1017 replies to this topic

[Armando]

Lowridah, on 04 January 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:

OK so myself a returning vet to the game has sold my lot of IS mechs to begin collecting clan tech. However being so pricey I have one mech and fill other 3 with trials. This is temporary but by your logic I should not be able to participate in CW. Logic is lacking. Not sure how far this thread has progressed past the original few pages of lost suggestions but from what I was reading there was a lot of tears flowing. Yes alot of pugs dropping solo suck, but guess what, they would still suck if part of a unit. People don't become skilled by adding a tag to their name. They become skilled through trial and error, you should know this. I guarantee you weren't me all star when you first started CW. Guaranteed.

Short Answer: Using the situation you described....No, you should not be able to participate in CW. I will explain in detail below.

Sandpit, on 04 January 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

I'm still waiting for someone to give me on single example as to why I shouldn't be allowed to drop in CW as a solo player when I want to.

Letting New/Inexperienced (N/I) Players drop one, day one, in community warfare doesn't JUST set the N/I Player up to get DECIMATED (likely resulting in a rightfully / honestly 'negative' gaming experience)....because of the nature of the game mode, the player (through no fault of their own) has a cascading affect on the 11 other players on their team. That in turn has a cascading affect on the 12 other players on the OTHER team...the likely conclusion: a rightfully / honestly 'negative' gaming experience for 24 players.

Having that experience last for 4-9 minutes it takes during a public match is bad enough, it is exponentially worse in CW because the experience last exponentially longer.
_____________________________________

Truth is, I don't want to keep anyone (Solo or 12 Man Teams) out of Community Warfare (never did). What I do want...is for PGI to make finding a team (unit) to be an easy, fun, rewarding experience for every type of player (casual / competitive, clan / IS / Merc, NA / EU, etc).

I want the N/I Players to log into MWO and by no other means then 'playing the game' be able to find and join a unit (be it a Clan, a House, or as a Damned Dirty Merc), more importantly, I want PGI to give people a reason TO join a unit (Give units incentives/rewards to recruit / train pilots...Give pilots incentives/rewards for joining/staying with a unit).
_____________________________________

When I started playing it took me 5 long months of stupidity before I wised up and tried to find other people to play with (dumb, Dumb, DUMB Armando).

The 'grind' of a quest-chain involved in finding a unit for a 'new' player starts with

1) "Open Internet Explorer" (don't know about you guys but I came, and in my case paid, to play Mech Warrior, not Internet Warrior). The very fact that I have to "Open Internet Explorer" to play Mech Warrior is a serious 'red flag'.

2) Once you find your way to the MWO Website, the next quest is to find the recruitment section of the forums (this 'sounds' easy, but PGI has made it far more difficult then it needs to be).

3) Your quest continues when you have to navigate in and out of thread, after tread, after tread to try to determine (if you have the forethought to consider such things)...

what groups are causal,
what groups are competitive,
what groups play in NA time zone,
what groups play in EU time zone
what groups are active.
what groups are MIA

4) So you have found mwomercs.com...you found the forums...you found the recruitment section...you have traveled up and down, in and out of the the 'web' of recruitment threads and found one that 'sounds alright' to you, WOOT WOOT, but your quest is FAR from over.

Now you have to apply to the unit. after that....who the F knows???

Some units are 'on it' when it comes to keeping up with the recruitment thread, other units don't even log onto the game anymore. All a N/I Player can do is HOPE that the unit is still active with someone checking the recruitment thread to get back to you, IF they get back to them.

Hell, if PGI can't code "In Game", if that is 'too complicated' for them the least they could do is provide a decent UI on the website for units. It is sad when a game that doesn't exist (and will not exist for quite some time) has a better UI for such things...

https://robertsspace.../community/orgs

^^^has it's own link from the home page to get to the search in one click and everything^^^
__________________________________________________

Solo players gripes with organized units is legit (it is a problem).
Units gripes with "The Solo Mindset" is legit (it is a problem).

The best solution....bring them together. Do it by making finding, joining, participating in units a fun and rewarding experience that is so fun and so rewarding that to NOT participate in a unit would seem totally pointless.

