212 replies to this topic

[Sky Legacy]

TTK is absolutely fine. Exactly where it should be. If you're getting killed too fast, learn to play.

[TheCharlatan]

Problems with increased armor/structure:
1- higher effect on heavier classes, almost negligible effect on lighter classes.
2- weapons lose "umph"ness. If AC20 is not scary, we are losing something.
3- heat management and balance problems. Weapons like PPCs become useless: to much heat for too little damage. Lazors will also have problems, as well as any weapon with ammo.

There are solutions to these problems, but would require a lot of tuning.

I'd still prefer a reworking of the heat scale (less capacity, more dissipation).

[Weeny Machine]

TheCharlatan, on 04 August 2015 - 04:26 AM, said:

Problems with increased armor/structure:
1- higher effect on heavier classes, almost negligible effect on lighter classes.
2- weapons lose "umph"ness. If AC20 is not scary, we are losing something.
3- heat management and balance problems. Weapons like PPCs become useless: to much heat for too little damage. Lazors will also have problems, as well as any weapon with ammo.

There are solutions to these problems, but would require a lot of tuning.

I'd still prefer a reworking of the heat scale (less capacity, more dissipation).

First the huge alphas need to be curbed. And the proposal you mentioned to tweak the heat scale is maybe the best and easiest approach.

Sky Legacy, on 04 August 2015 - 04:19 AM, said:

TTK is absolutely fine. Exactly where it should be. If you're getting killed too fast, learn to play.

If you cannot destroy your targets ridiculously easily, then the problem lies with you not with the others being killed too fast. Learn to aim and see why people are complaining about TTK. Or let me translate it in your language "get gud yourself, n00b"

Edited by Bush Hopper, 04 August 2015 - 04:38 AM.

[Kh0rn]

Well it could be many things. The lack of cone of fire , the very fast reloads, the bad heat scale,

I know Mwll ditched the TT armor values and went with made up ones but I know people want too keep it TT armor. So maybe reduce the rate of fire , add convergence, change heat system, add head bob, slow down mech agility I don't know just throwing ideas around. I know in close beta TTK was pretty high but that was due too single heat sinks mostly reduced fire time a lot.

[Lugh]

Kh0rn, on 04 August 2015 - 04:35 AM, said:

Well it could be many things. The lack of cone of fire , the very fast reloads, the bad heat scale,

I know Mwll ditched the TT armor values and went with made up ones but I know people want too keep it TT armor. So maybe reduce the rate of fire , add convergence, change heat system, add head bob, slow down mech agility I don't know just throwing ideas around. I know in close beta TTK was pretty high but that was due too single heat sinks mostly reduced fire time a lot.

Nope. That's why Gauss was king in CB with other ballistics a close second. That plus having 4 fewer shooters on the other side made TTK longer.

[JernauM]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 August 2015 - 02:50 AM, said:

Sometimes its not a tactical error so much as a judgement call. Do I put up with a light in my rear while I try to kill the Dire Wolf in front of me. Even if I die to the back stabbing, that Dire is in bad shape when I drop.

One might reasonably argue that getting sandwiched between two dangerous enemy mechs could be the result of a tactical error

Joking aside, your point is correct. Sometimes things just go the wrong way and your team is caught in a bad position. The best-laid plans of mice and men and all that.

[General Solo]

If people want TT grab a tabletop
.
Or we could allow people to only fire each weapon and jump once every 10 seconds cause that's like TT and would be fun , maybe, ok probably not..

Easy to balance cool down for all weapons would be 10 seconds.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 04 August 2015 - 04:49 AM.

[LORD ORION]

Jazzbandit1313, on 03 August 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

Makes sense to me.

or put something like a 1.5x multiplier on structure across the board.

OR

TTK is only low when
1) You are getting focused fired
2) You are standing still
3) You don't torso twist

Increasing TTK only increases the advantage of teamwork.
1) Focus fire will be even more important to punch through armor and get crits.
2) Aiming on spcific areas using the builds / chasis that converge the best will be even more important.
3) Torso twisting properly will mitiagte even more damamge.

What you want makes the problem FAR worse in this game.
What you really want is less armor, so joe pug Rambo who pops out and gets focused while spraying damage all over an enemy mech actually opens up armor and/or blows apart components on an enemy before getting his face melted off.

Edited by LORD ORION, 04 August 2015 - 04:50 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Sky Legacy, on 04 August 2015 - 04:19 AM, said:

TTK is absolutely fine. Exactly where it should be. If you're getting killed too fast, learn to play.

...says the player sporting clan tags probably in a mech with all the crutches.

Try it from the cockpit of a Locust, Trebuchet, Catapult or Awesome or some old outdated IS mech that pops like a bubble in a pin factory

[Joseph Mallan]

Kjudoon, on 04 August 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

...says the player sporting clan tags probably in a mech with all the crutches.

Try it from the cockpit of a Locust, Trebuchet, Catapult or Awesome or some old outdated IS mech that pops like a bubble in a pin factory

What logo am I sporting???

[Lugh]

Kjudoon, on 04 August 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

...says the player sporting clan tags probably in a mech with all the crutches.

