1017 replies to this topic

[Major Lag]

nvm.

Edited by Major Lag, 08 November 2016 - 03:08 PM.

[MTier Slayed Up]

Zibmo, on 19 December 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

I think you are conflating "new players" with "don't want to learn". If their "betters" are similar to those I've had the extreme fortune to drop with, expectations are high and communications are non-existent. So if those "new players who don't want to learn" aren't taught, they are left with trying to figure things out by themselves.

And no, haranguing them about "get on a team" (given the almost total lack of social and community tools in this game) and "get on teamspeak" (without actually giving them anything useful to act on besides google) doesn't work. Sometimes, though, talking to your ilk is similar to trying to teach a pig to dance: it frustrates me and pisses you off.

I'll try and separate it a bit better to avoid confusion.
-The new influx of players due to the Steam release has caused immense frustration. I'm not sure about the actual numbers, but I'll say a quarter to give the benefit of the doubt. These players in particular, are simply killing the fun for CW players who want to actually play the game the way it's meant to be played, through teamwork. Again, nothing wrong with learning the game, but players whom have experience that are shot calling, trying to rally everyone and these group of players just outright ignore them, it just kills the game and makes it that much harder for the other 11 (or however many are cooperating.) to win.

Some of the units I've dropped with offer the TS channel so the PUGs we get can hop on to avoid VOIP, most of the time the PUG's don't bother, and to make it worse, sometimes they disable chat/VOIP and just do their own thing without a care in the world. I would rather lose a game with a 12 man, knowing that we did what we could and simply got outplayed, instead of having a few PUG's who just want to do their own thing instead of trying to work together for a win and essentially ruin the game for everyone else.

I'm well aware of the player base that we have that just play CW purely solo are also somewhat problematic, some will cooperate and operate with the group, but the majority of the time, they just do their own thing. I'd like to think that this number was much smaller before the Steam release, that's just my experience.

I would argue that they can join a legit unit. They obviously picked "Faction Play" and that means they have access to Faction Chat, and it's not entirely hard to type "Any clans/units recruiting?" I've seen very few people ask this in faction chat but almost immediately there is an -MS- member or a CWI member handing them the info needed to hop on TS and to start dropping with them. Whether this is different in other factions. I'm not sure so a different argument can be made. Still, google is an excellent resource and it did help me build particular mechs when I started out.

These are just my opinions and I'd like to keep this civil if possible if anyone would like to hop in and offer suggestions such as the ones I made in my previous post.

Edited by DrtyDshSoap, 19 December 2015 - 10:18 AM.

[Zibmo]

DrtyDshSoap, on 19 December 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

I'll try and separate it a bit better to avoid confusion.
-The new influx of players due to the Steam release has caused immense frustration. I'm not sure about the actual numbers, but I'll say a quarter to give the benefit of the doubt. These players in particular, are simply killing the fun for CW players who want to actually play the game the way it's meant to be played, through teamwork. Again, nothing wrong with learning the game, but players whom have experience that are shot calling, trying to rally everyone and these group of players just outright ignore them, it just kills the game and makes it that much harder for the other 11 (or however many are cooperating.) to win.

Some of the units I've dropped with offer the TS channel so the PUGs we get can hop on to avoid VOIP, most of the time the PUG's don't bother, and to make it worse, sometimes they disable chat/VOIP and just do their own thing without a care in the world. I would rather lose a game with a 12 man, knowing that we did what we could and simply got outplayed, instead of having a few PUG's who just want to do their own thing instead of trying to work together for a win and essentially ruin the game for everyone else.

I'm well aware of the player base that we have that just play CW purely solo are also somewhat problematic, some will cooperate and operate with the group, but the majority of the time, they just do their own thing. I'd like to think that this number was much smaller before the Steam release, that's just my experience.

I would argue that they can join a legit unit. They obviously picked "Faction Play" and that means they have access to Faction Chat, and it's not entirely hard to type "Any clans/units recruiting?" I've seen very few people ask this in faction chat but almost immediately there is an -MS- member or a CWI member handing them the info needed to hop on TS and to start dropping with them. Whether this is different in other factions. I'm not sure so a different argument can be made. Still, google is an excellent resource and it did help me build particular mechs when I started out.

These are just my opinions and I'd like to keep this civil if possible if anyone would like to hop in and offer suggestions such as the ones I made in my previous post.

Thanks. I was a bit testy. The title of the post irritates me. Perhaps I just haven't dropped with anyone from MS or Ghost Bear that have communicated when I've asked.

