212 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

OZHomerOZ, on 04 August 2015 - 11:54 PM, said:

Direwolf's are only dangerous when in front. Why you stare at Direwolf eyes.

Some day I hope to see the dying face of teh Dire Wolf Pilot as my Atlas-S Pummels him into the long cold sleep! Thats why I face down any opponent.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

AEgg, on 04 August 2015 - 02:51 PM, said:

Go play 1v1 in a private match with any mech against any other mech and then come tell me TTK is too low.

We need smaller team sizes or a reason to split up, not more armor.

We are making turnaments once for a while in the unit, so yeah I play 1v1, and yeah TTK is damn too low for my taste.
Its 3 alphas to take down any mek. So that is why in group fights meks goes down instantly.
Some of you just always says is fine. Just about everything. After moduls TTK was fine, after clans TTK was fine, after quirks TTK was fine. With all those changes DPS has rise up about 70% across the board. But yeah TTK is still fu/ck/in fine for you.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 05 August 2015 - 01:54 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 05 August 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

We are making turnaments once for a while in the unit, so yeah I play 1v1, and yeah TTK is damn too low for my taste.
Its 3 alphas to take down any mek. So that is why in group fights meks goes down instantly.
Some of you just always says is fine. Just about everything. After moduls TTK was fine, after clans TTK was fine, after quirks TTK was fine. With all those changes DPS has rise up about 70% across the board. But yeah TTK is still fu/ck/in fine for you.

It depends on teh Alpha. and how much armor is stripped off the target. Most Light Mechs are doomed by a single Gauss/AC20 hit... Heck even a Single PPC blast almost removes teh leg from a stock Jenner on TT. And here we are not even allowed the pleasure of legging a Mech cause It's not fair!

[Dino Might]

This thread was over with WintersDark's first response.

Doubling armor hurts the small mechs even more. Those of you who want to double armor again, have fun when it's 12 Direwolves vs 12 Direwolves. I hear World of Warships is pretty fun if you want to play that type of game. I'll at least have Heavy Gear Assault after non-Cheetah lights are finally flushed down the toilet for good.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Just lower RoF globally.
Real Heat Scale or something about fixing PPFLD would nice too of course.

[Lugh]

Dino Might, on 05 August 2015 - 02:09 AM, said:

This thread was over with WintersDark's first response.

Doubling armor hurts the small mechs even more. Those of you who want to double armor again, have fun when it's 12 Direwolves vs 12 Direwolves. I hear World of Warships is pretty fun if you want to play that type of game. I'll at least have Heavy Gear Assault after non-Cheetah lights are finally flushed down the toilet for good.

Only if it ever gets out of alpha. I'm not throwing money at another robot game anytime soon. PGI has made me wary of that.

And Heavy Gear, while ok, always left me feeling let down that it was NOT Mech warrior.

Edited by Lugh, 05 August 2015 - 06:03 AM.

[Burktross]

Shade 03, on 03 August 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

Oh ho
Maybe the lights SHOULD think twice about charging an atlas.
Maybe the atlas SHOULDNT go down from three or four light mech alphas
MAybe the light pilots should FEAR the larger mechs instead of jumping in and attacking because they can with little consequence relying on their crappy hit boxes and hitreg fail to keep them alive.

You must be a cheetah pilot

Yeah! **** light mechs! Get big or get rekt!

Bush Hopper, on 04 August 2015 - 04:30 AM, said:

If you cannot destroy your targets ridiculously easily, then the problem lies with you not with the others being killed too fast. Learn to aim and see why people are complaining about TTK. Or let me translate it in your language "get gud yourself, n00b"

Nerfing because people are too good?
What?

Edited by Burktross, 05 August 2015 - 07:16 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Don't worry. PvE fixes all this.

The filthy casuals leave, and all the die-hard try-hards are left to push the Sisyphean Boulder up the mountain screaming "I'M HAVING FUN!" in either a vain attempt to convince themselves of that or that they really do enjoy being in a perpetual struggle and rage.

[Joseph Mallan]

Burktross, on 05 August 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

Nerfing because people are too good?
What?

Are you surprised to read that?

[M4rtyr]

Of course most people, regardless of what side of the TTK fence they are on are completely missing the point and just complaining with nothing behind it...

