264 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

Points don't mean jack.
The wins are what counts.
However you do it.
I cracked up one time when some n00b told me they scored more points than I did.
I quickly typed.
"Yup you sure showed me, but you're still the loser.
Here I'll give you one of these.

[Mavairo]

Novakaine, on 27 July 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Points don't mean jack.
The wins are what counts.
However you do it.
I cracked up one time when some n00b told me they scored more points than I did.
I quickly typed.
"Yup you sure showed me, but you're still the loser.
Here I'll give you one of these.

Yeah that win, you were proud enough to post, had very little to do with your 441 spread out dmg and a whole lot more to do with the guy that racked up 1100.

Like I said, LRMS Suck and fail as a weapon system in mwo, and getting 441 dmg, is nothing to write home about if it were direct fire weaponry.

441, with LRMs on the other hand is.
And that's the problem.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

death to all LRMuers

[Nightmare1]

Looking at the OP's join date, I see that he is a newbie. That being said, LRMs are often used in the lower Elo matches because of their lack of skill required for effective use. As you climb higher into the upper Elo branches, you see LRMs less and less.

LRMs are far from overpowered right now and are actually at a fairly nice point in the game. There are enough ECM counters available for them to be effective area denial tools, yet not so much that they fully invalidate ECM.

Just be patient, once you ascend from the new player ranks, your matches will get better.

On a side note, another factor that is probably fueling the LRM craze in your game is the ongoing Challenge. That tends to make all the no-skills crazy as everyone goes gung-ho LRMs to try and get that magical 30 on their match scores. Once the Event settles down, you will see less LRMs again.

Mavairo, on 27 July 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

Yeah that win, you were proud enough to post, had very little to do with your 441 spread out dmg and a whole lot more to do with the guy that racked up 1100.

Like I said, LRMS Suck and fail as a weapon system in mwo, and getting 441 dmg, is nothing to write home about if it were direct fire weaponry.

441, with LRMs on the other hand is.
And that's the problem.

If a person can't get 800 damage with an LRM Assault Mech, then they're doing it wrong.

[Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law]

Novakaine, on 27 July 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Points don't mean jack.
The wins are what counts.
However you do it.
I cracked up one time when some n00b told me they scored more points than I did.
I quickly typed.
"Yup you sure showed me, but you're still the loser.
Here I'll give you one of these.

I may not have contributed to a match due to my preference of spraying LRMS all over the place, but my team won, thus I am better than you - please see the attached local newspaper cartoon


lol

[Nightmare1]

MadWOPR, on 27 July 2015 - 03:00 PM, said:

I may not have contributed to a match due to my preference of spraying LRMS all over the place, but my team won, thus I am better than you - please see the attached local newspaper cartoon


lol

That's about the sum of it.

[Richter Kerensky]

Novakaine, on 27 July 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Points don't mean jack.
The wins are what counts.
However you do it.
I cracked up one time when some n00b told me they scored more points than I did.
I quickly typed.
"Yup you sure showed me, but you're still the loser.
Here I'll give you one of these.

Is this guy serious? He can't be serious.

[Jack Booted Thug]

to OP, sorry about last night, it had been a while since I had taken my lurm warhawk out to play.

[Screech]

Jman5, on 27 July 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

It's always interesting how polarizing LRMs are in this community. How come we never have heated discussions about Small lasers?

I think you can thank the foresight of PGI on this one. I do believe that the clan er small laser is the most nerfed clan weapon to date. So Paul has effectively pulled a "Minority Report" our future complaints.

[AEgg]

I don't think the problem with LRMs is strictly that they're too strong by themselves. It's that their presence turns games into stalemates. If the other team has one or two LRM boats, you can't ever be exposed, anywhere, or you'll have them all firing on you at once. LRMs are instant, effortless focus fire unlike any other weapon in the game.

One LRM boat effectively makes every ally within ~800m too much of a threat to engage alone. Sure, the LRMs won't do a whole lot at longer ranges, but you have to run away from them instantly anyway, giving whoever you are actually trying to fight a big advantage.

Everyone says LRMs are no threat because you can avoid them, but you have to avoid them, that's the whole point.

