121 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 July 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

I'll take +10 armor on all components, and 50 % Gauss and ER Laser cooldown range increase.

FTFY.

Just position up high -- really high -- and shoot heads off. People do not seem to look up anyway.

Edited by Mystere, 26 July 2015 - 10:08 AM.

[Wolfwood592]

Paigan, on 26 July 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

Hohoho SHC worthless.
Hihihi
Hehehe

L2p, seriously.
Not every Mech need tons of raw weaponry to be effective.

SHC will be borderline imba even if Guardian ECM shrunk down to its actual proper form of being strictly owner-mech.


Edit:
No, wait.... Yes! Yes, SHC is too weak. It needs serious buffing!
Like, let me think, double weapon quirks. Heat quirks. MOAR of everything.
Yes, YES!

It does need that much firepower if you aren't willing to play a mech properly :/ lo;

[Moment Killer]

Just be glad you didn't get the clan version of the Trebuchet!

[-Vompo-]

Shadowcat worthless? Sure it's not the best medium in the game. There are even couple of IS mediums in game which are better but they have very different roles.

Shadowcat is a bit like the Vindicator but better in every way. Few weapons but very manueverable. Unlike the Vindicator the Shadowcat has high mounted weapons, ECM, better jump distance, clan engine, clan heatsinks and clan weapons (with most mechs I wouldn't even mention this because the higher heat but with only couple of energy slots the heat isn't a massive problem)

It's a shame op didn't mention any other medium as being worthless.

[Deathlike]

Moment Killer, on 26 July 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

Just be glad you didn't get the clan version of the Trebuchet!

There is one?

*hides*

[Monkey Lover]

If i knew it was only 10% i wouldnt have bought the shadow cat. Russ trolled me again.

[Novakaine]

[C E Dwyer]

Good god is this really, an its not fair our shiny new mech isn't as good as your old mech so I'm going to stamp my foot and have a tantrum like a spoiled seven year old thread ?

[Mcgral18]

VompoVompatti, on 26 July 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

Shadowcat worthless? Sure it's not the best medium in the game. There are even couple of IS mediums in game which are better but they have very different roles.

Shadowcat is a bit like the Vindicator but better in every way. Few weapons but very manueverable. Unlike the Vindicator the Shadowcat has high mounted weapons, ECM, better jump distance, clan engine, clan heatsinks and clan weapons (with most mechs I wouldn't even mention this because the higher heat but with only couple of energy slots the heat isn't a massive problem)

It's a shame op didn't mention any other medium as being worthless.

Heat isn't a massive problem?


Not sure what the hell you've been using. 3 MPLs overheat in no time with 18 DHS. You cannot use the 2 LPL build without being an absolute blast furnace before doubled basics, because 3 extra DHS aren't enough to keep them at a reasonable level.


I'm having people say the Vindi is better...I'll say it's a very mediocre robot that's gimped in all the wrong ways.

Not enough tonnage for big weapons, not enough hardpoints to boat small ones. MASC being generally underwhelming and a poor use of 2 tons. 6 JJs being overkill in most regards.


3 tons for removal of MASC and 2JJs? Yep, that would make it a more reasonable robot. Buffing MASC to not be a waste of 2 tons? Reasonable. 130-140 Kph for 7.5 seconds is still pretty sad, but better. 125 Kph for 30 seconds? That would be different.

An additional ST to replace the ECM? 2-3E hardpoints? Now that's a decision. Jesus Box, or reasonable firepower?


As it stands, hot weapons, SRMs, not enough heatsinks, bad MASC, lots of JJs.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mcgral18, on 26 July 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

Heat isn't a massive problem?


Not sure what the hell you've been using. 3 MPLs overheat in no time with 18 DHS. You cannot use the 2 LPL build without being an absolute blast furnace before doubled basics, because 3 extra DHS aren't enough to keep them at a reasonable level.


I'm having people say the Vindi is better...I'll say it's a very mediocre robot that's gimped in all the wrong ways.

Not enough tonnage for big weapons, not enough hardpoints to boat small ones. MASC being generally underwhelming and a poor use of 2 tons. 6 JJs being overkill in most regards.


3 tons for removal of MASC and 2JJs? Yep, that would make it a more reasonable robot. Buffing MASC to not be a waste of 2 tons? Reasonable. 130-140 Kph for 7.5 seconds is still pretty sad, but better. 125 Kph for 30 seconds? That would be different.

An additional ST to replace the ECM? 2-3E hardpoints? Now that's a decision. Jesus Box, or reasonable firepower?


As it stands, hot weapons, SRMs, not enough heatsinks, bad MASC, lots of JJs.

It IS a reasonable robot!

Seriously.. it isn't a Stormcrow, but that doesn't make it a slouch.

[Moment Killer]

To Mcgral18:

I don't understand the 2 LPL build. If they want range, why don't they do 1 LPL and 2 ERML then use the extra weight for heat sinks?

[ScarecrowES]

Mcgral18, on 26 July 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

Heat isn't a massive problem?


