221 replies to this topic

[Bulletsponge0]

Shad0wsFury, on 28 July 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Are you going to defeat 10 mechs with 246 streak SRM missiles and two working launchers, with heavy damage to your armor and internals?

If not then you should go die honorably (and quickly), or run yourself out of bounds if you must.

Sitting around and hiding on a map does nothing but waste everybody's time. Personally, I like to level mechs one at a time, so I'll often wait till the matches are over so I can continue leveling that chassis.

So yea, better keep hoping PGI takes out that (dead) all-chat, or people like me will keep reporting the positions of people like you.

(ps. it wasn't me in that screenshot, but I do it all the time unless the person has a legitimate chance of winning the match)

people need to realize that when they drop..its a 15 minute commitment, anything less than that is just a bonus..

to give away the position of a player is the height of selfishness...and a violation of the TOS

[GeistHrafn]

Both Non-Participation and Team Treason (reporting position) are reportable offenses. What bad arcade kitty describes himself doing is NOT non-participation, and is not considered an offense. However, in his example, the person(s) that reported his position ARE performing Team Treason, and should be reported.

Please refrain from giving your opinion, personal take, 2 cents, or "gray areas". The rules are posted below for your convenience.

Non-Participation Abuse

If a player has joined a match, they must have launched the game with intent to play. Players who are not moving, or are otherwise not participating in the spirit of the game, fall under this category. While we all understand the call of nature: Repeated abuse of this behaviour, similarly to 'Mech Suicide and Team Killing, results in an unfair advantage for the enemy teams, and is thus not considered acceptable use. Please keep in mind that idling on your cap point without armour or moving does not constitute a form of tactical "Base Defense".

Team Treason

Treasonous provision of information to enemy combatants, also known as "bird-dogging" is forbidden. This involves a player using the in-game chat to provide the enemy team with the locations of their own team mates. While we appreciate that some players may wish to have a round end early by calling out the location of an AFK team-mate, the risk that this could be used against an active participant of the match to deny them the use of cover and movement makes this a form of a griefing. You may declare a teammate AFK but not their coordinates or position.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Every now and then this subject pops up and I have to remind or educate those who think it is okay to call out locations - Official response is here.

Which you will find states: "So if you run and hide without ever engaging, that is non-participation. If you fight to the best of your abilities and hide when there is no way for you to win anymore, that is perfectly fine."

So, let someone decide how they want to engage. If someone needs to circle wide and wait for 4 or 5 mechs to split up so he has a chance against one of them so be it. There is a 15 minute timer and when the match ends the team with the most mechs alive wins. Leave game and drop a different mech.

It doesn't even matter if someone is straight hiding after the initial engagements. Deal with it treasonous scum.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 28 July 2015 - 01:01 PM.

[Fate 6]

Novakaine, on 28 July 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

Wrong make em work for it.
Nothing personal.
If I'm the surviving mech and my team gets stomped I won't make it easy for them at all.
If people are that impatient then just go get in another mech.
Ya got more than one i'd assume.
Novakaine goes hard.

^
One time on Viridian I successfully hid for 10 minutes. I had no weapons in a 1 legged Kit Fox. Best part was that the enemy actually saw me at one point and I got away using epic hiding and seek pro tactics.

[Pjwned]

They might consider turning all chat off when people stop needlessly prolonging the match in an entirely hopeless endeavor.

Edited by Pjwned, 28 July 2015 - 01:06 PM.

[Mystere]

Shad0wsFury, on 28 July 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Are you going to defeat 10 mechs with 246 streak SRM missiles and two working launchers, with heavy damage to your armor and internals?

If not then you should go die honorably (and quickly), or run yourself out of bounds if you must.

Sitting around and hiding on a map does nothing but waste everybody's time. Personally, I like to level mechs one at a time, so I'll often wait till the matches are over so I can continue leveling that chassis.

So yea, better keep hoping PGI takes out that (dead) all-chat, or people like me will keep reporting the positions of people like you.

(ps. it wasn't me in that screenshot, but I do it all the time unless the person has a legitimate chance of winning the match)

If the OP wants to try to take even at least 1 of the enemy before dying, the prerogative is his, not anyone else's. How to do so is also his and no one else's.

And just because he cannot win does not mean you can rat on him, ever.

And if you're impatient to wait, go level another chassis.

Some people ... <smh>

[Mystere]

Lexx, on 28 July 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

I once sent in a ticket asking for an official stance from PGI about the last player in a Skirmish match running away and avoiding combat. They wouldn't give me a clear answer and just said report them and they would look at it on a case by case basis.

Of course they wouldn't give you a clear answer. They can't.

[bad arcade kitty]

Lexx, on 28 July 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

Just report them and send the screenshot to support.

reporting seems to do very little to the root of this problem

even on conquest you (at least me) often have to persuade your team not to disclose you when you have a chance to win by cap, because some jerks don't want to dc and don't want to wait either and they don't give a sh*t about other players

it got way too common, pgi have to eradicate it completely and it's very easy to do with turning off the all chat for dead players

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 28 July 2015 - 01:12 PM.

[Mystere]

Prosperity Park, on 28 July 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

Basic rules of engagement:

If you run away to prolong a fight that you cannot win (your team is down and you have no weapons, for instance), then you are violating the game's Terms of Use and should be reported to Support. Also, your position should be given away, because you are not attempting to win or draw; you are just trying to lose slowly instead of losing quickly. You are still trying to lose. (Note - trying to reposition is different from running away, but if you take all day to "reposition" when you can't win, then you are effectively evading combat)

If you run away and avoid combat to force a draw, that's allowed because you're trying to "not lose."

