204 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Just for Science™:

SHADOW CAT SHC-PRIME 24 15 9 1.67 17 15 1.13 7,938 53,638 02:26:23
SHADOW CAT SHC-A 27 14 13 1.08 24 17 1.41 8,099 52,209 02:38:02
SHADOW CAT SHC-B 30 17 13 1.31 25 21 1.19 9,676 52,370 02:37:13

There. Those are my self-proclaimed scrub stats for the Scat. Have fun.

[Nathan Foxbane]

SHADOW CAT SHC-PRIME 16 11 5 2.20 12 10 1.20 2,981 14,866 01:57:06
SHADOW CAT SHC-A 18 5 13 0.38 6 15 0.40 3,475 15,323 01:53:09
SHADOW CAT SHC-B 12 7 5 1.40 12 5 2.40 3,835 19,123 01:25:31
SHADOW CAT SHC-P 32 11 21 0.52 48 23 2.09 8,441 26,875 03:42:13
Oddly enough everything except the P runs stock. Only the P has elites, and it got skewed by an epic 7 kill game I had, I ran out of ammo before I could bag number 8. IS XLs do not respond well to 6 MGs, a UAC/10, and TC1.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 06 August 2015 - 01:35 PM.

[Lightfoot]

It's not the mech from MW4 or MW3. PGI's Clan Mechlab put the fubar on that and they give the Clan mechs no extra hardpoints so the Shadow Cat prime has 2 energy and 1 ballistic hardpoint, but can't really carry a UAC20 and a LB-20X doesn't fit. The best it does in MWO is LRM support, although it has some lackluster options like 2xER Large and an ER Medium. MASC is nerfed to only give a 10% speed buff (106 kph) when an XL 300 engine would go faster (118.9 kph) for no additional weight.

PGI just does the canon TT Battletech when it suits them it seems. Canon 3 hardpoints, not canon 106 kph MASC, should be 121 kph. There should be some give and take, give 5 energy hardpoints for the 106 kph MASC. Fair is fair.

[STEF_]

Tristan Winter, on 06 August 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

Are the ACH stats only from pugging? Dear god, I wonder how the MM works in this game.

50 solo and 50 pugging in group que.

Of course, MM don't work... or, maybe, I can carry when I'm in a mech that fits to me

[STEF_]

Tristan Winter, on 06 August 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

But why is that? What does that really tell us? Nothing.

Stats tell us!
Sorry, but you yourself explain those stats:
"Because maybe my Summoners are all min-maxed as hell (The SMN-D is a cheesy SRM-boat and note its KDR) while my Timber Wolves are just fun builds. My TBR-Prime has actually been a pure stock build throughout those 60 matches. 2xLRM20, 2xERLL, 2xERML, 1xMPL and 2xMG. Not optimal for MWO."

[Fate 6]

I've been seeing an average of 300 damage per game on most of these Scat posts. My Ice Ferret average is 375 in the 4ERML build. For comparison my Grid Iron is 450, Timber is 500, and HBR is 600 (all with over 100 games played on laser or laser+gauss builds). It should be reasonable to assume 400 damage average in the scat considering my BJ-1X is close to 500 damage average.

[MechB Kotare]

SHC is very meh, despite of my love towards the mech in previous MW series and how much i try to make it work. Its way too fragile, and limited customization options for clans decrease ways of builds manipulations even further.

Pros:
- ECM Capable
- MASC
- High mounted weapon slots
- JJs

Cons:
- Fragile
- MASC (only 10% speed buff - only good for acceleration decceleration)
- Lower mounted cocpit
- Fixed JJs

Its really bad comparing to other (and heavier) mechs, but its kinda fun to play as hill poking 3x cERLL sniper, or Jumping 2x cERPPCsniper (poptart). Long range, long range and again long range.

EBJ is pure love btw. Looks sexy. And the mix of high mounted energy and balistic slots is ossim!
ACH seems ok, but im missing the 4th (C) variant, which gives it all those energy slots unlocking potentionally the most viable build atm (6-7x cSPL)

Edited by MechB Kotare, 06 August 2015 - 02:01 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

Stefka Kerensky, on 06 August 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

50 solo and 50 pugging in group que.
Of course, MM don't work... or, maybe, I can carry when I'm in a mech that fits to me

I was mostly wondering why MM doesn't put you in matches with better opponents, unless you're actually one of the most elite players in the game. But in the group queue, MM works even worse than in the solo queue, so that helps explain it. I'm sure you're a good player, but those numbers were just too absurd for pugging.

Stefka Kerensky, on 06 August 2015 - 01:54 PM, said:

Stats tell us!
Sorry, but you yourself explain those stats:
"Because maybe my Summoners are all min-maxed as hell (The SMN-D is a cheesy SRM-boat and note its KDR) while my Timber Wolves are just fun builds. My TBR-Prime has actually been a pure stock build throughout those 60 matches. 2xLRM20, 2xERLL, 2xERML, 1xMPL and 2xMG. Not optimal for MWO."

That is not a very scientific approach to such a discussion. That's just my personal theory, and I'm obviously horrendously biased since those are my own stats. There are so many variables and such a limited sample. If you want to look at meaningful stats, you have to look at someone like Kiyyor who is compiling the data from thousands and thousands of matches from hundreds of different players. But his stats can only show a limited amount of correlation between a few different factors, not causality.

Maybe my explanation was wrong. Maybe my Summoner has better stats because I was using modules. There are many possible explanations.