What PGI has created (or more to the point HASN'T created) makes finding and joining a unit an absolute nightmare. To even TRY to find and join a unit with the current state of the game is an exercise in masochism, PGI can do better, the player base / backers DESERVE better.
__________________________________________________

If PGI could ever create such a thing (besides providing 'basic' and 'necessary' functionality to their game)....it would of course mean that solo players would never be allowed to drop in community warfare....because finding and joining a unit is SUCH a fun and rewarding experience that EVERY pilots whats to experience it (and there would be no such thing as "solo players").

I know, I know! Asking for PGI to make joining a team, playing on the team, and playing as a team... in a team based game... a easy, fun, and rewarding experience is asking for to much. I shouldn't, I shouldn't !!!

Thank you VERY much for reading (I know it was a book).

Edited by Armando, 04 January 2016 - 06:34 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

I agree that someone should have to hit some sort of threshold before they can drop in CW. I don't agree that dropping solo is the source of the problem, though.

*I* drop solo on occasion and, more often than not, even if there's a prebuilt in there, I end up calling match (so telling people the strategy, who to focus fire on, regroup, etc), and my win record in those situations is pretty good. So solo dropping isn't the problem.

People dropping in CW when they just started playing? That's a problem. CW maps are designed funnels and the fact that one side has to attack and the other defend only exacerbates that. If you aren't prepared for it, and you approach it like Quick Play, you're going to go through your four mechs in no time flat and end up hating the game.

That's not good for any of us.

PGI needs to make it a game threshold or kill threshold or some combination thereof: the Faction button unlocks after, say, 20 drops and 20 kills. Sure, they're still probably not ready, but they'll at least have an understanding of the game and figure out it's probably their skills that are borked and not the gameplay.

[Sandpit]

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 05:58 PM, said:

Short Answer: Using the situation you described....No, you should not be able to participate in CW. I will explain in detail below.

yes I should
I agree that new players should wait before CW.
Extend cadet bonus to 50 games
Can't drop CW until after you complete cadet period

Nowhere have I, or will I ever agree that I shouldnt' be allowed to drop (or anyone else for that matter) in CW simply because I am not in a premade group.

Your suggestion completely, totally, and utterly prevents any player who doesn't want to join a premade team from participating in CW.
Bad idea
period

Just about everything else you suggested I like

Edited by Sandpit, 04 January 2016 - 06:38 PM.

[nehebkau]

To sum up this thread:

Solo players should not be allowed in CW unless there is a need for solo players in which case they should be uber solo players and/or not solo players who are simply playing solo because a solo player is needed to play solo in a mode where solo players should not be allowed to solo unless soloing with an 11-man solo......


Han shot first.

[Armando]

Sandpit, on 04 January 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

yes I should
I agree that new players should wait before CW.
Extend cadet bonus to 50 games
Can't drop CW until after you complete cadet period

50 games??? DAMN that's rough. Your "floor' is a LOT higher than mine. All I would ask for would be 4 games. (providing the "cadet period" period includes completing 'basic training')

4 games, back, to back, to back, to back....a different mech chassis/variant each game, scoring at least 250 in each game.
You don't have to win.
You don't even have to get a kill.
Hell, you don't even hat to get an assist.
4 matches scoring at least 250 points, in 4 different mech, in a row....one time. THAT IS IT

That "achievement" executed in the public queue verifies that the pilot...

1) Has 4 different mechs to use in CW.
2) Is at least 'in theory' able to put up 1000 points across those 4 mechs during one CW match.

50 Games....really? Why do you have to ask so much from people Sandpit????? /wink

Edited by Armando, 04 January 2016 - 07:17 PM.

[MischiefSC]

nehebkau, on 04 January 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

To sum up this thread:

Solo players should not be allowed in CW unless there is a need for solo players in which case they should be uber solo players and/or not solo players who are simply playing solo because a solo player is needed to play solo in a mode where solo players should not be allowed to solo unless soloing with an 11-man solo......


Han shot first.

Yes he did, cuz **** Greedo. Snitches get stitches.

The rest of it is a bit silly. Anyone can play in CW. Just know it's a 12v12 game, teamwork wins and there is no matchmaker to let you hide from people who can beat you.

That simple.

[IvaMech]

CW atm really isnt much fun unless you are in a large group.
So you might as well remove Solo players and make it die faster because of having no one to play against and not being able to add an extra player for teams that have 11 .
I too waited for years for the fabled CW but we got this mode instead.

