1017 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

So can anyone specifically tell me why someone like a Tier 1 solo player shouldn't be allowed to play in CW unless they join a group?

[Zibmo]

DrtyDshSoap, on 29 December 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

Wait, what? How did this turn into a freedom of choice and freedom of speech comparison? An online community/game isn't subject to "American Freedoms." Assuming everyone is a rude American is really pretentious and ugly. Sorry.

As for your suggestion, I can't see it working. If you're limiting people to have mixed players, then it will essentially be an 8 man drop team with 4 pugs, vs another 8 man drop team with 4 pugs. A little bit of mix or match, but still, it wouldn't solve the ongoing issue of "lone wolves" charging forward by themselves, wasting armor and firepower that the team could have used.

Again, I would recommend that new players should have a minimum playtime in quickplay and to have mastered/elite a minimum of 4 mechs. That should roughly take a few weeks depending on the hours of a persons playtime (or wallet.) Even if the person bought his mechs, he still must play quickplay to get that exp to master/elite it. The only downside I can see this being is that A. It's a real grind for people who don't enjoy quickplay. And B. CW isn't all too rewarding and once they get there, might be a little disappointed.

Funny thing, nationalism. Some of the nastiest tourists I ever experienced while growing up abroad (in a communist country to boot) were Japanese and Euros. The Americans were embarrassing because they insisted on wearing stupid looking shorts and hats, but the Euros simply ignored anything they didn't agree with. "Don't take pictures here" was met with 32 Belgians flashing their cameras. "Please don't touch the statue" was regarded as outre by the French and Germans who simply stepped over the ropes and took pictures of themselves hugging the statues.

You can make fun of Americans all you want as long as you remember to look in the mirror occasionally.

[cattabliss]

Someone brought this up a few posts back and as a relatively new player I agree: faction warfare has the only menu chat box in the game. How else are newbs supposed to ask questions and get advice apart from looking at forum postings that are outdated with every balance change?

I get why newbis dropping in CW are being told to bug off when they wander out of bounds and die, but many also don't have a choice - how else will I get my free mech bays? It literally takes like 3 CW matches at first to get a new mech bay. And you can do this for every faction.

So why associate end game content with such low hanging fruit that encourages newbies to pick?

[Cath]

2 solo drops to see what it was like after playing for a few days. (no trials, all elited mechs, i've played quite a bit over break)

You got your wish op.

I will never que again for that garbage. I'm a long time player of all sorts of games, and I've never seen such blatant epeen stroking as the CW system represents. Sealclubbing exists in many games, but never to the magnitude that it exists in this one.

FULL premade vs full pug? comical.

Every other game that I have played has practical limits to prevent that. Maximum of 4 person groups on a 16 man team, ect. In those games a 4 man can have a large effect on the outcome IF they are good enough, but there is still the chance of a defeat. Not here. Not with this system.

See you on the solo ques

[IraqiWalker]

Sandpit, on 29 December 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

So can anyone specifically tell me why someone like a Tier 1 solo player shouldn't be allowed to play in CW unless they join a group?

I think what people are talking about now is that solo rambos are bad. Which they are. Solo pilots that play with the team are awesome. So it's more of a phrasing thing here. The OP though is it's scrapstorm that I'm not gonna touch on.

Also:

RUN AWAY SANDPIT, DON'T GET SUCKED INTO THIS QUICKSAND TRAP!!!

[IraqiWalker]

Cath, on 30 December 2015 - 11:27 PM, said:

2 solo drops to see what it was like after playing for a few days. (no trials, all elited mechs, i've played quite a bit over break)

You got your wish op.

I will never que again for that garbage. I'm a long time player of all sorts of games, and I've never seen such blatant epeen stroking as the CW system represents. Sealclubbing exists in many games, but never to the magnitude that it exists in this one.

FULL premade vs full pug? comical.

Every other game that I have played has practical limits to prevent that. Maximum of 4 person groups on a 16 man team, ect. In those games a 4 man can have a large effect on the outcome IF they are good enough, but there is still the chance of a defeat. Not here. Not with this system.

See you on the solo ques

Ever thought of using teamspeak, in game VOIP, LFG, or Faction Chat? I've literally organized 12 pugs from 3 different IS factions and managed to beat a clan 12 man, just by using teamspeak. Took us 3 drops to get everyone organized, and what not, but we pulled it off, and had a nice series of drops after that.

