1017 replies to this topic

[Telmasa]

BSK, on 14 August 2015 - 06:48 AM, said:

Absolutely no. If you ever played chess against a computer, you might have seen an option how many moves you want it to think ahead. A non coordinated group will always think one-dimensional and even after a long training never exceed to think 2 moves ahead. Within a coordinated and comunicating group you start at 2 moves ahead and can go up to 6 moves.

Not needing to talk to each other does not mean non-coordinated. I'm talking about players who are good enough at the game that they do not need to speak in order to coordinate, because they already pay attention to what's going on - they look at the minimap, they look around, they check the health of their teammates periodically, they shoot the same targets they see their teammates shooting - all of that is quite easy to figure out without the use of comms.

In fact, using comms can often be a detriment - a distraction with too many chatty players, or calling out the wrong or misleading information, or a "caller" who either too paranoid or too loosely aggressive, and so on.

Suffice it to say my experiences without comms have been leaps and bounds better in CW than with them. This includes being in random-"solo player" teams that repeatedly stomped all over 12-man premades, over and over and over again - a fact many of you seem to be forgetting.

Sure, there were A FEW premade 12 man teams that were better. Some of them we still held our own against; others elected to push right into the spawncamp and we all know how that goes.

But the vast majority were not up to that level, at all.

I said it before, I will say it again: wearing unit tags and using teamspeak does not make you better at the game. There is no tangible difference between grouped players and solo players, none whatsoever. It comes down to the individual players in question.

MWO isn't chess, not yet anyway. For the kind of thing you're talking about, we need a huge overhaul of the maps currently available, to be larger, broader, and open-er than the DOTA lanes we have now, not to mention the balance overhaul involving so many other factors affecting current 'mainstream' tactics.

Like other players here have pointed out, 'success' in current CW doesn't take alot, at all.

At some future date, after the balance overhaul, after the map overhauls, will there be room for that? Probably; will that mean that coordinated teams of individually good players will have that much more precedence over randomly-arranged teams of individually good players? Absolutely - though I still maintain that at a high enough level, communication is mostly a moot point, that seems to typically be the 1%, so it won't apply to most players once the game is opened up to be in the hands of the players as opposed to the map designers.

Edited by Telmasa, 14 August 2015 - 08:29 AM.

[Armando]

Josef Koba, on 14 August 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

You're equivocating. In one comment you use 'solo' as it has been long accepted in MWO - that being a drop by one person who is not a part of an organized team made of of people who specifically formed that team for the purpose of dropping into matches.

Many people identify themselves as "Solo" players. My position is "If you think you are a solo player, act like a solo player, CALL YOURSELF A SOLO PLAYER, you are in fact a solo player."

For clarification I will refer to these players....the ones who identify themselves as "solo" players, then play the game AS a 'solo' player.....as the "Uninformed"

If you read the title of this post and or the OP and you said to yourself, I am a 'solo' player, or tell yourself that you drop 'solo'...if you identify yourself to others as a 'solo player'...you are the 'Uninformed'.

Josef Koba, on 14 August 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

Then you go on to say that there is no such thing as a solo player, which, if I recall, contradicts the points you made in the original post. You're just changing definitions of words to suit your particular argument at any given time.

I then go on to say that there is no solo mode in MWO. That every drop that any of us can participate in is 12 real, living, humans against 12 real, living humans. Let me stress this is NOT an opinion, this is how the game has been designed and is a FACT.

Josef Koba, on 14 August 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

Obviously, the the strictest definition, you're not 'solo.' Though sometimes in the 'solo' queue it sure feels like 12 individuals rather than a team.

In any case, you originally stated that solo players should not be allowed in CW. If we go by your most recent definitions in the post I partially quoted, there is no such thing as a solo player, ergo your original point is moot. In other words, since there are no solo players, all players should be allowed into CW because they're all part of a team, whether they drop with an organized group or by themselves.