Statistics, at this level, are meaningless. After years of experience, I think many players are qualified to say that the Shadow Cat isn't as good as a Tier 1 mech or as bad as a Tier 5 mech, but to decide its exact capabilities, I think you need a broader scope than looking at individual players

[Event Horizon]

Most people just suck in them. Not a mech for everyone.

[MechWarrior849305]

Oh, please... Someone would say that many suck in SDR-5V Show some play in competitves

[Bishop Steiner]

Eugenics, on 06 August 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

Most people just suck in them. Not a mech for everyone.

aka it sucks, but it fits the play style of a select few. cool story.

[STEF_]

Tristan Winter, on 06 August 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

MM works even worse than in the solo queue, so that helps explain it. I'm sure you're a good player, but those numbers were just too absurd for pugging.

I'm average, there are players worse tham me, but also I know players better than me.
For instance this is 100% solo drops:

Tristan Winter, on 06 August 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

That is not a very scientific approach to such a discussion. That's just my personal theory, and I'm obviously horrendously biased since those are my own stats. There are so many variables and such a limited sample. If you want to look at meaningful stats, you have to look at someone like Kiyyor who is compiling the data from thousands and thousands of matches from hundreds of different players. But his stats can only show a limited amount of correlation between a few different factors, not causality.

Maybe my explanation was wrong. Maybe my Summoner has better stats because I was using modules. There are many possible explanations.

Statistics, at this level, are meaningless. After years of experience, I think many players are qualified to say that the Shadow Cat isn't as good as a Tier 1 mech or as bad as a Tier 5 mech, but to decide its exact capabilities, I think you need a broader scope than looking at individual players

I'm agree with this, but also I need an instrument to measure if I'm doing well or wrong with the mechs I pilot, not only personal feeling. And that's a way I use to "understand" something about.
Also "everyone has its own shoes", and for instance you are doing well with SHC, and it is not a personal feeling (such as "I have fun with it", "it is a cool mech" etc.), but a concrete data: 350 dmg.

It also happens to me: average speaking, the ferret is considered a subpar...but the only thing I care is that I'm doing fine with it.
Because it fits well with my style.

Your can take advantage of your own stats trying to understand how to improve a mech, for instance changing loadout in your Timber without doubt you can see an improvement: you know yourself and your style, and you can fit a timber loadout according to these, and then, after 20-30 matches, you can check stats and see if something is changing.

Stats are not the "bible for everyone", but are helpful.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 06 August 2015 - 10:42 PM.

[Widowmaker1981]

The thing is, the SCat does everything extremely well, except DPS. Its DPS is shockingly bad compared to other 45 tonners, and even 35 tonners. In fast, stompy matches it simply doesn't have a place because it cannot put out sufficient DPS to contribute enough in the time the match lasts, because it is heatcapped constantly.

However, it is brilliant at sniping / poptarting with the twin PPCs, and then relocating fast while you bleed some heat so you can pop up in a completely unexpected place and take another shot - in puglandia where stand offs and slow games are common it shines and i can frequently pull off 600-700 dmg games, even on hot maps.

When selecting a mech for large stompy group or comp play, the primary attribute you look at is DPS, its that simple, because games are aggressive and fast and you need DPS or you simply cannot contribute. When looking from that angle the S-Cat is a **** on a stick, and i think thats why so many people are writing it off.

As an aside, i wouldnt drop MASC. If i could rebuild it, the only thing i would change (assuming i couldnt change hardpoints) would be to drop to an XL255 and lose 1 or 2 JJs in order to pack in 2 or 3 more DHS. MASC is amazing for jump snipers, because of the acceleration when you land (yeah, it should give the same %age speed as the exe gets but its not a huge deal)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 06 August 2015 - 11:49 PM.

[Moldur]

Not worth it. I'm not saying it's strictly bad, but it is disappointing.

Yeah, you can do some good damage, but it's still going to be a disappointing experience, especially if you recall the Shadowcat being fun to pilot.

It's a very unsatisfying mech in my opinion. ECM, MASC, and jump jets. Sure, It's nifty and useful. I've pumped out a lot of 600+ damage games in the Shadowcat, but it's just not that fun. I'm not saying anything against being able to make the mech work and carry its weight. It can be combat effective, sure. It's still disappointing, especially if your purchase is nostalgia influenced.

[Kilo 40]

If I went by my stats, the Mad Dog is the greatist mech ever while the Timber Wolf sucks.

also one of my Shadow Cat's averages 350ish damage with a 1.60 K/D while my other averages 190ish with .36 K/D. and the kicker? That's with the exact same loadout.

[Bloody]

nah it is an average 45 tonner. Not bad but not great. The best thing about it is the ECM

[spectralthundr]

Yes it's worth it if you like fun. It was a loss but still fun racking up 940

[Bishop Steiner]

spectralthundr, on 07 August 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

Yes it's worth it if you like fun. It was a loss but still fun racking up 940

Impossible to have fun in loss. Do you even Comp?

[Kodyn]

Just out of pure curiosity, I read this whole thread...

So.

Much.

Salt.

It's like a mine in here, just salt all over... I get it, some people have some very strong opinions on what other people should and shouldn't be doing in this game, but wow. I've seen less salt in debates on the magic jesus box than the Scat, is it really such a divisive mech? Or does everyone just hate each other even more than normal in this particular thread?

[bad arcade kitty]

i don't get why salt is used to signify annoyance; it's a natural anti-depressant and a flavor enhancer.... leaving aside it's a natural preservative, disinfectant and even cosmetics and dentifrice; there is absolutely nothing related to annoyance there