If you are dropping to defend Davion borders, hope onto our TS server (ts50.bargainvoice.com:7345), and join us. Wednesday Night Warfare is our busiest night, btw. I only hopped on for an hour last night from 8PM to 9 PM Central, and I saw no less than three 12 mans from HHoD alone, plus several other dropships with mixed pilots from all over the place, just for CW.

If you are jumping to defend another faction's borders, it really helps if you go visit their Teamspeak server. Which you can easily find the address to, by visiting their section in the forums, or asking in Faction Chat. Failing all of that, you can easily jump into the Comstar servers for either EU, or NA based on your location, and coordinate there.

the only way for seal clubbing to exist, is if players let themselves become seals, when they have all the tools provided for them, for free, to avoid that. Basically, you have to actively work at being a seal nowadays.

Now I'm not asking you to go back to CW. If you didn't have fun, and don't want to do it again, you're free to do that.

However, you walked past no less than 4 tools provided to you by the game, and community (if you count the forums that's 5 tools now), to help you organize, and coordinate with your team, and if you didn't use them, then I can't really say it's the game's fault.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 31 December 2015 - 01:49 PM.

[Hades Trooper]

IraqiWalker, on 31 December 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

Ever thought of using teamspeak, in game VOIP, LFG, or Faction Chat? I've literally organized 12 pugs from 3 different IS factions and managed to beat a clan 12 man, just by using teamspeak. Took us 3 drops to get everyone organized, and what not, but we pulled it off, and had a nice series of drops after that.

If you are dropping to defend Davion borders, hope onto our TS server (ts50.bargainvoice.com:7345), and join us. Wednesday Night Warfare is our busiest night, btw. I only hopped on for an hour last night from 8PM to 9 PM Central, and I saw no less than three 12 mans from HHoD alone, plus several other dropships with mixed pilots from all over the place, just for CW.

If you are jumping to defend another faction's borders, it really helps if you go visit their Teamspeak server. Which you can easily find the address to, by visiting their section in the forums, or asking in Faction Chat. Failing all of that, you can easily jump into the Comstar servers for either EU, or NA based on your location, and coordinate there.

the only way for seal clubbing to exist, is if players let themselves become seals, when they have all the tools provided for them, for free, to avoid that. Basically, you have to actively work at being a seal nowadays.

Now I'm not asking you to go back to CW. If you didn't have fun, and don't want to do it again, you're free to do that.

However, you walked past no less than 4 tools provided to you by the game, and community (if you count the forums that's 5 tools now), to help you organize, and coordinate with your team, and if you didn't use them, then I can't really say it's the game's fault.

you still flying that plague ridden HHoD flag mate?

when u gonna get a real company to belong too?

[IraqiWalker]

Hades Trooper, on 31 December 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

you still flying that plague ridden HHoD flag mate?

when u gonna get a real company to belong too?

When I stop being too lazy to leave, XP.

[Sandpit]

IraqiWalker, on 31 December 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

I think what people are talking about now is that solo rambos are bad. Which they are. Solo pilots that play with the team are awesome. So it's more of a phrasing thing here. The OP though is it's scrapstorm that I'm not gonna touch on.

Also:

RUN AWAY SANDPIT, DON'T GET SUCKED INTO THIS QUICKSAND TRAP!!!

lol good to see you Walker!

What they're really wanting to say and trying to be slick, sneaky, subversive, coy, etc. about is "I don't want "bad" players on my CW team"

They're just too chicken sh*t to say it or know that saying that would end any and all conversation and credibility with them and their ideas.

[Elthionel]

Any multiplayer scene with competitive warfare scenes either has ELO or prevents queuing of more than 2-3 people grouped together.

Unfortunately, MWO doesn't have a large enough player base to sustain pure merc vs merc battles, so they throw it all into the pot.

- As a solo player, it provides disincentive as you just get ROFLStomped by organized groups.
- Inner Sphere mechs, even with perks and balance passes (which PGI has done a pretty good job of) are still inferior to Clan mechs.
- PUGs versus organized teams are more likely to have disconnects or AFKs...
- The nature of Mechwarrior combat is the snowball effect, meaning just 4-6 organized players can dominate through coordinated focused fire.

in short, Clan Wars is an exercise in frustration for the majority of the player base, who are sacrificed to the merc groups (e.g. the hardcore players, the whales who pay for the game).