This next bit, this next bit is confusing (I am not the best a written communication....if I am unclear, I do apologize).

There is no Solo Mode in MWO, no player has ever ever dropped 'solo'... YET... there are many, Many, MANY solo players 'aka Uninformed'.

______________________________________________

We have players who queue up with no teammates who KNOW they are part of a team, ACT like they are part of the team....they are PUGs (Pick-Up-Gal/Guy in a Pick-Up-Group). <<There are PUG players who are fracking DEADLY and they are benefit to any team that picks them up.>>

We have players who queue up with no teammates who THINK they are dropping solo, ACT like they are dropping solo.....they are SOLO players (the 'uninformed' if you will)

Please understand the both types exist. Also please understand that "PUG" players are not the real issue, but "SOLO" players (the uninformed)....they are why this game in general, and community warfare specifically, struggles.

________________________

"Uniformed" players should never be allowed to drop in Community Warfare. Before a player even has the option to queue for Community Warfare, they should KNOW that there is no such thing as a solo drop, they should have STOPPED identifying themselves as "solo" players, they should have the knowledge and ability to work WITH the team AS A MEMBER of the team.

Also, no trial mechs in CW...even though you CAN take trail mechs now...DON'T DO IT, PGI should ensure it is not an option SOON.

Hope that helps!!!

Edited by Armando, 14 August 2015 - 02:25 PM.

[Aresye]

MaxFool, on 13 August 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

That is just simply wrong. You just don't take bunch of skilled individuals, throw them together, and have them automatically work as coherent team. Especially not without the use of team speak.

What you can do, is to take a top team and have them play without TS, and expect them to play like a coherent team most of the time. A top team develops a culture of doing things in certain ways, and the only way to learn that culture is to spend hours in TS playing the game.

Actually, he's 100% correct, because the philosophy and tactics in competitive play is pretty much the exact same across every team, with minor variations in flavor (ex: each team has its own style). The principles of focus fire, prioritizing threats, and setting up firing lines is pretty much instinctual for the majority of good players out there.

If you took 6 random players from the top competitive teams and put them on the same team with 6 solo players against a full 12man, I absolutely GUARANTEE you that they will win. In fact, without even being on TS or VOIP, those 6 players would be effective against any 12man that's not at one of the higher tiers of competitive play.

Heck, just a single good 4man group can spell doom for a good majority of 12man teams out there.

[Armando]

Aresye Kerensky, on 14 August 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

Actually, he's 100% correct, because the philosophy and tactics in competitive play is pretty much the exact same across every team, with minor variations in flavor (ex: each team has its own style). The principles of focus fire, prioritizing threats, and setting up firing lines is pretty much instinctual for the majority of good players out there.

If you took 6 random players from the top competitive teams and put them on the same team with 6 solo players against a full 12man, I absolutely GUARANTEE you that they will win. In fact, without even being on TS or VOIP, those 6 players would be effective against any 12man that's not at one of the higher tiers of competitive play.

Heck, just a single good 4man group can spell doom for a good majority of 12man teams out there.

I have lead more than one [-MS-] 12 man that has many [MS Reserve] players (people who are new to the unit, our tactics and playstyle) and LOST to a team that has 4-6 "Tier 1 players" + 6-8 random solo/pugs (solo and pug players ARE NOT the same).

Being on a team does not guarantee success....knowing how to play as a team, then doing it (play as a team) DOES increase your chances at being successful EXPONENTIALLY.

[MischiefSC]

Plays out in practice constantly in pug, group and CW queues.

having tags shared between people on a team doesn't make any difference.

It's a matter of willingness and ability (which is an outcome of practicing willingness enough) to play as a team. Focus fire, stick together, make firing lines, support your teammates, don't bring crap mechs.

Pugging in CW last night my team had a bunch of Awesomes and Grasshoppers - just reasonably well optimized ones piloted by good team players. Everyone kept in communication and stuck to a plan. It's not about peak meta, it's about being willing to build a non-crap mech to play and spending the time/effort/energy to learn to play as a team and pay attention to your team.