When the only communication I hear is from playing while watching a MS stream (in a CW match which I'm in) where the MSer who is streaming says nothing but "**** pugs" and "what a bunch of morons" while NEVER SPEAKING A WORD TO THEM, I guess it gets my dander up. During which I even asked if anyone was recruiting and received no reply nor did I get a TS link.

Perhaps there are some who do that. I'm not sure I want to play with a group of guys who "advertise" how awesome they are by telling their Twitch audience that everyone in the match who isn't them are idiots unworthy of taking another breath. Especially since I outscored most of them.

Sorry - really pissed me off.

[Inkarnus]

DrtyDshSoap, on 19 December 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

I'll try and separate it a bit better to avoid confusion.
-The new influx of players due to the Steam release has caused immense frustration. I'm not sure about the actual numbers, but I'll say a quarter to give the benefit of the doubt. These players in particular, are simply killing the fun for CW players who want to actually play the game the way it's meant to be played, through teamwork. Again, nothing wrong with learning the game, but players whom have experience that are shot calling, trying to rally everyone and these group of players just outright ignore them, it just kills the game and makes it that much harder for the other 11 (or however many are cooperating.) to win.

Some of the units I've dropped with offer the TS channel so the PUGs we get can hop on to avoid VOIP, most of the time the PUG's don't bother, and to make it worse, sometimes they disable chat/VOIP and just do their own thing without a care in the world. I would rather lose a game with a 12 man, knowing that we did what we could and simply got outplayed, instead of having a few PUG's who just want to do their own thing instead of trying to work together for a win and essentially ruin the game for everyone else.

I'm well aware of the player base that we have that just play CW purely solo are also somewhat problematic, some will cooperate and operate with the group, but the majority of the time, they just do their own thing. I'd like to think that this number was much smaller before the Steam release, that's just my experience.

I would argue that they can join a legit unit. They obviously picked "Faction Play" and that means they have access to Faction Chat, and it's not entirely hard to type "Any clans/units recruiting?" I've seen very few people ask this in faction chat but almost immediately there is an -MS- member or a CWI member handing them the info needed to hop on TS and to start dropping with them. Whether this is different in other factions. I'm not sure so a different argument can be made. Still, google is an excellent resource and it did help me build particular mechs when I started out.

These are just my opinions and I'd like to keep this civil if possible if anyone would like to hop in and offer suggestions such as the ones I made in my previous post.

Idk but i feel there is a huge mentallity gap between units and even INSIDE units.
I just talked about this with my bro that just started out in this game a short while ago.
He practically said most units dont care about the pugplayer basically fodder meatshild.
No ts offers no pickupgroups and as soon as they see he drops in trials they turn in anguish
(there are exceptions thou!!! just not the majority).
Even thou he sends me funny pictures with 1k+ damage in full trial dropdeck CW games and iam like wtf how that work . Well i shouldnt have told him how this game works he was always the better FPS player from us both.

Edited by Inkarnus, 19 December 2015 - 12:25 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

Zibmo, on 19 December 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

I think you are conflating "new players" with "don't want to learn". If their "betters" are similar to those I've had the extreme fortune to drop with, expectations are high and communications are non-existent. So if those "new players who don't want to learn" aren't taught, they are left with trying to figure things out by themselves.

And no, haranguing them about "get on a team" (given the almost total lack of social and community tools in this game) and "get on teamspeak" (without actually giving them anything useful to act on besides google) doesn't work. Sometimes, though, talking to your ilk is similar to trying to teach a pig to dance: it frustrates me and pisses you off.

You cant teach people who dont speak english, or seemingly dont speak english. I've seen a 4 man from a unit charge into the base by themselves through another gate with predictable results. They simply would not respond to any attempt at communication for the whole match.

And you cant teach basic skills in such a short time either. If you have a new player in a trial catapault or a HBK-4P, there are very limited ways they can help other than to act as damage shields, especially since most new players simply stop moving and facetank, even if they are in light mechs. Even if they group up and move together, its not going to make a difference if the enemy team is full of veterans in tricked out mechs.

Zibmo, on 19 December 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Thanks. I was a bit testy. The title of the post irritates me. Perhaps I just haven't dropped with anyone from MS or Ghost Bear that have communicated when I've asked.

When the only communication I hear is from playing while watching a MS stream (in a CW match which I'm in) where the MSer who is streaming says nothing but "**** pugs" and "what a bunch of morons" while NEVER SPEAKING A WORD TO THEM, I guess it gets my dander up. During which I even asked if anyone was recruiting and received no reply nor did I get a TS link.