[Armando]

IraqiWalker, on 04 January 2016 - 04:35 PM, said:

That's not a valid complaint, since Faction chat is ONLY RELEVANT for CW drops. So once you're in the CW window, you can see it. If I am not dropping in CW, why should I be subjected to Faction chat?

Again, this doe not invalidate that Faction Chat is about as simple, and intuitive as it gets.



In-game VoIP is only for people in the match. If you're fiddling around in the Mechlab or somewhere other than the match, what do you need in-game VoIP for?

Plus, if you are dropping Solo (which is the target demographic of this discussion), who the hell are you talking to? Oh, and while you are in a match, VoIP connects you to your entire team, who else do you need to connect to?


If you're surfing the Forums mid match, you're already screwed. The forums are an asset for you to use when you want to learn what to do, and where to go, and how to get in touch with factions.


Unit and group chat are available literally from every window. Just click the Social button. I'll give you that you don't know who is queuing up for a planet, but again. If you are dropping solo, that's not what you need. However, once 12 players have queued up, and you have a drop, you can coordinate with that group. Now if you are looking for a specific group to play with, Faction chat can get that done, quite easily.




If you click on their name, you get 3 options :PM them, Invite them to a group, or block them.

Again, I don't see where the complexity lies, in a single click.

Only using what is in game please tell us what units are playing right now? - that is asking to much, lets skip it for now.
Only using what is in game please tell us what units are playing in your faction right now? - take your time, post screenshots.
Only using what is in game please tell us what pilots are playing in your faction right now?

This are not 'riddle of the sphinx' information I'm looking for here...I am talking about the B-A-S-I-C information required to quickly and easily create / find groups.
______________________________

While we are at it...tell me again how easy PGI makes it to find a unit.

Years away from releasing..... https://robertsspace.../community/orgs .....still has a better group finding interface than MWO, and you can be in....gasp....multiple groups at once. (OMFG MIND BLOWN)

The resources PGI has provided to their players to find / create groups is a joke, so much so they are getting punked / outclassed by developers that haven't even created a game yet.

Edited by Armando, 04 January 2016 - 07:47 PM.

[Sandpit]

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 07:13 PM, said:

50 games??? DAMN that's rough. Your "floor' is a LOT higher than mine. All I would ask for would be 4 games. (providing the "cadet period" period includes completing 'basic training')

4 games, back, to back, to back, to back....a different mech chassis/variant each game, scoring at least 250 in each game.
You don't have to win.
You don't even have to get a kill.
Hell, you don't even hat to get an assist.
4 matches scoring at least 250 points, in 4 different mech, in a row....one time. THAT IS IT

That "achievement" executed in the public queue verifies that the pilot...

1) Has 4 different mechs to use in CW.
2) Is at least 'in theory' able to put up 1000 points across those 4 mechs during one CW match.

50 Games....really? Why do you have to ask so much from people Sandpit????? /wink

50 games is about an hour of game time. I just don't see that as "rough"

[PerfectDuck]

Didn't bother to read 44 pages of posts but just wanted to say, I don't wish for people to be unable to do what they want to do.

I just wish that the common sense would spread faster, that dropping solo is a daft idea. Too many people aren't even sorry that they screw their team over.

[Sandpit]

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Only using what is in game please tell us what units are playing right now? - that is asking to much, lets skip it for now.
Only using what is in game please tell us what units are playing in your faction right now? - take your time, post screenshots.
Only using what is in game please tell us what pilots are playing in your faction right now?

This are not 'riddle of the sphinx' information I'm looking for here...I am talking about the B-A-S-I-C information required to quickly and easily create / find groups.
______________________________

While we are at it...tell me again how easy PGI makes it to find a unit.

Years away from releasing..... https://robertsspace.../community/orgs .....still has a better group finding interface than MWO, and you can be in....gasp....multiple groups at once. (OMFG MIND BLOWN)

The resources PGI has provided to their players to find / create groups is a joke, so much so they are getting punked / outclassed by developers that haven't even created a game yet.

I still fail to see how this has anything to do with allowing solo players into CW

[Armando]

Sandpit, on 04 January 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

I still fail to see how this has anything to do with allowing solo players into CW

Fair point,

The reason that people drop solo is because they of one of three things....

