121 replies to this topic

[Paigan]

Moment Killer, on 26 July 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

But with the Shadow Cat can't you do other things? Asking because I don't know, can't wait until they're out on c-bills. But can you do hit and runs faster around a corner because of the masc? Plus the jj's, is it easy to draw someone to low ground and then just jump back up and pick them off, or leave them down there?

That.
I have the SHC mastered and you can peek incredibly fast once you're trained in using MASC.
Among other things.

[Dinochrome]

Hailz Mechwarriors:

Well here is my two cents worth, if you bought this mech because you thought it was an overpowered mech that you could use it to beat everybody down you are misinformed. In all the video games where this mech was featured, it has been touted as the cat's meow. MW3 comes to mind 13 small laser on a Shadowcat. That is misleading.

My understanding according to BT which I have been told is the guiding light about MWO mech design, in this game shadowcat is fairly close to accurate. It is one of the iconic mechs, not an overpowered mech I own this mech, I have driven it and it works well. As far as ECM, I have already voiced my opinion. I hope they nerf ECM to 60 meters asap.

V/R Dinochrome

[ScarecrowES]

Moment Killer, on 26 July 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

But with the Shadow Cat can't you do other things? Asking because I don't know, can't wait until they're out on c-bills. But can you do hit and runs faster around a corner because of the masc? Plus the jj's, is it easy to draw someone to low ground and then just jump back up and pick them off, or leave them down there?

Hit and runs like you're talking about (we'd call that poking) requires a high alpha to be effective. Currently, the only high alphas with the SCat are achieved with SRM's. Thus, if the target you're trying to poke at is standing in the open, unmoving, within 270m, you can almost poke as good as mechs 10tons lighter than you. Otherwise, whatever target you're likely to be poking at will have a much higher alpha than you, and with low armor and not-great hitboxes, you'd likely be dead in 2 pokes anyway. MASC doesn't provide much of a speed boost, and doesn't give you a noticable increase in turning. So the only use it has is for when you're inevitably caught in a position you're not supposed to be in, you might be able to get up to speed slightly faster and run around a corner - if there is one. Of course, if you just brought a 35-ton mech instead, you'd be able to accelerate that fast anyway... plus you'd have the advantage of smallness and nimbleness to match.

The JJs are great for getting into places where other mechs can't really go. On top of buildings, etc. Sadly, there is no cover in these types of places, so you're just setting yourself us as a big target. You don't need more than 2 JJs to help with mobility, and no more than 4 to clear most low buildings in the game with the SCat. 6 is overkill.

[Mcgral18]

ScarecrowES, on 26 July 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

Otherwise, whatever target you're likely to be poking at will have a much higher alpha than you, and with low armor and not-great hitboxes, you'd likely be dead in 2 pokes anyway. MASC doesn't provide much of a speed boost, and doesn't give you a noticable increase in turning.

It does give a 25% Turning boost, but no twisting boost.


sCrow still twists faster than this, but at least it's not competing with every Clam light, now that one has a decent sized engine. It's only faster than half of the Clam lights.

[Greenjulius]

Sarlic, on 26 July 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

Obvious you are playing the mech wrong.

• It got MASC, what else you want? Use it properly.
  
• It can jump high.
  
• Pretty agile and good hitboxes.
  
• Low HPs, but decent profile mech...

It's not the mech. It's the pilot.

Have your run the Scat?

Just to break the "IS Player vs Clan Player" stalemate... I find this mech to be utter trash. I love the other 3 mechs in Wave 3, but have had nothing but dissapointing experiences with the Scat.

Slow, undergunned, made of glass and hampered by a terrible implementation of MASC. Only solution to making it a competent mech is hard point inflation or fixing MASC to not just be 2 wasted tons.

I find it hard to believe anyone who has actually taken this mech out would think it COULD EVER be better than the Cheetah. The Cheetah dominates this mech in all categories.

Among 45 tonners, it is a distant 2nd after Blackjacks. The BJ-1X makes the Shadowcat its *****. I know this, because I dominate in it.

Edited by Greenjulius, 26 July 2015 - 12:06 PM.