Perhaps there are some who do that. I'm not sure I want to play with a group of guys who "advertise" how awesome they are by telling their Twitch audience that everyone in the match who isn't them are idiots unworthy of taking another breath. Especially since I outscored most of them.

Sorry - really pissed me off.

I too find it disturbing that i have run into several units that will not communicate with the rest of the team, to the point where they will just suddenly pull back or stop and let everyone else on the team die. Does not say much about their teamwork skills...

[IraqiWalker]

Zibmo, on 19 December 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Thanks. I was a bit testy. The title of the post irritates me. Perhaps I just haven't dropped with anyone from MS or Ghost Bear that have communicated when I've asked.

When the only communication I hear is from playing while watching a MS stream (in a CW match which I'm in) where the MSer who is streaming says nothing but "**** pugs" and "what a bunch of morons" while NEVER SPEAKING A WORD TO THEM, I guess it gets my dander up. During which I even asked if anyone was recruiting and received no reply nor did I get a TS link.

Perhaps there are some who do that. I'm not sure I want to play with a group of guys who "advertise" how awesome they are by telling their Twitch audience that everyone in the match who isn't them are idiots unworthy of taking another breath. Especially since I outscored most of them.

Sorry - really pissed me off.

I would like to interject and say that most of us don't behave like that streamer.

I've had the good luck of never dropping in a CW match where people just tossed feces at one another. when someone says "pugs who don't want to learn" we're usually talking about solo pilots who are asked to follow a plan, but decide to rambo their way into an early loss.

As for teamspeak, we usually don't just say "get on teamspeak", plenty of us give addresses, and we also ask them to PM us after the match, so we can get them on the channel, and get a proper team going.

specimens like that idiot cussing pugs, or insulting new players without helping them, are definitely not ones we want to see, or be considered as representatives of us.

[Jun Watarase]

IraqiWalker, on 20 December 2015 - 03:11 AM, said:

I would like to interject and say that most of us don't behave like that streamer.

I've had the good luck of never dropping in a CW match where people just tossed feces at one another. when someone says "pugs who don't want to learn" we're usually talking about solo pilots who are asked to follow a plan, but decide to rambo their way into an early loss.

As for teamspeak, we usually don't just say "get on teamspeak", plenty of us give addresses, and we also ask them to PM us after the match, so we can get them on the channel, and get a proper team going.

specimens like that idiot cussing pugs, or insulting new players without helping them, are definitely not ones we want to see, or be considered as representatives of us.

What about units that run all meta decks and hide in their drop zone on counter attack when facing pugs

[IraqiWalker]

Jun Watarase, on 20 December 2015 - 03:34 AM, said:

What about units that run all meta decks and hide in their drop zone on counter attack when facing pugs

What about them?

They're not doing anything illegal, are they? I may not like their plan, but they're certainly allowed to have it.

That's not the same as flaming people.

[Roland09]

Jun Watarase, on 20 December 2015 - 03:34 AM, said:

What about units that run all meta decks and hide in their drop zone on counter attack when facing pugs

Here is the perfect thread for you:

http://mwomercs.com/...enough-whining/

[Lupis Volk]

Sometimes i think we need to look at the pre-mades instead of the Pugs.

[Jun Watarase]

IraqiWalker, on 20 December 2015 - 04:01 AM, said:

What about them?

They're not doing anything illegal, are they? I may not like their plan, but they're certainly allowed to have it.

That's not the same as flaming people.

Well its certaintly not illegal, still not acceptable behaviour though.

[oldradagast]

I find it all amusing; people get what they ask for in this case, and then still whine about it.

Too many try-hards or laughable pixel commanders wanted a vast world where "anything goes," and where fun is to be discouraged in the face of mind-numbing, repetitive competition, and where filthy PUG's and casuals were not welcome. And they got it, in all its miserable glory... and then act surprised at the outcome.

If we limit CW to 12-mans or other big teams, the game mode will be completely dead since it'll be surprising if the system will have enough people to pair in a game at all.

If we continue the current course of idiocy, where split-up PUG's and small casual teams are fed into the meat-grinder against practiced 12-man teams, you'll find matches easier for awhile... until all those players quit CW, never to return.

The proper solution is to fix CW so it offers a fun experience for all players with appropriate match-making by skill, team-size, etc. Big teams play big teams, small groups vs. small groups, etc. But that would require real effort and - more importantly - end the free wins and delusions of "real war" held by the tiny, angry minority who still clings to this game mode while thinking that the "real problem" is that others players are unwilling to get stomped repeatedly or change their entire lifestyle to fit in hours of MWO practice to "git gud." It's idiocy - the game must match the audience, not the other way around.

