up tier 1.

A spider-like Wasp, Stinger and Valkyrie? Absolutely. Marauder II? That actually has a lot of intriguing variants and would be a bang-up 100 ton addition to the IS lineup.

Archer? Questionable, 70 ton missile boat without JJs. Crusader? Same problem only smaller. Rifleman? We've got the Jagermech which is the exact same thing but a bit bigger.

Longbow? Please don't. Dear god please don't inflict an 85 ton LRM assault mech on us. The IS will never field a solid, consistent lineup in CW again because so many people will take an 85 ton missile boat into CW and in so doing screw their whole team against anyone who isn't window licking steeringwheel underhive deaf mute pugs. It would make my heart hurt.

The Whammy and Marauders? Jr. and Senior? They would be genuine rock solid additions to the lineup. The whole insect lights lineup would actually be good too; they all have a good round mix of hardpoints and if handled with a spider/commando eye wouldn't be bad.

53 tons out of 70? Is that without an engine, I suppose? realistically, everything starts at a 280, and probably tops out at a 325 for the whammy. Should just start your "available" tonnage there, IMO.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 31 July 2015 - 07:55 AM.

[M4rtyr]

Jack Gallows, on 31 July 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

I haven't really played MW:O much in the last year and a half (or more,) and only play a random drop or two with the guys more recently so I don't actually care how this effects MW:O.

That said, still super excited about this but very hesitant to believe it until we start seeing some real traction from CGL (and Harebrained Schemes new Battletech game, which I'll be throwing my money at over MW:O any day,) and see if Harmony Gold saddles up for another lawsuit because they mechs don't look THAT different. We probably don't know the whole story, though, that would make CGL believe they can do this now.

So, not going to give money to PGI (haven't seen the original Phoenix pack and regret that to this day,) and going to toss chunks of it at Harebrained hoping they can give us a great 'mech game.

LOL, poor PGI... I have a feeling this is the case for many, I know it applies to me as well. We're more excited just to have them back, especially with HBS coming out with their game and the TT potential.

If they ever get this game playing better then I'll be very happy to walk the battlefield in a WHM, like I dreamed of back when the accouncement teaser trailer.

[MischiefSC]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 30 July 2015 - 10:41 PM, said:

Of course he's going to try. The Unseen are a gold mine waiting to happen.

As part of the gold in that mine, we are banging on the wall wanting to get dug out.

This thread is the most positive thread in the forums pretty much right now. I made several posts ASKING FOR GOLD MECHS and didn't get flamed. The Clan mechs created (in TT and here) a lot of hard feelings. There are no negatives to the Unseen. Let's be honest; they could quirk the Warhammer/Marauder up to Timber Wolf levels and you wouldn't see a lot of backlash.

As a community, not just in MW:O right now but in BT overall, there hasn't been this much excitement over anything in a long time. Both Harebrained Schemes release of a turn based BT game and the rework of the Unseen. There's no negatives here; this is people wanting to pay money and goodwill for this. The artwork is largely already done - and by THE SAME GUY.

Just no way this can go wrong.

[Alan Davion]

MischiefSC, on 31 July 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

Just no way this can go wrong.

Let's just pray to ComStar that HG doesn't find some micro-bleeding-scopic thing to get sue-happy on over the classics coming back.

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 July 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

53 tons out of 70? Is that without an engine, I suppose? realistically, everything starts at a 280, and probably tops out at a 325 for the whammy. Should just start your "available" tonnage there, IMO.

Depending on engine size and XL or not you're generally hitting 33-37 tons of weapons. Between 6-8 energy hardpoints and a couple torso ballistic and missile hardpoints depending on variant. short, reasonably narrow, no JJs.

She's got all the hallmarks of a hard working girl with a lot of flexibility. Really, isn't that what we all want?

Alan Davion, on 31 July 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

Let's just pray to ComStar that HG doesn't find some micro-bleeding-scopic thing to get sue-happy on over the classics coming back.

Which is why we need a Mission Impossible strike team to leave flaming bags of dog poo on their doorstop every day. Keep them occupied and distracted. Putting you in charge of that. Make it happen.