We're not talking about learning Greek or taking up the violin. Make mechs that don't suck, focus on playing with the team and learn those skills. You can learn those skills by pugging with people who don't suck and doing what they do. If you're really crazy, like over the top crazy, you can PM one of them and say 'I pug and I suck in CW. Can you help me not suck?' Pretty much every comp player I know who isn't a total and complete douchewaffle would be more than happy to help you out.

The big obstruction seems to be getting past the false belief that 'playing how I feel is fun (and sucking)' is some grand moral stance. It's not. It's utterly selfish and generally an excuse for not trying to be better. Winning is fun and winning in a well built mech is more fun than losing in a bad one. You can make good SRM boats and AC+srm mechs and even good LRM mechs (though that still makes you a bad person ) but you have to take the time to learn what and how that is and how to play them to be good.

Because, to be clear - sucking at a team game (which even pug queue is) and taking pride in sucking is screwing the 11 people you drop with every single match, ensuring they all make less cbills and xp, especially if it's because you don't want to be bothered to invest the slightly-more-effort-than-pouring-a-glass-of-water work into learning not to suck.

It's either a will issue or a skill issue. A skill issue is fixed with good practice (practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect) while a will issue can't be fixed. Even Shia LaBeouf could do it.

[Armando]

@ MischiefSC

Thank you for saying almost everything I was trying to say, much better than I was able to say it (Especially in my OP). Add to it that I think PGI should have made getting players mindset to the place you just described a much easier process along with removing the option of taking trial mechs into CW, put a bow on it, and we are ready for Christmas.

Edited by Armando, 14 August 2015 - 02:08 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Armando, on 14 August 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

@ MischiefSC

Thank you for saying almost everything I was trying to say, much better than I was able to say it (Especially in my OP). Add to it that I think PGI should have made getting players mindset to the place you just described a much easier process along with removing the option of taking trial mechs into CW, put a bow on it, and we are ready for Christmas.

What we need is a PvE training environment/tutorial and a some coop stuff - this would more easily let people group up to grind some simple PvE coop matches to help people optimize mechs and builds as well as some basic tactical stuff.

We need some process for onboarding new players into the game and existing players into CW that's less awkward and cumbersome.

[Vlad Ward]

As much as I would love PvE content, I think it's more likely to exacerbate the mech optimization issue rather than solve it. Bots aren't all going to be using thunderwubs and timbercrows.

PvP may be a harsh mistress, but it will teach you what works and what doesn't work faster than anything else in the world. Anyone who still insists on driving Cents and Commandos is doing it to be edgy (because using good mechs = meta humping = selling out = taking it in the butt from the man = letting those esport tryhard millennials win, etc), and not because they think they're competitive.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 14 August 2015 - 04:17 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Vlad Ward, on 14 August 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

As much as I would love PvE content, I think it's more likely to exacerbate the mech optimization issue rather than solve it. Bots aren't all going to be using thunderwubs and timbercrows.

PvP may be a harsh mistress, but it will teach you what works and what doesn't work faster than anything else in the world. Anyone who still insists on driving Cents and Commandos is doing it to be edgy (because using good mechs = meta humping = selling out = taking it in the butt from the man = letting those esport tryhard millennials win, etc), and not because they think they're competitive.

PvE should be full on meta mechs and they should play at comp-tier and they should face **** people who are unwilling to adapt. I could design a PvE environment that would make people call CW the easy mode.

[Armando]

MischiefSC, on 14 August 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

PvE should be full on meta mechs and they should play at comp-tier and they should face **** people who are unwilling to adapt. I could design a PvE environment that would make people call CW the easy mode.

What you say is by no means a stretch of the imagination....as it sits now, the turrets / drop ships are already 5x better than the average player.