Yes, you can counter LRMs with a lot of things, but their presence will still dictate the terms of the match (unless your entire team has ECM). And I think it's safe to say most people don't like that sort of match. Hiding behind hills/buildings/rocks is boring, and advancing into LRM fire is suicide.

[IIIuminaughty]

lol what LRMs?
game is fielded by so many ecm now its crazy, how can you even get an lock

[xXBagheeraXx]

IIIuminaughty, on 27 July 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

lol what LRMs?
game is fielded by so many ecm now its crazy, how can you even get an lock

Exactly. Why my favorite ride is my Warhawk prime with Quad PPCS and a fairly sizable targeting computer.

I can hurt you at long range, I can hurt you at short range, it moves at 70KPH for nascar and I can shut down any ECM mechs I hit.

[Deathlike]

Jman5, on 27 July 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

It's always interesting how polarizing LRMs are in this community. How come we never have heated discussions about Small lasers?

The only time Small Lasers are referenced with "Firestarters" and "quirks" and nothing else.

The disparity between "bad" to "barely average" players in MWO becomes obvious by how one states their case about LRMs.

[Hit the Deck]

AEgg, on 27 July 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

I don't think the problem with LRMs is strictly that they're too strong by themselves. It's that their presence turns games into stalemates. If the other team has one or two LRM boats, you can't ever be exposed, anywhere, or you'll have them all firing on you at once. LRMs are instant, effortless focus fire unlike any other weapon in the game.

One LRM boat effectively makes every ally within ~800m too much of a threat to engage alone. Sure, the LRMs won't do a whole lot at longer ranges, but you have to run away from them instantly anyway, giving whoever you are actually trying to fight a big advantage.

Everyone says LRMs are no threat because you can avoid them, but you have to avoid them, that's the whole point.

Yes, you can counter LRMs with a lot of things, but their presence will still dictate the terms of the match (unless your entire team has ECM). And I think it's safe to say most people don't like that sort of match. Hiding behind hills/buildings/rocks is boring, and advancing into LRM fire is suicide.

Yes, and that's not a problem but one of the main points of our current LRMs just like you said, i.e. to keep the enemies' heads down and deny them from advancing (while also doing damage of course). Also to support your teammates anywhere almost instantly.

[Pariah Devalis]

All games need a newb-tube. A simple, easy to use weapon system. It makes the game more accessible for those who either can't, due to disability (physical or otherwise), or won't put in the effort to utilize more skill intensive weapon choices. In theory, how LRMs and SSRMs work right now fit that bill. Self guided weapon systems that utilize exactly zero fine motor control to operate.

In and of itself that isn't a bad thing. However, they should be only as effective a weapon system as their lack of required operational intensity and complete lack of necessary front line risk dictates. Not so little that they're worthless, like they are now, but not so much that you dare not step out of the shadow of a rock lest ye be smote by the many headed fire gods (IE: Lurmageddon I, II, and III). Their current position is on the weak end, and, perhaps, too weak an end.

Having said that, LRM can be easily neutered on most maps, Caustic and Alpine being exceptions. Stick near tall cover. Stay near friendly ECM platforms. Never expose yourself unnecessarily. If possible, get under their 180 meter damage umbrella (or closer if they are Clan LRMs). You can out trade an LRM boat that stands out in the open easily if you pop out of cover, shoot any laser, gauss, ppc, or autocannon, and then jump back into cover. Those LRMs might never even hit you, assuming the LRM mech could even get a lock on you due to ECM proliferation.

Oh, and try not to rambo. A solo target is just asking to have the sky fall on them.


---


All that aside, my personal opinion on how LRMs function in MWO is best described as seething hatred. It isn't even the LRM mechanics so much as the players. Most LRM pilots out there (not the good ones, but most of them) are cowardly. They hide in the back, protected, and take on none of the risk that their allies are putting in. They selfishly grab radar locks from their more threatened allies and dump self guided munitions down range. They also take no share of the team's total maximum damage saturation - or the maximum damage the team can share among its members before mechs start dropping like flies. In essence, they leech locks, they weaken the durability of the team overall, and they are cowardly skulking in the back.

On the other hand, the good LRM players bring a few direct fire weapons and are comfortable using the 250-600 range bracket to engage enemies. They get their own damned locks. They take their share of the damage on the team. Them? I have no problem with those people. It is the first bunch that boils my blood.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 27 July 2015 - 06:10 PM.

