87 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Actually, they had the 15% Structure damage Before the 20% damage nerf. Pretty sure that had 9x crit damage before the 67% crit chance was nerfed as well.

They took that 25% DPS nerf...because they "Fixed Hitreg".

Ok then they got a hitreg buff.

I personally dont think clan MGs are that bad. I get kills with them all the time. So it sounds like a personal problem.

The IS MGs are absolutely terrible though.

Quote

on top of that, the 2x LPL build is only adequate at best, and far better served with 3 more DHS, than the 6MG and sub optimal ammo load 1.5 tons of ammo gives.

I disagree. Shadowcats die so fast anyway that having the extra firepower is preferable IMO.

The problem is Shadowcats are too slow. So their survivability sucks

Why are they too slow? Because the way MASC works in MWO is dumb. MASC gives smaller speed bonuses to lighter mechs. So the shadowcat basically gets zero benefit from MASC.

One possible solution is to give the Shadowcat a MASC quirk that doubles the bonus it gets from MASC. That would at least give the Shadowcat some decent burst speed.

Edited by Khobai, 28 July 2015 - 12:19 PM.

[Greenjulius]

Mcgral18, on 28 July 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

Actually, they had the 15% Structure damage Before the 20% damage nerf. Pretty sure that had 9x crit damage before the 67% crit chance was nerfed as well.



They took that 25% DPS nerf...because they "Fixed Hitreg".

Why people think MGs are anywhere close to acceptable still baffles me. They are barely worth the tonnage, and require continual facetime. You're actually better off mounting more DHS instead of MGs on the SCat.

Khobai, on 28 July 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

Ok then they got a hitreg buff.

I personally dont think clan MGs are that bad. I get kills with them all the time. So it sounds like a personal problem.

The IS MGs are absolutely terrible though.

Ugh... IS MGs and Clan MGs are exactly the same, except Clan MGs are half the weight.

Proof

Edited by Greenjulius, 28 July 2015 - 12:18 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 28 July 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

Ok then they got a hitreg buff.

I personally dont think clan MGs are that bad. I get kills with them all the time. So it sounds like a personal problem.

The IS MGs are absolutely terrible though.

They have the same stats...

[Greenjulius]

Mcgral18, on 28 July 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

They have the same stats...

But they make different noises!!!!

[GeistHrafn]

I love playing the SCat on the Bog. No high point is safe when I'm there, I'm a ERPeep menace.

I'll see a group of guys going for a flank on our team and light em up, they get so busy trying to hit me, they miss the rest of our team swarming them until it's too late lol.

I don't post regularly high damage in it, but it's the most fun i've had in a mech for some time now.

[Revis Volek]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 July 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

on top of that, the 2x LPL build is only adequate at best, and far better served with 3 more DHS, than the 6MG and sub optimal ammo load 1.5 tons of ammo gives.

2 tons of MG ammo a TC1 and 2 LPL's

The ONLY reason they are useful is because i see little difference with the additional heatsinks....still very hot and the MG's at least can keep your DPS going as you scuttle away to cool off and even get a chance to take a arm or leg on the way out.

I do not fire them until im overheating and im still not 100% sold after being elited the DHS wont be much, much better.

Edited by DarthRevis, 28 July 2015 - 12:34 PM.

[Throat Punch]

Deathpactt, on 28 July 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

I realy hate shadow cat, you just cant build anything decent with it, horrible hard points but I love my cheetah

I use a SHC-Prime with a A/C 10 and 2x cML w/ ECM build and a SHC-B with a 3x SR6+Artemis and 2x cSMP w/ECM. Both builds are pretty nice and I can get in the 650-700 damage range with them.

[Bishop Steiner]

DarthRevis, on 28 July 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

2 tons of MG ammo a TC1 and 2 LPL's

The ONLY reason they are useful is because i see little difference with the additional heatsinks....still very hot and the MG's at least can keep your DPS going as you scuttle away to cool off and even get a chance to take a arm or leg on the way out.