[MischiefSC]

Armando, on 14 August 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

What you say is by no means a stretch of the imagination....as it sits now, the turrets / drop ships are already 5x better than the average player.

The problem with making mobs isn't making them hard - it's making them beatable. You can make them 100% accurate and always know where the player is, you can make them always flank to blindsides, etc. etc. It's making them beatable while still challenging that's the issue.

Seriously, we need to make PvE insanely hard and they need to run meta almost all the time.

[Vlad Ward]

I've always thought that the most entertaining approach would be to make things like dropships and static defenses (PvE, CW, or otherwise) have OP canon weapon loadouts (or Calliopes for turrets, even though the TT buffs will probably say they're not canon) but just really crappy accuracy, so they'd be firing stupid numbers of PPCs, ACs, and Gauss slugs all over the place and the ground would just be exploding all around you and if you stand out in the open long enough you'd eventually get kerploded.

Pinpoint streak-lasers that only fail to 1-shot you because they pick a random component to hit each time are just boring in comparison. Also, the sound effects would be way way cooler.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 14 August 2015 - 06:52 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Armando, on 09 August 2015 - 12:01 AM, said:

PGI lied to me...

I was told there was going to be community warfare, and it doesn't exist. Not when the game was released, not last week, not today, has NEVER happened.

What PGI laughably CALLS Community Warfare is really just a solo que where players get to drop in 4 mechs. I was TOLD that I was going to get a COMMUNITY of players, working together as a faction / mercenary units to fight against. I call BULLSH!T !!!!!

All I see, match after match, after match, after match is solo players in trials who can't break 100 damage using 4 mechs.

This brings be to the Topic Title:

SOLO PLAYERS SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO QUE FOR COMMUNITY WARFARE.

To say "A Solo Player participated in Community Warfare" is a text book example of an oxymoronic statement.

FACT: Solo players have a que to fight against other solo players already.
FACT: There is no game mode for only 12 man groups. (What COMMUNITY warfare should have been).

As long as a solo player can que for a 'community warfare' drop, there is no community warfare. PGI farked over every community of players (every unit in the game) by allowing solo players the OPTION to que for community warfare. PGI farked over every solo player in game by giving them a chance to que without a unit (If can do it, you should be able to...not solo players fault for attacking/defending solo....it should have never been an option).

TL:DR - Community Warfare should not be an option for solo players, No unit, no que option. Give solo players are REASON to join a 'community' (aka: Faction and or Unit) and play as a member of a GROUP. Fix community warfare....solo players have their que, 2-11 players have their ques, 12 mans should have our community warfare.

Thank you for your time.

- Armando

You still described a community but your point still stands.

The problem is there was a good and healthy community at first. but then after a month all the unit elitists scared away and cursed and foul mouthed away all the lonewolfs, smaller merc units, majority of clan players and loyalist units. etc.

Now you got a bunch of 100+ units running around attacking nearly deserted planets with the occasional pug swarm who thinks maybe PGI finally fixed CW but alas come to a sour answer.


In all honesty- I think CW at the current momment should limit people in 4 man groups, that way you still get the co ordination of grouping up with team mates without the part you abuse the game and magnify problems by 12. It is rather realistic as most merc units only drop in 4's because they can't afford dropships with higher capacity unless they are really successful (pay for second leopard dropship with unit coffers? max of 8 man group?)
Not only that but it would also allow smaller units to play the game (which is the main life blood of CW) and the lonewolfs (which is the main building blocks and filler of CW)

excluding part of the MW: O community from community warfare is the worst idea possible to make the community more involved in community warfare. It would be easier to simply make it solo players instead of group only, because people who play in groups can play in solo, but not all solo can play in groups.

[Vlad Ward]

People left individual Factions because forum blowhards chased them out with RP bullcrap about how they're the boss and everyone else should 'respect mah authoritay,' Cartman-style.

People left CW as a whole because they were losing more games than they were winning and losing kinda sucks.