[M4rtyr]

MischiefSC, on 31 July 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

Which is why we need a Mission Impossible strike team to leave flaming bags of dog poo on their doorstop every day. Keep them occupied and distracted. Putting you in charge of that. Make it happen.

See the problem is and true Unseen lover wouldn't be leaving the dog poo on the doorstep... it'd be all over the building.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 31 July 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

Depending on engine size and XL or not you're generally hitting 33-37 tons of weapons. Between 6-8 energy hardpoints and a couple torso ballistic and missile hardpoints depending on variant. short, reasonably narrow, no JJs.

She's got all the hallmarks of a hard working girl with a lot of flexibility. Really, isn't that what we all want?



Which is why we need a Mission Impossible strike team to leave flaming bags of dog poo on their doorstop every day. Keep them occupied and distracted. Putting you in charge of that. Make it happen.

yeah....I'm thinking if speed ain't an issue, something like max armor, endo, 300xl, 2x PPC, 5x MLs and 1x AC10 with 15 DHS would make me smile. On my WHM-6R. (since bare minimum it will have 3E/1M/1B in the RT, 3E/1B/probably 1AMS LT, and probably a single E in each arm.

Of course, meta wise, will probably see people try to squeeze in 2 AC10 and like 8 MLs, somehow, or at least 2x UC5/LB-X and 6-( MLs, maybe using the iconic cannon arms as shields. (vomitous thought)

Marauder will need some hardpoint inflation, and my old fave, the MAD-3D will probably end up some sort of laservomit (though it least it's pod arms shouldn't look too horrible with lasers....and some variants, lasers were stock) but would love to see the 3R get a dual Ballistic slot in the RT and maybe 3 energy per arm.

Archer-2S and CRD-3L were mechs I liked a lot too, along with the Phoenix Hawk which could be good.

..the more I think of the utter butchery the MetaLords will commit to them, maybe I don't want them...or their needs to be some sort of "No Min/Max Sword and Board Metawhoring clause in the ownership contract........

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 July 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

yeah....I'm thinking if speed ain't an issue, something like max armor, endo, 300xl, 2x PPC, 5x MLs and 1x AC10 with 15 DHS would make me smile. On my WHM-6R. (since bare minimum it will have 3E/1M/1B in the RT, 3E/1B/probably 1AMS LT, and probably a single E in each arm.

Of course, meta wise, will probably see people try to squeeze in 2 AC10 and like 8 MLs, somehow, or at least 2x UC5/LB-X and 6-( MLs, maybe using the iconic cannon arms as shields. (vomitous thought)

Marauder will need some hardpoint inflation, and my old fave, the MAD-3D will probably end up some sort of laservomit (though it least it's pod arms shouldn't look too horrible with lasers....and some variants, lasers were stock) but would love to see the 3R get a dual Ballistic slot in the RT and maybe 3 energy per arm.

Archer-2S and CRD-3L were mechs I liked a lot too, along with the Phoenix Hawk which could be good.

..the more I think of the utter butchery the MetaLords will commit to them, maybe I don't want them...or their needs to be some sort of "No Min/Max Sword and Board Metawhoring clause in the ownership contract........

Don't sweat it. Honestly? They pull this off and we can put some real time into creating a proper 3025 League. PGI wants some e-sports stuff? That's never going to be metawhoring minmax with 3 chassis. It'll get boring and fast. A 3025 using stock mechs and original BT Buy Value rules but played out in private matches 12 v 12?

I'd watch it. Wouldn't you? All the people who play top tier comp stuff generally agree that they do NOT like the cookie-cutter aspect but if you're in it to win you're in it to win. You make the rules of the game one that promotes a funner environment. For people who enjoy the winning more than the playing you just make winning involve 'playing'. Make sense?

Not kidding. I'd put money into league rewards, like backer packages to HBS' new game or gift bundles from MW:O and the like.

A 3025 League with Unseen mechs in the mix and some old school rules? Bonus points for style? We could put something really awesome together that way. Would likely be a decent draw for some of the oldschool BT fanbois (like us) who've drifted away.