I do not fire them until im overheating and im still not 100% sold after being elited the DHS wont be much, much better.

still really mediocre, when you consider heat/facetime/damage. Dual LPL is simply not a GOOD build.

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 28 July 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

Unless they ever fix that 20% nerf to the MGs...that P variant won't be helping you much.

Primary utility of the P variant is that it lets you have three energy hardpoints and a ballistic. Otherwise, you're limited to only two energy if you want to try and bring a big gun.

[Greenjulius]

DarthRevis, on 28 July 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

2 tons of MG ammo a TC1 and 2 LPL's

The ONLY reason they are useful is because i see little difference with the additional heatsinks....still very hot and the MG's at least can keep your DPS going as you scuttle away to cool off and even get a chance to take a arm or leg on the way out.

I do not fire them until im overheating and im still not 100% sold after being elited the DHS wont be much, much better.

Numbers on this: (keep in mind this is with Elite skills, and no quirks figured in)

No heatsinks, MGs instead:
2.3 heat/second cooling
60 Heat Threshold

3xDHS+TC1, No MGs

2.78 heat/second cooling
65.04 Heat Threshold


The Difference?

17% faster cooling
8% higher heat cap

This translates to 4 shots from 2xLPL for no additional DHS, with the 5th shot overheating. With the 3xDHS, you'll get a 5th shot. If you put in a 4th DHS, you almost get a 6th shot. (it hits 100% exactly, so if you override, no damage)

Personally, I prefer to run 4xDHS and ECM, and no TC1. This mech is too light to really benefit from it over another DHS to cool it down. Just strip the left arm down, and shave some off the head.

Edited by Greenjulius, 28 July 2015 - 12:50 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 July 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

Primary utility of the P variant is that it lets you have three energy hardpoints and a ballistic. Otherwise, you're limited to only two energy if you want to try and bring a big gun.

yet almost nobody uses it that way. In part because by the time you add any decent size ballistic, you really don't have the tonnage or the heatcap for even 3 ERMLs. 2x ERML is barely viable with a UAC10. Any smaller ballistic is simply not worth bringing solo on a MediuM Chassis.

[Tuefel Hunden]

I have been enjoying the Shadowcat. Course, I enjoyed the Cicada 3M as well. Guess I am just strange. LOL!!!

[Greenjulius]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 July 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

yet almost nobody uses it that way. In part because by the time you add any decent size ballistic, you really don't have the tonnage or the heatcap for even 3 ERMLs. 2x ERML is barely viable with a UAC10. Any smaller ballistic is simply not worth bringing solo on a MediuM Chassis.

The tonnage is there to support 3 tons of ammo (600 damage) for the UAC10 and 3xERML. You're right about the heat cap though... Those 3xERML will heat it up, and it will take forever to cool back down. It might work after Elited / Double Basics however.

The real question is whether the 3rd ERML is worth losing ECM on this fragile mech. UAC10/ERML forces you into medium range fighting, so expect to receive return fire and get hurt a lot.

Edited by Greenjulius, 28 July 2015 - 12:55 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Greenjulius, on 28 July 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

Numbers on this:

No heatsinks, MGs instead:
2.3 heat/second cooling
60 Heat Threshold

3xDHS+TC1, No MGs

2.78 heat/second cooling
65.04 Heat Threshold


The Difference?

17% faster cooling
8% higher heat cap

This translates to 4 shots from 2xLPL for no additional DHS, with the 5th shot overheating. With the 3xDHS, you'll get a 5th shot. If you put in a 4th DHS, you almost get a 6th shot. (it hits 100% exactly, so if you override, no damage)

Personally, I prefer to run 4xDHS and ECM. Just strip the left arm down, and shave some off the head.

Honestly, I'd probably rather just run and Iceferret with 1 LPL and 2-3 ERMLs. or an ERPPC and 4x ERSL.