Problem is, people weren't losing because of groups or elite units. They were losing because they're bad, and there's no elo filter in CW to keep them in their happy place.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 14 August 2015 - 07:22 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Nightshade24, on 14 August 2015 - 07:15 PM, said:

but not all solo can play in groups.

No, they CAN, they just don't want to, and want to force everyone else to play solo, because they can't be bothered to coordinate with others.

I honestly think that making CW solo only, is something that PGI should do. Simply because of how hilarious the results will be. I can guarantee right now, that either nothing changes, or real 12 v pug stomps happen, instead of the regular 99% of the time, when it's coordinated pugs vs. non coordinated pugs stomps.

[Nightshade24]

IraqiWalker, on 14 August 2015 - 07:23 PM, said:

No, they CAN, they just don't want to, and want to force everyone else to play solo, because they can't be bothered to coordinate with others.

I honestly think that making CW solo only, is something that PGI should do. Simply because of how hilarious the results will be. I can guarantee right now, that either nothing changes, or real 12 v pug stomps happen, instead of the regular 99% of the time, when it's coordinated pugs vs. non coordinated pugs stomps.

Just because someone is not playing in a group/unit doesn't mean they do not want to coordinate with others. and also there is a few barries that prevent people playing with others...

a) slow typing/ not practical at typing in game.
no mic
c) language barrier/ innability to say/pronounce/type in that language (but could understand it better, happens quite often with some people who know a few languages)
d) no friends on friends list
e) no friends that are the same faction on friends list (CW prevents different factions playing with each other- even though both are deffending)
f) no one wants to group up with you/ let you into there group (rather they do not know or like you, or there group is full, you got no mic, etc).
g) you taking long breaks between games and/or not reliably on at all times (ie earthquakes, duties and responsibilities, medical reasons, etc).
h) the only options you got with joining people is that people force you to take specifically these 4 mechs with specifically these builds are you are a scrub/ noob/ dead weight/ pug/ [not mlg/meta/cheese].


I've personally been in a few of these situations and it is sad to be rejected/ neglected at times but luckily MWO allows you to play solo and to co ordinate with what ever team you land on instead of a guy shouting over your shoulder that you suck and your build sucks because you picked a bad mech (and when you do get more kills/ damage over them the ysimply say it's luckily/ not consistent/ it's not about the damage it's about the kills or vice versa...)

I do quite often play CW solo (well awhile back) or in small groups and I had a blast back when this was the norm and 12 man pug stomping wasn't, this is easily popular back in the first weeks of CW or durring tukayiid event which attracked many solo players and- my guesstimation is that if it's 100% solo in CW, it will resault in far less pugstomps- and those that do occur is not 12 people in the most OP mech out there and magnify the problem/ brokeness by 12 or what ever but it is simply that the team actually co ordinated better and had to a degree a high skill.

[IraqiWalker]

Nightshade24, on 14 August 2015 - 07:42 PM, said:

Just because someone is not playing in a group/unit doesn't mean they do not want to coordinate with others. and also there is a few barries that prevent people playing with others...


I've personally been in a few of these situations and it is sad to be rejected/ neglected at times but luckily MWO allows you to play solo and to co ordinate with what ever team you land on instead of a guy shouting over your shoulder that you suck and your build sucks because you picked a bad mech (and when you do get more kills/ damage over them the ysimply say it's luckily/ not consistent/ it's not about the damage it's about the kills or vice versa...)

I do quite often play CW solo (well awhile back) or in small groups and I had a blast back when this was the norm and 12 man pug stomping wasn't, this is easily popular back in the first weeks of CW or durring tukayiid event which attracked many solo players and- my guesstimation is that if it's 100% solo in CW, it will resault in far less pugstomps- and those that do occur is not 12 people in the most OP mech out there and magnify the problem/ brokeness by 12 or what ever but it is simply that the team actually co ordinated better and had to a degree a high skill.