Day 1 founder, but at this point I'm convinced Community Warfare will be nothing more than an alternate gimmick mode. They won't separate the premades from the public queue, and thus the public queue is cancer for anyone playing solo.

Edited by Elthionel, 01 January 2016 - 12:35 PM.

[Cath]

IraqiWalker, on 31 December 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

the only way for seal clubbing to exist, is if players let themselves become seals, when they have all the tools provided for them, for free, to avoid that. Basically, you have to actively work at being a seal nowadays.

However, you walked past no less than 4 tools provided to you by the game, and community (if you count the forums that's 5 tools now), to help you organize, and coordinate with your team, and if you didn't use them, then I can't really say it's the game's fault.

So i tried again to try for a free bay. jokes all around. Every game i dropped in i attempted organization, nothing. joke pug vs 12 man. Loss after loss, but to you the blame lies squarely on me. Now I'm not that good, but hey I too should be allowed to enjoy my time spent playing.
The amount of "bury your head in the sand" and defend a blatantly broken system is amazing, but not unexpected. I've seen it often where the "haves" resist like hell against anything that might put their perceived superiority at risk. As it sits, it's a farmfest for those that enjoy the raiding type group experience. I've been there done that. Hardmode 10-25 mans in WotLK, before WoW got too ezmode, other similar environments. Been gaming a long time and I just cant believe someone thought this type of game mode was a good idea.

On a side note, where are the in-game tools to promote/organize 12 man drop groups (or hell any size group)? Oh yea, there arn't any. At least not obvious ones, as I have yet to group with anyone or be invited to a group in this game. Not a user friendly experience.

[Major Lag]

nvm.

Edited by Major Lag, 08 November 2016 - 03:07 PM.

[xX PUG Xx]

I did have a ANOTHER long post written but you know what?

MEH....... do what ya wanna do.

I'll still be dropping in Faction Warfare, whether as a solo or as part of a group. I have fun running around shooting 'Mechs and the longer the match lasts, the happier I am

[IraqiWalker]

Cath, on 01 January 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

So i tried again to try for a free bay. jokes all around. Every game i dropped in i attempted organization, nothing. joke pug vs 12 man. Loss after loss, but to you the blame lies squarely on me. Now I'm not that good, but hey I too should be allowed to enjoy my time spent playing.
The amount of "bury your head in the sand" and defend a blatantly broken system is amazing, but not unexpected. I've seen it often where the "haves" resist like hell against anything that might put their perceived superiority at risk. As it sits, it's a farmfest for those that enjoy the raiding type group experience. I've been there done that. Hardmode 10-25 mans in WotLK, before WoW got too ezmode, other similar environments. Been gaming a long time and I just cant believe someone thought this type of game mode was a good idea.

On a side note, where are the in-game tools to promote/organize 12 man drop groups (or hell any size group)? Oh yea, there arn't any. At least not obvious ones, as I have yet to group with anyone or be invited to a group in this game. Not a user friendly experience.

Faction Chat
LFG
Teamspeak
In-game VoiP
and the Forums


That's 4 that are blatantly obvious, and available.

Get on Teamspeak. Seriously, I just logged off the Comstar TS3 server at 6:57 PM PDT. There were at least 100 players online, and almost all of them were in groups.

Now you said you attempted to organize, and instead got joke players. Now you understand what we're talking about. Players like that ruin the game for everyone, don't they.

I'm not burying my head in the sand, I'm telling you the reality of it. There are players in this game who would rather lose every match, than try any semblance of teamwork, and keep on blaming the system for their own ****** behavior. Now you're beginning to see some of our own frustrations.

The biggest problem in this game, and not just CW is this solo rambo mentality. The tools are there, but there are those who stubbornly refuse to use them, and instead want CW to be a solo player game. We have the solo queue for that. CW is built around organized play. Especially group play.

This means that any players jumping in on their own (as I actually do for about 90% of my CW games.) need to organize, and need to get out of that solo only mentality. Like I said, when I drop on a faction's borders, I go visit their Teamspeak server, so I can coordinate with their players. I may drop solo, but I don't play solo. That's the difference.