[Jon Gotham]

So, speaking to other players in your match over the IN GAME voip or text chat isn't partly a solution? Or maybe NOT trying to solo rambo everything in mwo?
Getting to know other people in your faction via the 100% completely FREE faction TS hubs that other people pay for, for your own convenience isn't part of the solution?

Sorry mate, but your solution turns CW into solo Q v2 with 4 respawns. Might as well scrap solo and group queue and just have that.. Whilst we are at it, take out the buddy list and disband all units as you seem to want MWO to be the sole domain of the super solo who wants to shut out the multiplayer part of MMO.
In fact why don't we all stop playing mmos altogether and just lobby devs to make singleplayer versions of everything.

Sorry for that sarcasm but I've just about had enough of this silliness.

Maybe it's more gamemode variety that drives these players to CW-but trouble is a team based game requires teamwork, that means speaking and typing. Anything more than TDM needs teamwork, sorry. They obviously want more than team solomatch buit are not willing to put that extra teesny bit of effort in, so what does PGI do about that exactly?
The only real solution to this issue is to stop being an anti social super solo and actually talk to other players. A community where people communicate and work/play together is a thriving community. What you seem to want is a collective of individuals.
Enough please, a kind request for all forumite's sanity..stop it now fella:)

[Lazor Sharp]

^^^^^^^^ This SO SO MUCH THIS.......

So much of this Game's Player base is SO antisocial, anti any kind of team work, just completely anti any thing that might help them be better. Or they are just so uber casuel, that they only want the throw the ball around in the back yard with their friends once a week level of game play.....

So, I have a feeling, that when Single Player w/ 4man co-op campaign gets here, with mission/map packs that can be sold, MWO will have about 50% or so of it's player's, that will go play SP/co-op modes exclusively, and only maybe 10% of them will ever play the muilty player 12 man Team Game again...

Edited by Lazor Sharp, 20 December 2015 - 11:39 AM.

[Aresye]

There's three ways to win in solo CW:
- Take charge, use VOIP, and lead the team to victory with simple to follow orders.
- Have at least 4 players who are good enough to pull 2000+ damage.
- Have at least 1 player who's good enough to pull 4000+ damage.

Of course, none of these are guarantees, but the problem with the majority of solo players isn't the lack of teamwork, but rather a combination of lack of teamwork AND basic skill.

I dropped solo CW for about 4.5 hours last night, and I think my lowest damage was 2800, and my highest was just shy of 4000. You can watch my full recording here: http://www.twitch.tv...sguy/v/30859954

Below is a summary of each drop:

Drop 1 (6:00-37:00) - Sulfurous Rift - LOSS
- Multiple players not listening to commands, pushing too far ahead, or going to separate gates entirely.
- Team too passive.
- One player disconnected for entire match.

Drop 2 (50:00-1:22:00) - Grim Portico - VICTORY
- Multiple players not listening to commands, and being in bad positions (ex: 3 were standing in front of gate as it opened).
- Team pulled it together relatively well after a bad first wave, but we were still behind on the attrition.
- Game clutched at end.

Drop 3 (1:31:00-2:03:00) - Vitric Forge - VICTORY
- Enemy team included a 5man team (at the least).
- Amazing teamwork and coordination. All players listened throughout entire match.
- Team moved together.

Drop 4 (2:54:00-3:25:00) - Vitric Forge - VICTORY
- Little to no communication (was taking a break from drop commanding, but nobody was saying anything).
- Players fought reasonably well.
- Too much hiding around Omega.
- Enemy team likely would have won had they had more time.

Drop 5 (3:30:00-4:00:00) - Boreal Vault - LOSS
- Little to no communication.
- Players didn't fight very well. Poor mech choices for the map.
- I personally should have gotten out of my WVR-6K earlier and helped the team on the front lines.
- With one other player and myself, we put up (IMO) one of the greatest last stands, and nearly stole a victory from certain defeat.

Drop 6 (4:34:00-5:01:00) - Grim Portico - VICTORY
- Enemy team included a 7man (at least).
- Amazing teamwork and coordination.
- Great communication. All players were talking to each other.
- Couldn't ask for a better selection of players to drop with.

Notice how the games we lost were against solos, yet the two best games with the best communication were ones in which we were facing an organized group.

Despite the teamwork and communication however, I was still pulling a very high number of kills and high damage, and that's because in each game there were multiple players with sub-500 damage, which doesn't cut it.