There's a difference between wanting to coordinate, and not coordinating. Getting your face caved in by your opponent, and then complaining. The latter is what 99% of all the complaining about CW is actually about. That's what I'm talking about.

Now let's go through that list you mentioned up there:

Quote

a) slow typing/ not practical at typing in game.

No need to type, use in game VOIP, or just follow orders.

Quote

no mic

Type, or follow orders.

Quote

c) language barrier/ innability to say/pronounce/type in that language (but could understand it better, happens quite often with some people who know a few languages)

Then just listen orders. You don't need to type anything beyond "hello" at the match start screen, or launch window before the drop begins

Quote

d) no friends on friends list

Faction chat, and the forums are full schedules for when a faction is active on CW (like Wednesday Night Warfare). You don't need friends for that.

Quote

e) no friends that are the same faction on friends list (CW prevents different factions playing with each other- even though both are deffending)

Either play with them in group queue. Switch factions, or keep playing with your faction.

Quote

f) no one wants to group up with you/ let you into there group (rather they do not know or like you, or there group is full, you got no mic, etc).

I can't find a single case where an entire faction didn't want a player to be on their side. So the like part is dang near impossible.

Group is full, is another issue. Sometimes we rotate people when we can't have 2 groups, I take a drop, and then sit one out to let the other guy jump in... etc. Even without mic, you can just listen to orders, as long as you are on the TS3 server, or the in-game VOIP orders.

Quote

g) you taking long breaks between games and/or not reliably on at all times (ie earthquakes, duties and responsibilities, medical reasons, etc).

You only need to be there for the one drop you are there. When you want to leave, you leave. 99% of groups are not competitive and don't require you to drill with them. Switch to Davion for a day, and hop on the TS3 server for WNW, and see how that works out. It's the same with all other factions.

Quote

h) the only options you got with joining people is that people force you to take specifically these 4 mechs with specifically these builds are you are a scrub/ noob/ dead weight/ pug/ [not mlg/meta/cheese].

Dump those people, and look for another unit. We've got hundreds of units, and I've seen all kinds of builds in CW.

[Uncle Totty]

MischiefSC, on 14 August 2015 - 06:43 PM, said:

The problem with making mobs isn't making them hard - it's making them beatable. You can make them 100% accurate and always know where the player is, you can make them always flank to blindsides, etc. etc. It's making them beatable while still challenging that's the issue.

Seriously, we need to make PvE insanely hard and they need to run meta almost all the time.

Hell no! Hell ******* no! I do NOT turn to PvE to once again be forced to use only the meta chees! Let me use mechs with FLAVOR damn it!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...27fae8606346759

Edited by Nathan K, 14 August 2015 - 08:22 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Nathan K, on 14 August 2015 - 08:11 PM, said:

Hell no! Hell ******* no! I do NOT turn to PvE to once again be forced to use only the meta chees! Let me use mechs with FLAVOR damn it!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...27fae8606346759

That is the flavor of failure.

It's really very simple - if you bring a mech that is, by design, going to perform inferior to another in pug queue that's great. Go nuts. Sure, you're screwing your team over but it's a pug match. Nobody expects much from a pug team. You bring that to CW though and you're being a selfish jackass. You're shafting the people who waited to drop with you as well as the faction you picked. You're actively and intentionally making the game worse for everyone on your team you're playing with.

That's not a 'good thing'. You can make a huge number of good builds, it doesn't have to be 4 cookie cutter meta mechs. Like I said before I had a great game with teammates in Hoppers and Awesomes. I had a Urbie in my drop deck. It just wasn't running a LBX with 1 ton of ammo and small lasers or whatever terrible equiv to the TW build you posted would be.

Meta isn't 'cheese'. What works is just that - what works. You don't equip your special forces military with WW2 era guns and anime-style worthless huge shoulder pauldron armor and make them drive a Ford Focus through the desert, because cutting edge military weapons technology and optimized armor and vehicles are just so 'meta cheese'.

