1017 replies to this topic

[Prussian Havoc]

It has been a few months since you OP...

Do you still maintain that only 12-man Teams should game in Community Warfare?

You do realize your 12-man Team and a handful of others would rattle around like so many beans in a coffee tin, unable to find a match on the world's you want, Ghost Drop after Ghost Drop after Ghost Drop - right?

[NextGame]

solos shouldnt be excluded, but they should shut up and stop whining when they get creamed after dropping against a unit

[Gremlich Johns]

Guys, MWO is still in Beta, they'll get it right....

[Armando]

Prussian Havoc, on 03 January 2016 - 03:31 AM, said:

It has been a few months since you OP...

Do you still maintain that only 12-man Teams should game in Community Warfare?

You do realize your 12-man Team and a handful of others would rattle around like so many beans in a coffee tin, unable to find a match on the world's you want, Ghost Drop after Ghost Drop after Ghost Drop - right?

How about you read past the first post and answer your own question. I mean, I 'could' type it all again or you could read the thread. I will opt for 'why don't you read the thread and answer your own question'.

[Cath]

Armando, on 03 January 2016 - 01:35 AM, said:

This question is more than fair, and I will respond...
______________________
Faction chat: Can't see or use it from many screens (including the mech lab). No "In-Game Looking for Unit" option.

- alternatively: a damn sight better than the NOTHING that was available to players for the majority of the time the game has been out.

______________________
In-game VoiP: Out of the box the sound is shiat (can be tuned to correct, but far from intuitive). Also, unlike TS3 you can not see a list different rooms (visualize who is dropping as a team, and who's on what team).

- alternatively: a damn sight better than the NOTHING that was available to players for the majority of the time the game has been out.

______________________
Forums: Not 'in game'. Since everyone doesn't have 2 screens this can be problematic. (as true today as it has always been).

- alternatively: Exceptions aside...I like the vast majority of the MWO forum users I have interacted with over the years.

______________________
LFG: Again, Faction / Unit / Team chat not available from many screens. Also, unlike TS3 you can't see rooms of groups (visualize who is in what group), subsequently that also means players can't join a group room and wait for a spot to open up when someone leaves.

- alternatively: a damn sight better than the NOTHING that was available to players for the majority of the time the game has been out.

______________________
The game has been slowly getting better for a while now, but still has a long, Long, LONG way to go IMO.

As an example, the Mech Academy is a major step in the right direction (in game tutorials) IMHO. I would like to see an in game tutorial on mech load-outs / builds (best practices) for new (newer) players (some vets might benefit from this too).

Thank you for reading.

thanks Armando, you read my mind there.

Btw iraqi, I have been dropping in groups for a couple days, had some ok games, some not so stellar. The bottom line is grouping isn't easy, or intuitive. This game doesn't even have a PM system for gods sake, even for people on your friends list?!?. What year is this again?

The "tools" (and I use the term very loosely here) are sub-optimal at best and actively hinder players at worst, mostly due to how complicated they are.

Edited by Cath, 03 January 2016 - 10:24 PM.

[Major Lag]

nvm.

Edited by Major Lag, 08 November 2016 - 03:06 PM.

[Armando]

Major Lag, on 04 January 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

Regardless of what I might have said in the past, I fully support the notion of solo's not being allowed into Faction Play any more.

After dropping solo for half the day, there's roughly 75% drops were 4+ solo's who don't have the slightest idea of what to do just blindly run into the enemy, through the gates and are (of course and deservedly) instantly focused down. People who actually want to work together as a kind of adhoc team are left with a heft numerical disadvantage of 8-12 per wave which is hardly doable. So, solos do not only have no fun themselves, by leroying they also ruin the fun of their teammates who face a lost battle.

This must stop. Bar Faction Play for people who have:
- joined a unit
- their own 4 mechs (regardless, but they must own them)
- have played at least 250 matches of regular queue
- passed a tutorial, where they have to show, that they can comprehend more than "shoot the red dorrito" but also adhere to basic objectives like "Most kills AND Omega".

Thank you.


Yeah, the day Star Citizen ships.

Contrary to my OP, I really don't want to keep anyone from playing any game mode...what I DO WANT is that PGI makes SURE that any person playing is ready to play the mode they are trying to play. In the case of CW there are many 'solo' pilots who are ready, willing, and able to play as a 'team', but there are just as many who are NOT.

What I want is for PGI to give new / low tier players the tools / resources they need to be ready for CW. Since my OP on this subject, PGI has taken steps to make this happen (now there is at least a warning about the 'level of play' involved with CW...which is a step in the right direction IMO).