Not sure what the hell you've been using. 3 MPLs overheat in no time with 18 DHS. You cannot use the 2 LPL build without being an absolute blast furnace before doubled basics, because 3 extra DHS aren't enough to keep them at a reasonable level.


I'm having people say the Vindi is better...I'll say it's a very mediocre robot that's gimped in all the wrong ways.

Not enough tonnage for big weapons, not enough hardpoints to boat small ones. MASC being generally underwhelming and a poor use of 2 tons. 6 JJs being overkill in most regards.


3 tons for removal of MASC and 2JJs? Yep, that would make it a more reasonable robot. Buffing MASC to not be a waste of 2 tons? Reasonable. 130-140 Kph for 7.5 seconds is still pretty sad, but better. 125 Kph for 30 seconds? That would be different.

An additional ST to replace the ECM? 2-3E hardpoints? Now that's a decision. Jesus Box, or reasonable firepower?


As it stands, hot weapons, SRMs, not enough heatsinks, bad MASC, lots of JJs.

I tend to echo everything here. If this was TT, the Scat would be just as as good to have along as it ever was. Unfortunately, in MWO, everything the SCat is good at goes against what's actually required for a decent mech. Unless you're a light, mobility only counts for so much, and ultimately that's because mobility is all lights have. They sacrifice high output for being able to stay out of trouble. The SCat is too big and too slow to stay out of trouble like a light. But it also doesn't have the firepower you'd expect from a full medium. Now... if MASC worked the way it's supposed to, and you could burst up to light-levels of speed and agility, this might be a different story. I could probably handle less firepower if we had light-level mobility thanks to proper MASC implementation. That would make the SCat a dedicated flanker and striker, which it just can't do properly right now.

Normally, I'd have ranked the SCat well above the Vindi, but the Vindi just has advantages the SCat doesn't have... like not being saddled with fixed equipment that work against it's best potential builds. That's why a lot of people still prefer the aweful Vindi to the SCat.

[Mcgral18]

Moment Killer, on 26 July 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

To Mcgral18:

I don't understand the 2 LPL build. If they want range, why don't they do 1 LPL and 2 ERML then use the extra weight for heat sinks?

That's what you're forced to do.


Dat 27 alpha.

[ScarecrowES]

Moment Killer, on 26 July 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

To Mcgral18:

I don't understand the 2 LPL build. If they want range, why don't they do 1 LPL and 2 ERML then use the extra weight for heat sinks?

Mostly because in the 2nd build you're sacrificing both damage and the range required to keep out of trouble for coolness you can't really make use of anyway because you're engaging at shorter range and in more dangerous scenarios that the SCat can't handle.

[GeistHrafn]

I don't think it's (masc) intended to be used as a speed boost in that mech. But putting in a big jump, then instantly accelerating away when you hit the ground is amazing. Using it to pre-boost your jump speed as well.

I don't really see an issue with ECM radius being smaller, like others have said, you're not meant to run with the big guys.

Edited by Rhazien, 26 July 2015 - 10:54 AM.

[Paigan]

MASC in MWO is much better than in TT.
It brings a lot of additional agility and it's the agility that counts.
The speed bonus is hardly relevant. Maybe 15% would be nice for mediums, but I can live with 10%.

[Moment Killer]

Mcgral18, on 26 July 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

That's what you're forced to do.


Dat 27 alpha.

http://i.imgur.com/6K2rZEc.jpg?1

That was with 1 LPL 3 ML. 26 Alpha. No jj's, no masc, no ecm.

[o0Marduk0o]

CrushLibs, on 26 July 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

The EXE gets a 13 kph or 18+% speed increase that Scat only gets 10% or 10.7 kph

So the assault gets more of a buff from masc than the scat?? get real PGI and balance the masc to 18% or 20% where it should be.

I guess you are not aware that the EXE's MASC weights more. Furthermore only misguided players use MASC for the speed buff.

You should really try to get better at Shadow Cat'ting.

Moment Killer, on 26 July 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

I don't understand the 2 LPL build. If they want range, why don't they do 1 LPL and 2 ERML then use the extra weight for heat sinks?

This one works like a charm and stays cool enough for longer engagements.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 26 July 2015 - 11:15 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Moment Killer, on 26 July 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

http://i.imgur.com/6K2rZEc.jpg?1

That was with 1 LPL 3 ML. 26 Alpha. No jj's, no masc, no ecm.

Also 19 heat unquirked VS 22.


With current quirks, that's 405M MLs with .7s durations and 15.9 heat per alpha.


Not sure what engine, but a 300 allows for 15 heatsinks and 130 Kph.

That's VS 16 heatsinks on the SHC, with ~450M ERMLs.



Cicada's looking pretty good in comparison.

[Moment Killer]

But with the Shadow Cat can't you do other things? Asking because I don't know, can't wait until they're out on c-bills. But can you do hit and runs faster around a corner because of the masc? Plus the jj's, is it easy to draw someone to low ground and then just jump back up and pick them off, or leave them down there?