[N a p e s]

Greenjulius, on 28 July 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

The tonnage is there to support 3 tons of ammo (600 damage) for the UAC10 and 3xERML. You're right about the heat cap though... Those 3xERML will heat it up, and it will take forever to cool back down. It might work after Elited / Double Basics however.

I'm running 3xERmlas, 1xUAC10 with 2.5 tons of ammo and one extra DHS. Its pretty reasonable in terms of heat management.

[Bishop Steiner]

Greenjulius, on 28 July 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

The tonnage is there to support 3 tons of ammo (600 damage) for the UAC10 and 3xERML. You're right about the heat cap though... Those 3xERML will heat it up, and it will take forever to cool back down. It might work after Elited / Double Basics however.

The real question is whether the 3rd ERML is worth losing ECM on this fragile mech. UAC10/ERML forces you into medium range fighting, so expect to receive return fire and get hurt a lot.

that's the point, the ECM, in my opinion is a must take on a mech like this, so that's why I don't count it as having the tonnage. And even 2x ERML and the UAC10 heart up real fast under heavy use.

[Bishop Steiner]

PowerOfNapes, on 28 July 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

I'm running 3xERmlas, 1xUAC10 with 2.5 tons of ammo and one extra DHS. Its pretty reasonable in terms of heat management.

stipping off a half ton of armor somewhere?

Eh, I consider 3 tons minimum ammo for a class 10. And I'd trade that DHS for an ECM in a heartbeat. To each their own though! (I tend to like cooler builds)

[Greenjulius]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 July 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

stipping off a half ton of armor somewhere?

Eh, I consider 3 tons minimum ammo for a class 10. And I'd trade that DHS for an ECM in a heartbeat. To each their own though! (I tend to like cooler builds)

2.5 tons (500 damage) of UAC10 is acceptable now that ammo was raised by 33%. (equivalent to 3.325 tons before the buff) I used to run my Kitfoxes with 3 tons of UAC5 ammo and 3xERML and did pretty well, so slightly superior damage with the 10 should be okay.

It's really sad however that the only improvement on the SCat is that it carries a UAC10 instead of a UAC5. It unfortunately loses the ECM which the Kitfox keeps. Personally, I'd rather run the Kitfox in this scenario. I'm finding it hard to justify the extra 15 tons of the Shadowcat over 'ol KFX.

It brings the most mediocre MASC of the entire lineup, (lowest tonnage to boost ratio) too many jump jets, and fewer hardpoints than most lights. So anyone who is doing well in the Shadowcat, try out the Kitfox and laugh. It's a very similar experience.

Edited by Greenjulius, 28 July 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 July 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

still really mediocre, when you consider heat/facetime/damage. Dual LPL is simply not a GOOD build.

Its much, much better then 2 erppc or even one.

But the best thing i have come up with the 3 MPL's and 2 SRM6's with Art and the Missile Spread Quirk from the SHC-B. I also like 2 Sm Pulse/2 Er Med and 3 S-SRM6's on the Prime

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 July 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

yet almost nobody uses it that way. In part because by the time you add any decent size ballistic, you really don't have the tonnage or the heatcap for even 3 ERMLs. 2x ERML is barely viable with a UAC10. Any smaller ballistic is simply not worth bringing solo on a MediuM Chassis.

Maybe, but all of the best SCat players I've seen so far have been using it exactly that way. Last one I saw was a UAC/20 with 2x ERML. Some damn impressive shooting.

Also, I disagree on the heat. It's not even close to toasty. With one extra DHS, you get a cap of 61.7 after Elite. For a laser alpha that only generates 17.55 points (you are bringing the A arms, right?), that's more than sufficient.

Bishop Steiner, on 28 July 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

stipping off a half ton of armor somewhere?

Eh, I consider 3 tons minimum ammo for a class 10. And I'd trade that DHS for an ECM in a heartbeat. To each their own though! (I tend to like cooler builds)

4 from each leg, 4 from head, 2 from each arm gets you a half ton with Endo and Ferro. Standard procedure to squeeze every last ton out of 45 tonners.