...TIME: Don't have time to search the interwebs, find, apply, respond to, and join a unit using the tools provided by PGI

...ENERGY: Don't have energy to search the interwebs, find, apply, respond to, and join a unit using the tools provided by PGI.

...EFFORT INVOLVED: The is absolutely NO REASON to join a unit...zero, zilch, na-da. Call it 'a lack of reward' if you will.

Finding / joining a group (unit) using the tools and resources provided by PGI is an exercise in masochism (the good news is 'players have absolutely no reason to do so).

To create a 'team based' game like MWO then failing to provide the tools and resources to create / recruit / join teams is sadistic IMO.
_______________________________________________

This has to do with "solo players in CW" because if PGI can make creating / recruiting / joining a group...easy...fun...and rewarding, you know an actual PART of the game, there will be no such thing as 'solo players' in CW anymore (because being in a unit is so easy, fun, and rewarding a pilot would be STUPID NOT TO).

Crazy talk....I know....CRAZY

Edited by Armando, 04 January 2016 - 08:09 PM.

[Sandpit]

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

Fair point,

The reason that people drop solo is because they of one of three things....

...TIME: Don't have time to search the interwebs, find, apply, respond to, and join a unit using the tools provided by PGI

...ENERGY: Don't have energy to search the interwebs, find, apply, respond to, and join a unit using the tools provided by PGI.

...EFFORT INVOLVED: The is absolutely NO REASON to join a unit...zero, zilch, na-da. Call it 'a lack of reward' if you will.

Finding / joining a group (unit) using the tools and resources provided by PGI is an exercise in masochism (the good news is 'players have absolutely no reason to do so).

To create a 'team based' game like MWO then failing to provide the tools and resources to create / recruit / join teams is sadistic IMO.
_______________________________________________

This has to do with "solo players in CW" because if PGI can make creating / recruiting / joining a group...easy...fun...and rewarding, you know an actual PART of the game, there will be no such thing as 'solo players' in CW anymore (because being in a unit is so easy, fun, and rewarding a pilot would be STUPID NOT TO).

Crazy talk....I know....CRAZY

Removing solo players has nothing to do with what you're really talking about though.

I think if you'd drop the whole "solo player" thing, you'd find a lot of people agree and would support what you're saying otherwise. I don't know if it was just click bait for your title, but your premise seems to be
Remove solo players from CW to encourage PGI to improve their social tools.

That's just..... well I don't see how that logic works out personally.

[Armando]

Sandpit, on 04 January 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

Remove solo players from CW to encourage PGI to improve their social tools.

The exact OPPOSITE OF THIS is the point I'm trying to make.

I want to encourage PGI to improve BOTH their 'training tools' (add team based concepts to Mech Academy) AND their social tools (make finding / joining groups / units an easy, fun, and REWARDING experience)...

... with a result of ...

.. "all solo play being removed from CW"...

...BECAUSE - WOH - Everybody is not ONLY IN A GROUP, but HAPPY about it (Reward the behavior so that to NOT behave that way is clearly silly / stupid).

___________________

Lose a game in a 12 man....extra 1,000,000 C-Bills.
Win a game in a 12 man....extra 3,000,000 C-Bills.

Make the Rewards good enough, EVERYONE will play in a group.

Of course this only works if finding a group is easy (takes little/no time, energy, or effort).

Edited by Armando, 04 January 2016 - 08:31 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Only using what is in game please tell us what units are playing right now? - that is asking to much, lets skip it for now.

Faction Chat

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Only using what is in game please tell us what units are playing in your faction right now? - take your time, post screenshots.

Faction Chat

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Only using what is in game please tell us what pilots are playing in your faction right now?

Faction Chat

This isn't complicated people. Really. Just use the actual tools. I can even get you not only which planets they're attacking, but how many of a unit are attacking said planet. All you have to do is ask a question IN FACTION CHAT.

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

While we are at it...tell me again how easy PGI makes it to find a unit.

Considering that all you need to do is either ask in Faction Chat, or come to the forums, and find no less than 10 subforums dedicated to units. It's pretty straight forward.

[Major Lag]

nvm.

Edited by Major Lag, 08 November 2016 - 03:05 PM.

[Prussian Havoc]

Armando, on 03 January 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

How about you read past the first post and answer your own question. I mean, I 'could' type it all again or you could read the thread. I will opt for 'why don't you read the thread and answer your own question'.