[Greenjulius]

Mcgral18, on 26 July 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

As it stands, hot weapons, SRMs, not enough heatsinks, bad MASC, lots of JJs.

That is about as good a description as it needs unfortunately. I find it amusing that it is fighting with the Vindicator for 2nd place in the 45 tonner category, yet some people think it could potentially be OP if it was improved.

[CtrlAltWheee]

The scat is pretty good already.

Given clan weapons, good hardpoint setups, jjs, easy ecm on any build. I like it.

[Alistair Winter]

I never thought the S-cat would be very good, so I was never disappointed. It's not worthless or terrible unless you're speaking in terms of elite competition. For 90% of the player population, the S-Cat is firmly in the category of mediocre mechs, bordering on good.

My KDR for S-cats is definitely above average for my mechs, and my WLR is also quite good. I don't have a lot of 800+ dmg matches, but that's not what the S-cat is about either.

[Shalune]

ScarecrowES, on 26 July 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

You DO realize that if the 2 tons from MASC had been put into the engine instead, the SCat would actually run faster and be more maneuverable 100% of the time than it currently is for 7 seconds WITH MASC?

The reason it's great has nothing to do with the speed boost.

Quote

• Acceleration bonus: +175%
  
• Deceleration bonus: +150%
  
• Turn rate bonus: +25%

Read your patch notes people.

Edited by Shalune, 26 July 2015 - 12:28 PM.

[Greenjulius]

Alistair Winter, on 26 July 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

I never thought the S-cat would be very good, so I was never disappointed. It's not worthless or terrible unless you're speaking in terms of elite competition. For 90% of the player population, the S-Cat is firmly in the category of mediocre mechs, bordering on good.

My KDR for S-cats is definitely above average for my mechs, and my WLR is also quite good. I don't have a lot of 800+ dmg matches, but that's not what the S-cat is about either.

What builds do you run?

[Alistair Winter]

Greenjulius, on 26 July 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

What builds do you run?

S-cat Prime: 1 Gauss, 2 ER ML + ECM. (keeping the gauss dream alive)
S-cat A: 2 ML, 3SRM6A + ECM (This used to be a 3xLRM10 lurmboat. Also good)
S-cat B: 2LPL, 1ML + ECM
S-cat P: UAC10, 2ML + ECM

I don't get the people running twin PPCs really. Seems like the Nova is much better for that.

[ScarecrowES]

Shalune, on 26 July 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

The reason it's great has nothing to do with the speed boost.


Read your patch notes people.

So much derp.

300XL engine... which is what you'd get if you dumped the 2 MASC tons directly into engine, would give more speed than MASC provides 100% of the time. It would also provide bonuses to acceleration, deceleration, turning, twist, whatever. Not as much as MASC, but still 100% of the time.

The 25% boost in turning is not even noticeable with MASC on, and the accel/decel bonuses would be great on a mech that could actually USE them for something... a la the Executioner. You can't poke with a mech that can't pack a high alpha and the SCat certainly can't do that - it's the only thing accel/decel bonuses are good for.

It's a 2-ton paperweight right now.

[Mystere]

Moment Killer, on 26 July 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

But with the Shadow Cat can't you do other things? Asking because I don't know, can't wait until they're out on c-bills. But can you do hit and runs faster around a corner because of the masc? Plus the jj's, is it easy to draw someone to low ground and then just jump back up and pick them off, or leave them down there?

I load up a Gauss or 2 AC2s, find a perch way up high, and shoot anyone and everyone who do not bother looking above them. I've seen so many people go in circles desperately trying to find out who has been dismembering them.

ScarecrowES, on 26 July 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

The JJs are great for getting into places where other mechs can't really go. On top of buildings, etc. Sadly, there is no cover in these types of places, so you're just setting yourself us as a big target. You don't need more than 2 JJs to help with mobility, and no more than 4 to clear most low buildings in the game with the SCat. 6 is overkill.

You'd be surprised just how many do not even bother looking up.

Edited by Mystere, 26 July 2015 - 12:50 PM.