You haven't been invited to drop with players and group up? I'm giving you an invitation now. We're both Davion, so this should be easy, I already gave you the address to the House Davion Teamspeak server (ts50.bargainvoice.com:7345), hop in, meet the players there, and group up with folks. You'll get a chance to coordinate. Find some solo players that were awesome, ask them if they want to join you on TS as well, and make your group bigger.

Comstar's NA server's address is na1.mech-connect.net, if you want to access a wider spectrum of players other than just Davions.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 01 January 2016 - 07:33 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Major Lag, on 01 January 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

It would be best to disallow PUGs in faction play. That way, the stubborn unit rams could waitwarrior until PGI shuts down the service pretty soon.

Our problem isn't pugs, or units. Especially not in a mode designed for groups. Our problem is players that jump into a mode that is completely dependent on teamwork, and organized play, and refusing to do either.

[Cath]

Iraqi, I get it. There are tools that have no introduction on how to use, require out of game software to use, and make it a severe pita for anyone to group up. This is stuff straight out of vanilla wow in terms of how its implemented. Lemme go run to the summoning stone k? LOL I hope you get my point. Its 2016, if the game wants to grow, its going to have to keep up.

In this day and age, the game itself should do quite a bit more than it does.

I'll go to the ts server, and I'll do those things because I actually got into a CW game where there was a 8 man on our side, a organized group on the other side, and we actually won. It SHOULD be much easier to form groups in game only. That was my entire point.

Edited by Cath, 01 January 2016 - 08:40 PM.

[Armando]

I would like to point out that CW now comes with a warning about the level of play involved in playing using the Community Warfare game mode. I would like to thank PGI for adding this! As much as I like to complain about PGI things have been getting better all be it at a VERY slow pace.

[IraqiWalker]

Cath, on 01 January 2016 - 08:40 PM, said:

Iraqi, I get it. There are tools that have no introduction on how to use, require out of game software to use, and make it a severe pita for anyone to group up. This is stuff straight out of vanilla wow in terms of how its implemented. Lemme go run to the summoning stone k? LOL I hope you get my point. Its 2016, if the game wants to grow, its going to have to keep up.

In this day and age, the game itself should do quite a bit more than it does.

I'll go to the ts server, and I'll do those things because I actually got into a CW game where there was a 8 man on our side, a organized group on the other side, and we actually won. It SHOULD be much easier to form groups in game only. That was my entire point.

I get your point, but I have to ask, how on earth is Faction chat, in-game VoiP, Forums, or LFG difficult or un-intuitive to use? These are tools available in virtually every multiplayer game out there. features like VoiP have been in videogames since the late 90s

[nehebkau]

lol! Is this thread going to live as long as the daily whine?

[Armando]

IraqiWalker, on 02 January 2016 - 08:17 PM, said:

I get your point, but I have to ask, how on earth is Faction chat, in-game VoiP, Forums, or LFG difficult or un-intuitive to use? These are tools available in virtually every multiplayer game out there. features like VoiP have been in videogames since the late 90s

This question is more than fair, and I will respond...
______________________
Faction chat: Can't see or use it from many screens (including the mech lab). No "In-Game Looking for Unit" option.

- alternatively: a damn sight better than the NOTHING that was available to players for the majority of the time the game has been out.

______________________
In-game VoiP: Out of the box the sound is shiat (can be tuned to correct, but far from intuitive). Also, unlike TS3 you can not see a list different rooms (visualize who is dropping as a team, and who's on what team).

- alternatively: a damn sight better than the NOTHING that was available to players for the majority of the time the game has been out.

______________________
Forums: Not 'in game'. Since everyone doesn't have 2 screens this can be problematic. (as true today as it has always been).

- alternatively: Exceptions aside...I like the vast majority of the MWO forum users I have interacted with over the years.

______________________
LFG: Again, Faction / Unit / Team chat not available from many screens. Also, unlike TS3 you can't see rooms of groups (visualize who is in what group), subsequently that also means players can't join a group room and wait for a spot to open up when someone leaves.

- alternatively: a damn sight better than the NOTHING that was available to players for the majority of the time the game has been out.

______________________
The game has been slowly getting better for a while now, but still has a long, Long, LONG way to go IMO.

As an example, the Mech Academy is a major step in the right direction (in game tutorials) IMHO. I would like to see an in game tutorial on mech load-outs / builds (best practices) for new (newer) players (some vets might benefit from this too).

Thank you for reading.

Edited by Armando, 03 January 2016 - 02:03 AM.