That said, PGI can (and should) do more...

...Make finding / joining a unit "In Game" easy, and most of all 'rewarding'.
..."In Game" training on 'team play' (how to form a fire line, how to push as a group, etc).
...Have a base line level of mech quality before a pilot can queue for CW (trial mechs are fine when you are starting off in the public queue, but are entirely unacceptable for CW drops IMO).

TL:DR - PGI sets up new / low tier pilots for failure in CW by NOT having 'base minimums' in place (No different than Blizzard letting Level 1 WoW payers into level 60 raids).

Major Lag, on 04 January 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

Yeah, the day Star Citizen ships.

I'm $5K+ deep in that game too.

Edited by Armando, 04 January 2016 - 10:41 AM.

[Sandpit]

IraqiWalker, on 02 January 2016 - 08:17 PM, said:

I get your point, but I have to ask, how on earth is Faction chat, in-game VoiP, Forums, or LFG difficult or un-intuitive to use? These are tools available in virtually every multiplayer game out there. features like VoiP have been in videogames since the late 90s

shoulda woulda coulda
doesn't change what we have. There are very easy to use tools available in the game. The time for excuses as to why you can't or don't communicate with your team and/or work with your team are over.

The ones still refusing to do it are never going to, they don't care about it, they aren't going to have much fun, but that's not the community, PGI, or MWO's fault, it's theirs.

Dont' come to a multiplayer, online, team oriented game if you dont' want to play an online, multiplayer, team oriented game.

Dont' come in and talk about "I'd rather play a different type of game so make this game more like that", which is exactly the type of player that's really being discussed in regards to "rambo" style players who just derp out doing there own thing.

I don't run into many of them in CW thankfully

[Sandpit]

Cath, on 03 January 2016 - 10:20 PM, said:

The bottom line is grouping isn't easy, or intuitive. This game doesn't even have a PM system for gods sake, even for people on your friends list?!?. What year is this again?

The "tools" (and I use the term very loosely here) are sub-optimal at best and actively hinder players at worst, mostly due to how complicated they are.

Clicking "Join LFG" isn't intuitive?
Clicking in faction chat and talking to the other members in CW in your faction isn't intuitive?
Clicking a push to talk button for VOIP isn't intuitive?

I'll agree wholeheartedly that understanding how CW map, matches, match finding, defending, etc. is very difficult for new players to understand, but that's got nothing to do with the tools available for use.

I don't know how to make those tools any more "intuitive". They're automatically there, all you have to do is click in a chat box and type.

[Armando]

Sandpit, on 04 January 2016 - 10:41 AM, said:

Clicking "Join LFG" isn't intuitive?
Clicking in faction chat and talking to the other members in CW in your faction isn't intuitive?
Clicking a push to talk button for VOIP isn't intuitive?

I'll agree wholeheartedly that understanding how CW map, matches, match finding, defending, etc. is very difficult for new players to understand, but that's got nothing to do with the tools available for use.

I don't know how to make those tools any more "intuitive". They're automatically there, all you have to do is click in a chat box and type.

LFG is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, but I still lacks even basic functionality that TS3 allows for such as, but not limited to...
...LFG does not let a pilot see what individual players are playing for their current Faction.
...LFG does not let a pilot see what groups are playing for their current Faction.
...LFG does not let a pilot join a room in a group that is already full, and wait for a spot to open up.
...LFG does not work in the Mech Lab
...LFG does not work in the Skills Lab.

...Faction Chat lets you send / see blanket messages but does nothing to tell you WHO is online.
...Faction Chat does not let you send a PM.
...Faction Chat does not work in the Mech Lab
...Faction Chat does not work in the Skills Lab.

...VOIP only works IN the drop, and does nothing to coordinate teams in between matches.
...VOIP does nothing to help a person find a unit.
...VIP is clunky, and sounds like shait unless you spend time configuring it via counter-intuitive interface (can you use it out of the box....yes, but most of the time no one can understand a word you are saying, and hearing what others are saying is problematic at best).

Again, let me say that these tools are better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick (and it is better to have them in their current state then not have them at all), but hardly a viable solution to the real issues of finding / communicating with teammates. You know, all those things that the 'damn dirty mercs' have that new players / low tier players / straight up scrubs don't.

Believe it or not, these things make a MAJOR difference to the 'in game experience'

Edited by Armando, 04 January 2016 - 11:04 AM.