If you run away from combat entirely to secure a victory (if your team has 2 unarmed Scouts and the enemy has a full-health Atlas in a Assault Match), then it's okay because you are trying to win.

If you reveal someone's position for trying to win or draw by running away, then YOU should be reported tonSupport for violating the game's Terms of Use.

Weren't you a former moderator? If so, I am extremely disappointed in you. You should know better.

martian, on 28 July 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

And this is what the official rules of MWO actually say:


People relaying the position of their own teammate to the enemy team are commiting the team treason. The rules are very unambiguous in this.

I really think PGI should make an example of several dozen players with a several months-long ban. These people are almost just as bad as cheaters.

[Mystere]

CtrlAltWheee, on 28 July 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

Yea I don't think we're far apart here. There's a gray area.

There is no grey area for team treason.

[bad arcade kitty]

I was hoping to kill possibly one or may be on a mad fluke even two of their damaged mechs when they scatter to find me, some of them were pretty damaged, see i don't hide with powered down engine

yeah or if i cannot do i was hoping to survive

i shouldn't care if somebody don't want to dc because they don't want to play another mech (don't tell me they don't have it, everybody who plays more than 2-3 weeks have more than 1 mech, anyway they can play trial too), it's not their right to decide what i should do and how i should play

anyway it's out of question, team treason is a rule violation, and it can be eradicated with turning the all chat off, so, i am asking, why pgi doesn't turn the all chat off already

Mystere, on 28 July 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

There is no grey area for team treason.

this

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 28 July 2015 - 01:25 PM.
Quote cleanup

[Mystere]

Rhazien, on 28 July 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

Non-Participation Abuse

If a player has joined a match, they must have launched the game with intent to play. Players who are not moving, or are otherwise not participating in the spirit of the game, fall under this category. While we all understand the call of nature: Repeated abuse of this behaviour, similarly to 'Mech Suicide and Team Killing, results in an unfair advantage for the enemy teams, and is thus not considered acceptable use. Please keep in mind that idling on your cap point without armour or moving does not constitute a form of tactical "Base Defense".

Rhazien,

The mods and support should really get their act together, especially because of this gem, as repeated by GRiPSViGiL:

GRiPSViGiL, on 28 July 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

Every now and then this subject pops up and I have to remind or educate those who think it is okay to call out locations - Official response is here.

Which you will find states: "So if you run and hide without ever engaging, that is non-participation. If you fight to the best of your abilities and hide when there is no way for you to win anymore, that is perfectly fine."

It's been a year and a half since that post, and that same statement was expressed even earlier than that by the same and other mods.

And please, punish those treasonous ******** already, preferably with a several months-long ban, if not a permanent one.

Edited by Mystere, 28 July 2015 - 01:30 PM.

[GeistHrafn]

If you think a player is breaking the rules, report it to moderation@mwomercs.com. Support will sort it out.

The post being referred to is from 2013, and is considered out of date. See: http://mwomercs.com/...arrior-justice/

It will link back to the updated CoC rules.

Again, if you feel someone is running out the clock, just hiding, please report them to support, not to the other team.

I will attempt to get clarification as well.

Edited by Rhazien, 28 July 2015 - 01:34 PM.

[DAYLEET]

I think everyone should try to avoid combat as much as possible. Maybe then pgi will add a map ping to the last player wasting everyons time.

[CtrlAltWheee]

Mystere, on 28 July 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

There is no grey area for team treason.

Reading the further posts. The more I read the more I agree with you.

I was thinking when I wrote that about people on terra therma who just run *seemingly* with no intention of attacking. Running simply to hide on an enormous map, power down, and waste the remaining time on the clock. Not to win. Not to try. Just as a sort of F you to the other team. I've never outed a person for doing this, but I share players' distaste with it.

In any case, you're right.

[ScarecrowES]

Ultimately, the language for non-participation in clear, and treason is vague.

The the non-participation rule states clearly that any refusal to participate in a match within the spirit of the game is a violation. Straight up, thats the rule. Team treason give the implication that treason is considered when the act against one's team has negative impact on team or player performance. Thus, it cannot be considered treason the act has a result that was going to happen anyway. The OP was going to lose the match. There was no possibility he could win it. If he faced the enemy directly, he WOULD die. Both results are guaranteed. No treason can thus occur.

[Knight Magus]

Love the people that say you should go die honorable because their dead. Maybe, next time we should tell you feeders how to play as well?

[Felicitatem Parco]

Mystere, on 28 July 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

Weren't you a former moderator? If so, I am extremely disappointed in you. You should know better.

Yeah, I am a former moderator. The freeways all throughout the Portland Metro Area are rated at 55mph. Do you know how many people drive 55 on the interstate? None, we drive at proper freeway speeds.

If a player is deliberately running the clock by powering down in an assault match when their team is down by several points, and they have no intention to fight, then they have forfeited their right to a secure position grid as far as I am concerned. They have forfeited their rights to a fair fight, they forfeited their rights to team protection.

They have stopped playing the game.

At that time they have forfeited the match already, and you can feel free to report my in-game actions if you ever see this happen in-game.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 28 July 2015 - 01:57 PM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Perhaps Prosperity Parks position on such subjects is why "former" precedes the title moderator.

[Mystere]

Rhazien, on 28 July 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

The post being referred to is from 2013, and is considered out of date. See: http://mwomercs.com/...arrior-justice/

What I was referring to was the statement by (former moderator) Egomane:

"If you fight to the best of your abilities and hide when there is no way for you to win anymore, that is perfectly fine."

As far as I know, no other clarification has been provided since then other than that. But, I do know that someone from PGI did say several weeks(?) ago that further clarification will be provided. Unfortunately I can't remember the name and I also can't find the post.