This shows the lack of good player population more than MM, which isn't actually very slow surprisingly.

[Joseph Mallan]

M4rtyr, on 05 August 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

Of course most people, regardless of what side of the TTK fence they are on are completely missing the point and just complaining with nothing behind it...

This shows the lack of good player population more than MM, which isn't actually very slow surprisingly.

What needs to be behind
"I want to live longer"
or

"I want my enemy to die faster."

The thinking is pretty basic either way. Does it really need to be complex?

[White Bear 84]

For all the effort we the player base make to address the issues with balance (convergence, ttk, armor, ghost heat, aplhas, elo, MM and the list goes on) will PGI ever change the system.. ..at least any time soon

It's take how long for ECM to get reviewed after how long..

(Soz PGI, I love MWO very much and you do so well making small improvements, but the aforementioned content has been in the 'to do' lobby, waiting for way too long.. ..to find its match)

[Joseph Mallan]

White Bear 84, on 05 August 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

For all the effort we the player base make to address the issues with balance (convergence, ttk, armor, ghost heat, aplhas, elo, MM and the list goes on) will PGI ever change the system.. ..at least any time soon

It's take how long for ECM to get reviewed after how long..

(Soz PGI, I love MWO very much and you do so well making small improvements, but the aforementioned content has been in the 'to do' lobby, waiting for way too long.. ..to find its match)

If they change it they will still be harassed cause "they didn't change it the way I said to!" So why bother?!

[General Solo]

Kjudoon, on 05 August 2015 - 12:58 AM, said:

And yet I see it happen regularly where a mech has low damage high kills. Its either the overquirked overpowered or broken mechs doing it. It may not be 42 points a kill but is in that arena. You also can tell it is high alpha not kill snaking when nobody on that team is compensating with very high damage output and low or no kills and few assists.

And yet I see it happen regularly where a mech has low damage high kills. Its either the overquirked overpowered or broken mechs doing it. It may not be 42 points a kill but is in that arena. You also can tell it is high alpha not kill snaking when nobody on that team is compensating with very high damage output and low or no kills and few assists.

I understand how you feel however my opinion on the cause differs from yours.

Most players have difficulty aiming at a single location repeatedly. Therefore more damage is required to kill a target.

However a person with the ability to target a single location repeatedly can kill a target with much lower damage to that target.

To illustrate my point:

Example1:
If a player has a mech that can do 68Damage@500meters, they can kill any mech in the game in 3 strikes or less, if they shoot CT and land all damage to CT with 500m **

(** Assumes Direwolf - Maximum Armour, No rear Armour >>>> CT 124 Armour + 62 Internal Structure=186 hit points)

Mech Class/Tons/Strikes to Kill and Damage to Kill

Light/35T/1 StrikesPerKill/66 Damage per kill
Medium/55T/2 StrikesPerKill/108 Damage per kill
Heavy/75T/3 StrikesPerKill/138 Damage per kill
Assault/100T/3 StrikesPerKill/186 Damage per kill

In the example I used the heaviest mech in each class, on smaller mech you will see even better results.

So we can see that accurate weapons fire reduces both the TTK and Damage per kill.

And if people with that same skill focus fire, well the results are divided by the number of people firing resulting in an even lower TTK and Damage per kill.

For example 3 people shooting at the same Direwolfs CT as in the example above would result in it being dead in one strike with the person getting the kill awarded about 62 damage for the kill. Imagine if it was a light mech(22 damage per kill).

So how can you defend against that.

Well the good news is that the data represents targets that are:

• Standing still
  
• Walking directly away or toward you with no lateral movement
  
• Targets that are unawaress

Good Defensive measures are:

• Keep moving
  
• Torso twist to spread damage over a number of locations
  
• Travel sideways across the enemies point of view
  
• Maintain situational awareness.
  
• Have cover/terrain/teammates nearby

Well thats my opinion, on the high kill low damage thing.





As for quirks

Personally quirks don't bother me and I run clan mechs 80% of the time.
Huggins, shoot them them before they get in range.
Stalkers, dont try to out peak them, hit them from the sides.
Thunderwub - as per huggin
Dragon N - shoot off right arm or torso ASAP
etc

My stance on the Dire wolf is due to the fact that its disadvantages balance out its advantages. Anyone standing in front of a Dire Wolf deserves what they get.