[Sandpit]

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

LFG is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, but I still lacks even basic functionality that TS3 allows for such as, but not limited to...
...LFG does not let a pilot see what individual players are playing for their current Faction.
...LFG does not let a pilot see what groups are playing for their current Faction.
...LFG does not let a pilot join a room in a group that is already full, and wait for a spot to open up.
...LFG does not work in the Mech Lab
...LFG does not work in the Skills Lab.

...Faction Chat lets you send / see blanket messages but does nothing to tell you WHO is online.
...Faction Chat does not let you send a PM.
...Faction Chat does not work in the Mech Lab
...Faction Chat does not work in the Skills Lab.

...VOIP only works IN the drop, and does nothing to coordinate teams in between matches.
...VOIP does nothing to help a person find a unit.
...VIP is clunky, and sounds like shait unless you spend time configuring it via counter-intuitive interface (can you use it out of the box....yes, but most of the time no one can understand a word you are saying, and hearing what others are saying is problematic at best).

Again, let me say that these tools are better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick (and it is better to have them in their current state then not have them at all), but hardly a viable solution to the real issues of finding / communicating with teammates. You know, all those things that the 'damn dirty mercs' have that new players / low tier players / straight up scrubs don't.

Believe it or not, these things make a MAJOR difference to the 'in game experience'

while I agree wholeheartedly that the tools need to improve, that's still not the basis of the post I responded to

The tools are easily accessible to every player in the game and they're not difficult to use. Some people in this world just go out of their way to make things more difficult than they need to be.

[Armando]

Sandpit, on 04 January 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

while I agree wholeheartedly that the tools need to improve, that's still not the basis of the post I responded to

The tools are easily accessible to every player in the game and they're not difficult to use. Some people in this world just go out of their way to make things more difficult than they need to be.

Please tell me about how easy the tools are to use while in the mech lab.
Please tell me about how easy the tools are to use while in the skills lab.
Please tell me how easy VOIP is to set up so that you can understand / be understood by others is.

Considering 2 of the 3 are not even a possibility means that the tools are NOT easy to use in game.

[Jon Gotham]

Armando I see your points and are mostly good ones. The trouble is though I don't think you get what the real issue is though.
It is very easy to read forums, it takes a few mins of looking in each faction's section.
It is also very easy to download TS and hop on each faction's TS.
Assuming the above steps have been done, the teamwork bit is made easier and the quality of gameplay is easier.
All of the above needs just one thing to work: the will to do it.

Now your points about the UI I can get 100% behind, we need something like the guild finder in WoW. where you could perhaps say:
Stefan's Maurauders:
Group Q
CW casual/competitive
Mon-wed and Fri-Sun
Must own four mechs
Any training wanted is provided

Something like that, the prospective recruit could then apply in game-maybe a short bio or something and off we go....

But the real issue in MWO is the players themselves. Every single person who refuses to group/talk/communicate/teamwork is the problem in a multiplayer team game. These same people then come onto the forums and complain about people that do use teamwork? Demanding the game be changed to a solo experience?
The list of excuses as to why they won't group/talk/communicate/teamwork is endless...of course SOME people have genuinely good reasons but you cannot build a game around outlier cases. that leaves us with the people who refuse and have a chip on their shoulder.
No amount of UI fixes or tutorials will fix poor attitude.
"I'll do what I want, and stuff everyone else"
Is the real problem here in MWO, what would you propose we do about that?

[Armando]

kamiko kross, on 04 January 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

what would you propose we do about that?

Simply put...nothing.

The players you describe are what I call 'lost causes'...no matter what we as a community do, and no matter what improvements PGI makes to the game the players YOU describe will not change.

The suggestions I have made will do NOTHING to help 'those players', that said, there are MANY new / low tier players my suggestions would be 'game changing' for. (massive improvement to players 'in game' experience IMO).

[Sandpit]

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

Please tell me about how easy the tools are to use while in the mech lab.
Please tell me about how easy the tools are to use while in the skills lab.
Please tell me how easy VOIP is to set up so that you can understand / be understood by others is.

Considering 2 of the 3 are not even a possibility means that the tools are NOT easy to use in game.

So your entire premise is "I can't use them while in mech lab and doing skills"
uhm
the very simple and easy work around?
Do your mechlab and skills before using the other comm tools that are there for drops, not hanging out while gimping around in the menus

Again, I've been a huge proponent of bonafide lobbies for years now, that doesn't change the fact that there are easy and readily available tools in game for players to use.