Try it from the cockpit of a Locust, Trebuchet, Catapult or Awesome or some old outdated IS mech that pops like a bubble in a pin factory

All mechs pop like bubbles in a pin factory when they are poorly positioned, Thus has it ever been, Thus it always shall be.

If I can put up 200 and 300 damage games in a stock thunderbolt with no modifications (Trials) then you should be able to as well.

However, most can't be bothered to learn, let alone learn QUICKLY, what they can and cannot do it a chassis.

Joseph Mallan, on 04 August 2015 - 05:21 AM, said:

What logo am I sporting???

That clenched Fist is RACIST man so clearly you are CLAN.

[Traumkampfer]

I remember it was suggested on the forums to add some feature from the tabletop games that let players add more armor at the cost of said armor being extremely heavy. (I think it was Hardened armor?) Where each point of armor counted as 2, but you only got 8 points of armor per ton.

I think that would be a neat idea for someone who just wants to make an extremely tanky mech at the cost of weight, firepower, and possibly some speed.

[Kjudoon]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 August 2015 - 05:21 AM, said:

What logo am I sporting???

Not you Joseph. The guy in the ghost bear tags giving the "L2Pnoob" position.

Quote

All mechs pop like bubbles in a pin factory when they are poorly positioned, Thus has it ever been, Thus it always shall be.

Yes Lugh, the General Custer syndrome not withstanding or the "Death of Jimmy Malone" scene from The Untouchables... which is what it has become. No. That is not what I'm addressing. If you're getting 2-4 kills and not breaking 500 damage (like I've seen more than a couple Gauss Whales do) It's a problem. That's not focus firing, that's crappy COD sniper garbage in a game that shouldn't have that ability. That's the game mechanic (perfect convergence) failing the players who want to enjoy a match and not get greased in the first seconds of contact with the enemy when they were perfectly healthy.

I see this same problem in MMOs where that puny little Lvl10 character accidentally runs into the lvl100 monster. One shot dead. Problem is in this game, builds are creating this same issue for any "level character" who makes one split second mistake. So your options are limited in fixing it. You can't "Pen" these monsters in without destroying player base. So you have to nerf the monsters to balance. PGI is not seemingly willing to do that yet.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lugh, on 04 August 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

That clenched Fist is RACIST man so clearly you are CLAN.

Not a child of the 60s I see!

[Lugh]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 August 2015 - 06:35 AM, said:

Not a child of the 60s I see!

Its facetious fun poking at the fact that both sides in the RW debate can be Racist.

Edited by Lugh, 04 August 2015 - 07:11 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

it does have terrain and movement to hit modifiers already

nope it doesnt.

there are no forests you get huge bonuses from being in.

and like I said jumping usually makes you easier to hit than making you harder to hit.

Theres also no modifiers for range. Its equally easy to hit something at long range than it is at short range with laser vomit.

Its much easier to hit mechs in MWO than tabletop.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lugh, on 04 August 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

Its facetious fun poking at the fact that both sides in the RW debate can be Racist.

And a response poking fun that I was 2 years old when that raised fist of defiance happened!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 August 2015 - 08:02 AM.

[Lightfoot]

They are doing a rebalance soon and with all the complaints about TTK, which is very low compared to other MechWarrior games, I think they will be fixing that. Of course if you are in a Light mech with few weapons the TTK on targets is too long already probably so that is a factor.

[Tombstoner]

Widowmaker1981, on 04 August 2015 - 03:56 AM, said:

Tabletop has to hit rolls which simulate pilot skill. Which we do not need to simulate, because we are the pilots and aim ourselves. You could argue that it should be harder to hit, sure... (movement/heat based reticle sway/bloom) but it does have terrain and movement to hit modifiers already, it is considerably harder to hit a fast light than a fat assault, and it is considerably harder to hit a mech that is only poking 1/5 of its area out from behind a hill than it is to hit one completely in the open.

The main reason mechs die faster is that we are not all mentally challenged people who cannot hit a 100 ton behemoth from 100 paces more than 50% of the time, and thats what TT pilots are.

Except that just about the entire game was designed around a 2d6 RNG. you tend to run into some hard core issues when you port such a system into a FPS. Zero work was done to correct any translations problems. This is representative of PGI's development philosophy.... minimally viable product.

This game was #()%&(%& from day one. Incredible amounts of voluminous feed back was provided for months. regarding TTK. What we got was ghost heat and quirks.... This is so sad. The game has such potential and a steam releases is just a money grab.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tombstoner, on 04 August 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

Except that just about the entire game was designed around a 2d6 RNG. you tend to run into some hard core issues when you port such a system into a FPS. Zero work was done to correct any translations problems. This is representative of PGI's development philosophy.... minimally viable product.

This game was #()%&(%& from day one. Incredible amounts of voluminous feed back was provided for months. regarding TTK. What we got was ghost heat and quirks.... This is so sad. The game has such potential and a steam releases is just a money grab.

I think it has a lot to do with players saying I should hit what I aim at cause "I haz mad skillz!" Then add that the Mechs were Not designed for actually being shot at.