I had thought not.

Your idea would throttle Community Warfare, though i do admit your continued futile defense of your premise has attracted a lot of forum interest.

Such intolerance of Solo gamers is not supportable despite your best efforts.

[stocky0904]

Everybody can do what he wants to do, but...

Last night i dropped with a davion mixed bag on the kurita border. We were all on davion ts and had an experienced dc. Most of us were vets from different units but we also had some new players on board.

It really was a massacre. The kurita guys were almost all new (no unit, no patches). Sorry to say it but it had something of seal clubbing. It could have been worse for them because we gave them the chance to kill some of our mechs to get them some cbills but it was no challenge. I felt kind of sorry for them but it was their decision to drop again and again.

On the 5th match they had a guy from a good unit with them. This idiot disconnected even before the match during starting screen and left them alone. Did not see him come back. Really nice!

They finally gave up and our 6th drop was against a group like ours. We won again but both sides had fun this time.

Please if you are new to this game and/or not member of a unit or in a group on ts stay out of cw. For your own best.

ps: most of our drops were hold territory, We could not end those drops via objectives. we had to kill them all.

Edited by stocky0904, 05 January 2016 - 04:04 AM.

[Lupis Volk]

stocky0904, on 05 January 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

Everybody can do what he wants to do, but...

Last night i dropped with a davion mixed bag on the kurita border. We were all on davion ts and had an experienced dc. Most of us were vets from different units but we also had some new players on board.

It really was a massacre. The kurita guys were almost all new (no unit, no patches). Sorry to say it but it had something of seal clubbing. It could have been worse for them because we gave them the chance to kill some of our mechs to get them some cbills but it was no challenge. I felt kind of sorry for them but it was their decision to drop again and again.

On the 5th match they had a guy from a good unit with them. This idiot disconnected even before the match during starting screen and left them alone. Did not see him come back. Really nice!

They finally gave up and our 6th drop was against a group like ours. We won again but both sides had fun this time.

Please if you are new to this game and/or not member of a unit or in a group on ts stay out of cw. For your own best.

ps: most of our drops were hold territory, We could not end those drops via objectives. we had to kill them all.

That's okay Davion (dogs). I've had some fun clubbing your seals in the past few days. seriously how can't they ignore a Locust in their base sniping them?

[Zibmo]

IraqiWalker, on 04 January 2016 - 11:32 PM, said:

Faction Chat


Faction Chat

Faction Chat

This isn't complicated people. Really. Just use the actual tools. I can even get you not only which planets they're attacking, but how many of a unit are attacking said planet. All you have to do is ask a question IN FACTION CHAT.



Considering that all you need to do is either ask in Faction Chat, or come to the forums, and find no less than 10 subforums dedicated to units. It's pretty straight forward.

Very glib. So, in order to use the ONLY tool in the game which would allow for recruitment as there is no global chat (that works even in the mechlab with anyone who happens to be out of a match), no lobby, no out of instance VOIP and no direct communication (whisper), no ability to persist a team other than joining a unit (I can't find another player, in the current game and offer to team up with him for other group drops) other than that in CW for faction - faction and drop chat. Which is where your ilk wants to prevent new players and solos from "infiltrating".

In short, there are no persistent communications tools, nor is there any social way to offer to join up in the game other than a friends list. And in order to see any chat from them, I get a flashing icon at the bottom of my screen (out of a battle) which commonly blinks for no apparent reason. Which I must click on, thereby making it such that I can do nothing else but go into "social" mode. And the friend request has no note attached to it so that I can even see what the hell someone wants to friend me for. I've gotten a couple of troll requests.

They were able to give me a reporting tool at the roster. They seem to not understand that it might be a good idea to add other tools to the menu as well. At a bare minimum, add a whisper component and extend chat to an on-screen overlay.

One more thing. Even if, as I have seen, someone puts a recruitment statement into the existing in-battle chat window, there is no way to scroll back up to see it. So, one is left with "can you post that again please". But by that time, the battle is on and typing is sparse. If the person who posted it is on my team, it is possible that, assuming he can or will use VOIP (instead of the Teamspeak server he's probably on) he might repeat it on voice. If he happens to be on the other team, it's unlikely he'll be able or willing to repeat it.

You can white knight. But you can't very well claim that the tools that are patently not there work well.