The idea that screwing your team by taking badly designed robbits is somehow 'noble' or 'better' is not just absurd, it's selfish. Do it in pug queue if you need to and for giggles but it has no place in CW. Intentionally gimped enemy mechs in PvE for single player campaign stuff is great. That's all about the illusion that the player is actually better than 'average' and I get that. No problem with it. For training someone for CW though, yeah. Bots would need to be absolute cutting edge builds and designed to win. Otherwise you're just teaching people to keep being bad.

[Nightshade24]

IraqiWalker, on 14 August 2015 - 07:53 PM, said:

There's a difference between wanting to coordinate, and not coordinating. Getting your face caved in by your opponent, and then complaining. The latter is what 99% of all the complaining about CW is actually about. That's what I'm talking about.

Now let's go through that list you mentioned up there:


No need to type, use in game VOIP, or just follow orders.

Type, or follow orders.

Then just listen orders. You don't need to type anything beyond "hello" at the match start screen, or launch window before the drop begins

Faction chat, and the forums are full schedules for when a faction is active on CW (like Wednesday Night Warfare). You don't need friends for that.

Either play with them in group queue. Switch factions, or keep playing with your faction.

I can't find a single case where an entire faction didn't want a player to be on their side. So the like part is dang near impossible.

Group is full, is another issue. Sometimes we rotate people when we can't have 2 groups, I take a drop, and then sit one out to let the other guy jump in... etc. Even without mic, you can just listen to orders, as long as you are on the TS3 server, or the in-game VOIP orders.


You only need to be there for the one drop you are there. When you want to leave, you leave. 99% of groups are not competitive and don't require you to drill with them. Switch to Davion for a day, and hop on the TS3 server for WNW, and see how that works out. It's the same with all other factions.

Dump those people, and look for another unit. We've got hundreds of units, and I've seen all kinds of builds in CW.

some contradictory answers you gave there.

but I will focus only on some of them:

"you can listen and do not need to talk"- this only goes on for so far. The problem with this is most of the time people with the mics rarely talk to you or notice you, you disconnected? no one notices and you are waiting for a long time while they launch a game without you and play a game while you wait. or they didn't notice you DC mid game and you died quickly as they didn't know you were not around with them.
That or they fail to know where you are on the map and/or do not know if you need help or not. Overall you get neglected for not having a mic at least by the majority of grouped play with headsets and such. (happened to me in 15 different units between 2012 (late) to 2014 at most of the times I got no headset/ mic)
It is also harder to co ordinate some data such as your mech- taking a LRM boat and then an enemy comes in close? your group can't tell the difference between you winning the fight in an awesome brawler or a streak boat to a lil locust or you getting ****ed by it as you only got a pair of medium lasers to fend for yourself..

Of course a completely pugged game (such as pug only que for normal matches) do have a bit of a layer of obliviousness there- there are many times I have seen team mates go back for me/ vice versa just because they see there team mates health slowly dwindling away and a "low signal" ecm icon on there name. that and pugs tend to be more observant on what some people on there team have and work accordingly- at least at the elo I am at.



Also switching faction isn't really an option available to some people- especially if you are a loyalist. And some factions out there struggle to barely get 12 pugs together and get a match (at least in my time zone) let alone have an active unit in that area.



and for the dump those people- for a few of the smaller merc units and lonewolfs, those are the only people they can join up with as they are the active unit for that faction.


For the "only be there for that match" doesn't really work when after say the first grouped game you get and go away for a bit or mechlab, when you are able to play again you have to wait for those people (half hour or less) to get out of match, and due to CW length of time, quite a few groups that are playing disband over time. (by group I mean the actual group and not the unit and stuff)





Also I wouldn't mind joining house davion- it was my faction of preference in MW: O since day one, but I switched to the clans due to my unit and right now I have responsibilities for that part of the unit I only got jade falcon, ghost bear, and wolf as my possible aligned factions.