(Slow, cant torso spread, often left to die, not manuverable versus Biggest mech , with most armour and weapons pod space)

I think its a good balance

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 06 August 2015 - 02:09 AM.

[Ordin Hall]

Halve overheat cap, make DHS double.

[Night Thastus]

Bush Hopper, on 04 August 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

...or you need to learn to place your shots better and see how fast mechs blow up.
Just one of many examples...I fooled around with builds and put 6 MPL in a Hellbringer and a poor Raven-L showed up shortly after the match began.
Full salvo on the CT and he went up. His brother Raven came next. Same thing. And I doubt they got much damage because as I said before the match was young and they were running along the canyon.
Not very satisfying for me, but I guess even less for them.

If I want crap like that I can go and play regular shooters instead of MWO: Medal Of Honour Edition

You hit a raven (a 35-ton light mech) with 6 clan medium pulse lasers.
And you're complaining about it dying fast? Are you nuts?

That is 48 pin-point damage.

If it's any kind of normal raven, it runs an XL. You did 48 points of damage (likely to the side torso) where the XL engine is.
No wonder if f*cking blew up.

It only has 32 armor + 16 structure in that spot. Assuming it wasn't hurt, that's exactly enough to kill it. If it was hurt, than you did extra. You just got lucky and managed to land it all in one spot, or it was hurt.

Either way, that's nothing to "prove" that TTK is too low.

[Kjudoon]

that's not pinpoint damage. It is NEAR Pinpoint damage. It has a short enough duration, you probably got all on the same component, but not a guarantee.

Any small mech should splatter when you pop it's CT or RT with that.

And that's the problem. You should not be able to focus like that without standing stock still for like 3 seconds.

[Khobai]

Quote

Doubling armor hurts the small mechs even more.

Thats why increasing internal structure is a much better solution.

Because the bigger mechs will still have exposed internal structure and take critical hits to components.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Kira_Onime, on 03 August 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

Armor already was doubled at one point.

Yeah before OB

and why would there be any purist hate? This game is so far off the base already that it shouldnt be called a battletech game but a lightly battletech flavored game (with artificial flavors added and 5% juice)

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 06 August 2015 - 10:30 PM.

[Veev]

Wintersdark, on 03 August 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

You're clearly new here, and have no damned idea what you're talking about.

1) I am an Assault pilot primarily. Assault for when I need to perform, Mediums for when I'm having fun. This is pretty common knowledge. I am a spectacularly bad light pilot, and dislike them immensely.
2) Your list? It's directly contrary to the game design principles, which state that it should not be a power progression from light>medium>heavy>assault. And it shouldn't be. Why? Because:
3) Have you looked at the queue sizes, particularly pre-cheetah release (they'll go back after the new mech smell wears off)? Lights are typically at less than 10%. Mediums around 15-20%. Heavies pushing 40%. This is a problem. Lights are the hardest class to play, and the least rewarding.

Look. In tabletop, weapons do the same list damage. Mechs have HALF the armor they do here. That means your locust loses like 10 armor to it's CT, and the Atlas loses some 60. THAT IS HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE. Even assaults should be very wary of a single ERPPC, and tremble in fear of an AC20. Now, things are different here because of convergence and whatnot, and that's where problems come from, but the fact remains that there is already WAY more survivability difference between a light and an assault than there should be. Doubling armor again makes it even worse.

I have a problem with your emphasis on 2. The game was supposed to be designed with an emphasis on role warfare. Part of Role warfare means having power progression from one chassis to another. The assault is supposed to be a damage platform and a damage soaker. This means it is supposed to "power progression from light>medium>heavy>assault."

The Light is designed as a scout/support mech, not a brawler. I do think a wolf pack should be able to take out an assault. I also love the fact an assault gets taken out by 3-4 light alphas to the back or to the cockpit. I would not mind if it was twice that many. Bad pilots will be bad and wont pay attention. Further doubling an atlas CT armor is not going to make it survive longer when a "player" runs into the middle of 6 mechs with open firing lines.TTK will receive a marginal bump for bad players. Good players will become even more powerful.
If you want to fix TTK you need weapon convergence. It would raise the skill ceiling if done right and the current "elite" would whine for the next 2 years as they try to learn something other than the noob tube.