[Wintersdark]

AEgg, on 27 July 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

I don't think the problem with LRMs is strictly that they're too strong by themselves. It's that their presence turns games into stalemates. If the other team has one or two LRM boats, you can't ever be exposed, anywhere, or you'll have them all firing on you at once. LRMs are instant, effortless focus fire unlike any other weapon in the game.

One LRM boat effectively makes every ally within ~800m too much of a threat to engage alone. Sure, the LRMs won't do a whole lot at longer ranges, but you have to run away from them instantly anyway, giving whoever you are actually trying to fight a big advantage.

Everyone says LRMs are no threat because you can avoid them, but you have to avoid them, that's the whole point.

Yes, you can counter LRMs with a lot of things, but their presence will still dictate the terms of the match (unless your entire team has ECM). And I think it's safe to say most people don't like that sort of match. Hiding behind hills/buildings/rocks is boring, and advancing into LRM fire is suicide.

This is so short sighted and ultimately wrong.

You don't have to avoid them, their presence doesn't force you to do anything. An LRM mech won't keep a decent player in cover at all, for the reasons I stated earlier: lock and travel times. Peek, shoot, scoot. It's impossible for the LRM mech to do damage at 800m in a short time frame.

The LRM mech, not having line of sight, doesn't even know if he can hit before he fires.

A dual gauss mech keeps people in cover WAY better than an LRM mech could ever hope to. Taking 30 ppfld while you're still moving out of cover is way more threatening than someone getting a lock on you roughly 2 seconds after you've moved out of cover, then there being another roughly 6 seconds of flight time. 8 seconds is an eternity.

A laser vomit mech would have done around 100 pinpoint damage in that time.

You don't only need cover vs LRM's. You need cover vs everything,except in the middle of an aggressive push.

The closest thing LRM mechs do to control a match is encourage the enemy team to work together closer and not rambo. And you want players on the enemy team to run off and Rambo! Everything else is done more effectively by direct fire weapons.

Advancing into LRM fire isn't nearly as dangerous as advancing into pretty much any direct fire, and at least with LRM's if you push in suddenly they can't hurt you anymore.

[Novakaine]

[Drasari]

OP you are dead wrong. With all the ECM and hard cover, plus modules to counter LRM's I am not sure what problem you are having. To die by LRM's is the just fail at the game. Sorry.

[Hit the Deck]

Wintersdark, on 27 July 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

This is so short sighted and ultimately wrong.

-post-

No, because with direct fire weapons you have to expose yourself to the enemies and thus risking yourself and you can miss your shot. Moreover, being hit by LRMs shakes your entire cockpit and blind you so you can't effectively shoot back. Not to mention that with direct fire weapons you can't physically shoot the enemies while with LRMs you can and that's why LRMs are useful. At 800m Gauss is obviously better than LRM at hitting the enemies if you can see them.

Also why people often bring dual GAwssss into discussion?! It's 24 tons for the Clans and 30 for the IS, just for the weapons alone! And like every 'Mech can mount them.


EDIT: Also, you are talking about advancing into LRM Mechs and make their weapons useless in short range. Obviously he/she is in the middle of the enemy force. I guess that wouldn't work well.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 28 July 2015 - 12:00 AM.

[MechWarrior849305]

Hit the Deck, on 27 July 2015 - 11:50 PM, said:

No, because with direct fire weapons you have to expose yourself to the enemies and thus risking yourself and you can miss your shot. Moreover, being hit by LRMs shakes your entire cockpit and blind you so you can't effectively shoot back. Not to mention that with direct fire weapons you can't physically shoot the enemies while with LRMs you can and that's why LRMs are useful. At 800m Gauss is obviously better than LRM at hitting the enemies if you can see them.

Also why people often bring dual GAwssss into discussion?! It's 24 tons for the Clans and 30 for the IS, just for the weapons alone! And like every 'Mech can mount them.

I can bring 5C-SPLs plus 2-3 heatsinks (that worth of 8 tons of weapons) in my ACH. Will you challenge me in your LRM stalker that way?
I can expose myself all day long on this occasion

Edited by DuoAngel, 27 July 2015 - 11:57 PM.