[Greenjulius]

Mystere, on 26 July 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

I load up a Gauss or 2 AC2s, find a perch way up high, and shoot anyone and everyone who do not bother looking above them. I've seen so many people go in circles desperately trying to find out who has been dismembering them.



You'd be surprised just how many do not even bother looking up.

With only 5-6 tons of ammo for the AC2s, you won't be doing much damage for long. And gauss? With ECM, you only have 3 tons. That's without even bringing backup ERSL or ERML. SCAT is pathetic with ballistics. It can however run a UAC10 alright with 2xERSL.

[Mystere]

Greenjulius, on 26 July 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

With only 5-6 tons of ammo for the AC2s, you won't be doing much damage for long. And gauss? With ECM, you only have 3 tons. That's without even bringing backup ERSL or ERML. SCAT is pathetic with ballistics. It can however run a UAC10 alright with 2xERSL.

I go for legs, arms, cockpit, and back. So ammo is enough. Besides, I have 2 ERSLs for backup just in case. Finally, I also let my teammates finish the job.

Edited by Mystere, 26 July 2015 - 01:15 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Greenjulius, on 26 July 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

With only 5-6 tons of ammo for the AC2s, you won't be doing much damage for long. And gauss? With ECM, you only have 3 tons. That's without even bringing backup ERSL or ERML. SCAT is pathetic with ballistics. It can however run a UAC10 alright with 2xERSL.

UAC10 + 2ERML + ECM works fine. It's one of the builds I think actually works well for the mech, in addition to the SRM + ERML builds.

Still, both are done better on other mechs.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 26 July 2015 - 01:10 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

it seems op knows barely anything about ecm
that bubble range nerf almost doesn't affect the personal usage of ecm for snipers like shc, and for close range brawlers like ach it may even be a buff of the personal usage (it makes them easier to sneak on the target); well it makes them harder to shut down bap i.e. to swarm a streakboat but we are not supposed to have 6+ ecm mechs per team, either bap needs a serious buff or ecm needs a bubble nerf

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 26 July 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[Yellonet]

Both the scat and cheetah are pretty OP, they are fast and small but can still dish out some pain, but even more strange seems that they can take much more damage then they should be able to... I've been in combat against them many times and they are always very tough to take down, how much armour do they have??

[InspectorG]

CrushLibs, on 26 July 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

If 6 locked JJs , dirt poor Masc (10 kph) , high heat , mediocre armor and weapon slots isn't bad enough now the ECM is being nerfed soon (180m to 90m).

Can we get a Scat that has some balls

1. ditch or increase MASC ,, rather have a XL 280 in it than Masc or increase Masc to 20% so it can atleast go 130 kph for 7 secs.

2. on all clan mechs allow users to remove JJs this is a stupid fixed hardpoint like the flamer on the puma. Its bad enough no engine or armor changes are allowed.

3. Scat needs a small buff to the HUGE side torsos that PGI decided to use.

Having high mounted weapons is nice and all but not a game changer,, to have one of the most renown clan mechs reduced to a long range sniper mech with no ammo is very very sad indeed.

Please for the love of Pete fix this mech to at least be competitive/playable. Hell my Puma does a better job and that's just wrong.

MASC in MWO is for AGILITY, not SPEED.

In BT Speed determined to-hit modifiers.

In MWO, changing direction/reversing quickly determines if you get hit(peeking from cover/ spurt of speed to throw off enemy aim/ sharper turns in 1 vs 1...)

Barking up the wrong tree here, people.

SCat follows the trend of the Lynx, Summoner, perhaps even the AC.

You are trading firepower for mobility. In MWO's 'system'(mess that it is) wont work with a simple conversion from BT.

Too many things were altered for better or worse.

Go watch the people doing well in the SCat and see what they are doing differently. I bet they dont brawl or sit still.

[Greenjulius]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

Both the scat and cheetah are pretty OP, they are fast and small but can still dish out some pain, but even more strange seems that they can take much more damage then they should be able to... I've been in combat against them many times and they are always very tough to take down, how much armour do they have??

Technically, less than a Blackjack after quirks.