To think of CW in the simplest terms, each player has 4 mechs, and it takes ~ (on average) between 200-300 damage per mech to kill. Thus, the BARE MINIMUM a player should be doing each CW match, is 4 kills and 800-1200 damage. That's equivalent to doing 1 kill and 200-300 damage in normal queue. Each player should be aiming to do more than the bare minimum. I had two games in which 2 separate players were active the entire match, yet did less than 100 damage for the entire CW game. I'm sorry but that is just completely unacceptable.

When players don't pull their weight, it falls on someone else to pick up the slack. That's how 3000+ damage matches happen. Yes it's impressive when a player gets 4000+, but it's also very sad, because that normally means an entire lance's worth of players were not pulling their weight.

[xX PUG Xx]

oldradagast, on 20 December 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

I find it all amusing; people get what they ask for in this case, and then still whine about it.

Too many try-hards or laughable pixel commanders wanted a vast world where "anything goes," and where fun is to be discouraged in the face of mind-numbing, repetitive competition, and where filthy PUG's and casuals were not welcome. And they got it, in all its miserable glory... and then act surprised at the outcome.

If we limit CW to 12-mans or other big teams, the game mode will be completely dead since it'll be surprising if the system will have enough people to pair in a game at all.

If we continue the current course of idiocy, where split-up PUG's and small casual teams are fed into the meat-grinder against practiced 12-man teams, you'll find matches easier for awhile... until all those players quit CW, never to return.

The proper solution is to fix CW so it offers a fun experience for all players with appropriate match-making by skill, team-size, etc. Big teams play big teams, small groups vs. small groups, etc. But that would require real effort and - more importantly - end the free wins and delusions of "real war" held by the tiny, angry minority who still clings to this game mode while thinking that the "real problem" is that others players are unwilling to get stomped repeatedly or change their entire lifestyle to fit in hours of MWO practice to "git gud." It's idiocy - the game must match the audience, not the other way around.

I'm guessing you ain't been playing much FW..... the number of 12 man boog-a-loos is small in comparison to the number small to mid sized groups (2-6 players) and minute compared to the number of solo droppers.

So your arguement/statement about 12 mans rolling willy nilly over everything and everyone is inaccurate (and it always was I'm afraid). The statement about splitting the queues however IS a good solution but ONLY if the full population of the game was incorporated in FW, otherwise it simply would not have the volume to allow it to work.

I've said before that I felt a persistent style world should be the main focus of the game but we are too far down the rabbit hole for that to happen now. I still feel it could have given the game a far more immersive tilt, while being able to cater for different levels of skill, involvement and reward. Ho hum......

[Aresye]

xX PUG Xx, on 20 December 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

I'm guessing you ain't been playing much FW..... the number of 12 man boog-a-loos is small in comparison to the number small to mid sized groups (2-6 players) and minute compared to the number of solo droppers.

Had a game a few weeks ago where someone on the other team was just poppin' the lid off the salt shaker, all because we were a 4man.

There's no winning with these types of players. A 2man (to them) is an unfair advantage, and in the absence of any groups whatsoever, it's because Clans are OP, or quirks are OP, or their team sucks, etc.

No amount of logic or reasoning will ever get through to these types of players, because they can't comprehend the concept of personal loss. Mommy and Daddy probably raised them to always be a winner, so at any point they lose at something, it's not "them" losing, but rather some unfair external influence that got in the way.

[Darth Hotz]

10 games today among our "Steiner All Stars" mixture of different Steiner units and they were all a baby seal beating. 48:14, 48:18 and so on. 80% of our enemies had no unit tag. Although its easy money, its not a sportive challenge at all and extremely frustrating for new players to run into veterans.

For their own good PGI should limit the access to cw for newbies. If you repeatedly get hammered like this you will only get frustrated and quit playing. CW needs experience to be fun. If you are brandnew to this game, you are just meat in a grinder.


Werde Teil der Steiner Faust!

www.12donegal.de

Wir rekrutieren. Wir erklären. Wir helfen.

[Kuritaclan]

Darth Hotz, on 20 December 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

For their own good PGI should limit the access to cw for newbies. If you repeatedly get hammered like this you will only get frustrated and quit playing. CW needs experience to be fun. If you are brandnew to this game, you are just meat in a grinder.

Some see this as an incentive.

[Darth Hotz]

Kuritaclan, on 20 December 2015 - 05:19 PM, said:

Some see this as an incentive.

"Some" are usually the minority. I am afraid the majority will turn to one of the hunderts of other F2P games on steam.