More players need ot take a little ownership of their account and game experience. Within 30 minutes and VERY little effort, a player can be in a lobby in game, using VOIP in drops, peruse the forums for information, etc.

The point is that now that tools are available players can either use them or not, it's their choice, but to actively refuse and choose not to use those tools and then complaining about it quite simply means, to me anyhow, I dont' take much of what they say seriously because it is just a matter of them complaining not that they don't have the tools but either they "don't wanna use them" or it's "too hard"

Either way? Take a little ownership in your own experience in the game and some reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally need to stop blaming, PGI, MWO, teams, new players, etc. for their poor experience when they actively choose to do their best to create the situation they're complaining about.

[Armando]

Sandpit, on 04 January 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:

So your entire premise is "I can't use them while in mech lab and doing skills"
uhm
the very simple and easy work around?
Do your mechlab and skills before using the other comm tools that are there for drops, not hanging out while gimping around in the menus

Again, I've been a huge proponent of bonafide lobbies for years now, that doesn't change the fact that there are easy and readily available tools in game for players to use.

More players need ot take a little ownership of their account and game experience. Within 30 minutes and VERY little effort, a player can be in a lobby in game, using VOIP in drops, peruse the forums for information, etc.

The point is that now that tools are available players can either use them or not, it's their choice, but to actively refuse and choose not to use those tools and then complaining about it quite simply means, to me anyhow, I dont' take much of what they say seriously because it is just a matter of them complaining not that they don't have the tools but either they "don't wanna use them" or it's "too hard"

Either way? Take a little ownership in your own experience in the game and some reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally need to stop blaming, PGI, MWO, teams, new players, etc. for their poor experience when they actively choose to do their best to create the situation they're complaining about.

There is nothing in this post that I disagree with. I am a HUGE advocate of taking responsibility for my personal gaming experience...The point I am trying to make is IMO players should not 'HAVE' to go outside the game, in order to play the game. (that is not the case with 'today's' MWO).

Edited by Armando, 04 January 2016 - 11:59 AM.

[Sandpit]

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

There is nothing in this post that I disagree with. I am a HUGE advocate of taking responsibility for my personal gaming experience...The point I am trying to make is IMO players should not 'HAVE' to go outside the game, in order to play the game. (that is not the case with 'today's' MWO).

It is the case though...
VOIP in game
Lobbies for CW in game

what would they need to go outside the game for?

Other than refining the tools a bit and offering much better documentation on how to use them, all the tools you need to find new friends, groups, create groups, invite to groups, chat in lobbies, etc. are in the game. There's nothing I can think of that you need to go outside of the game for as far as tools are concerned.

If you're talking about information and explanations of the tools and such, yes, PGI has always been bad about that, although the advent of the training academy shows me that they're moving in the right direction for this. PGI also stated that NPE wouldn't be a high priority until after they got more of the core stuff done.

Which, honestly is what they should do in my opinion, because the community wasn't in a stage over the past year to push into "new player territory" anyhow. Now with the steam launch and a new player influx I think you'll see them starting to spend a little more time in these areas.

[Armando]

Sandpit, on 04 January 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

what would they need to go outside the game for?

Anyone using TS3 is going to have a much better 'in game' experience than those using 'In Game VOIP', examples of the improvements (reason to go outside the game) are at LEAST...

TS3 users can see all the players in TS3 (can't tell who else is using "In Game VOIP").
TS3 users can drop into a filled up room to wait for a spot to open (can't even SEE 'rooms of players' using "In Game VOIP").
TS3 users can talk to people on their team in between drops (unlike "In Game VOIP").
TS3 users talk to each other while in Mech Lab / Skills Lab (not an option using "In Game VOIP").

Not saying, just saying. /wink <3

[Sandpit]

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

Anyone using TS3 is going to have a much better 'in game' experience than those using 'In Game VOIP', examples of the improvements (reason to go outside the game) are at LEAST...

TS3 users can see all the players in TS3 (can't tell who else is using "In Game VOIP").
TS3 users can drop into a filled up room to wait for a spot to open (can't even SEE 'rooms of players' using "In Game VOIP").
TS3 users can talk to people on their team in between drops (unlike "In Game VOIP").
TS3 users talk to each other while in Mech Lab / Skills Lab (not an option using "In Game VOIP").

Not saying, just saying. /wink <3

We're talking social though, not gameplay.

The social tools need a looooooooooooooooooot of work, but the premise we were discussing earlier are people complaining about comm tools and such while in game.

I agree with one but not the other

[Khereg]

Armando, you're going to make 100 pages yet - I can feel it...