82 replies to this topic

[Poisoner]

When the people who need to most help have no idea what they are?

For example, those of you who lost in the mech lab.

[Jatix]

BECAUSE MY PULSE LASERS NEED TO BE THE ONLY BUILD

Says every bad (and current) player ever. In all honesty quirks killed customization. You never ever see a dragon that doesn't have 2 ac 5's. The specific quirks need to go, and be less strong. 50% er large just ruins the spider. Why use a large pulse, besides that you wanted to? It is just outright worse.

[Odinvolk]

Poisoner, on 09 August 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

What Is The Point Of Quirks

In BT/MW universe "weak" mechs exists due to very good reasons. In RP environment of real battletech not all factions are equal. Some have better tech, better resources. Weaker factions can field more of "bad" mechs, cheaper. This is reflected in costs, tonnage restrictions, in team points allocation, etc. These factors create balance for different play styles, but more importantly allows for interesting variety. E.g. "do I field an Atlas or a bunch of urban mechs"? "Am i going to go with 4 mech clan team or 5 mech IS?" "How quickly can i get these better mechs to the right planet, or is it better to ship a whole lot of cheap crap right now?".

MWO is far removed from the cannon and complexity of BT/MW. Anyone can field anything instantly, and there are no consequences in cost, or time, or size of your team. Which meant that only a few mechs were a viable option, and the rest should be avoided.

To compensate, MWO has quirks which on one hand lower customization options of better mechs, and also improve viability of bad mechs (but also kills customization).

I am personal very much against this approach, but things are what they are.

TL;DR Version:

Due to absence of game depth and resource management quirks are used to make good mechs worse and bad mechs better, e.g. to achieve "balance".

[Lyoto Machida]

PGI's way of lowering TTK?

[Savage Wolf]

Odinvolk, on 09 August 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

In BT/MW universe "weak" mechs exists due to very good reasons. In RP environment of real battletech not all factions are equal. Some have better tech, better resources. Weaker factions can field more of "bad" mechs, cheaper. This is reflected in costs, tonnage restrictions, in team points allocation, etc. These factors create balance for different play styles, but more importantly allows for interesting variety. E.g. "do I field an Atlas or a bunch of urban mechs"? "Am i going to go with 4 mech clan team or 5 mech IS?" "How quickly can i get these better mechs to the right planet, or is it better to ship a whole lot of cheap crap right now?".

MWO is far removed from the cannon and complexity of BT/MW. Anyone can field anything instantly, and there are no consequences in cost, or time, or size of your team. Which meant that only a few mechs were a viable option, and the rest should be avoided.

To compensate, MWO has quirks which on one hand lower customization options of better mechs, and also improve viability of bad mechs (but also kills customization).

I am personal very much against this approach, but things are what they are.

TL;DR Version:

Due to absence of game depth and resource management quirks are used to make good mechs worse and bad mechs better, e.g. to achieve "balance".

The point of bad mechs was that they were cheap, but yeah that only makes sense if you can lose your mechs or need to repair them. And such a system could possibly be created in CW if it was wastly expanded. I mean WASTLY. The amount of logistics and market mechanics that needs to be implemented and balanced are massive. And most importantly, the economy of CW needs to be totally separated from public queue.

But in public queue all mechs need to be viable in themselves. There is no way around that.

And also, Tier 1 mechs don't really have any quirks so they still have full customization. And also, doesn't seeing Dragons at all not mean more customization than no Dragons at all? All Dragons might be the same, but at least they are there to be one less Timber Wolf.

[Kiiyor]

If you can think of another way to make terrible, terrible mechs even slightly competitive, i'm all ears.

[Mcgral18]

Kiiyor, on 09 August 2015 - 06:43 PM, said:

If you can think of another way to make terrible, terrible mechs even slightly competitive, i'm all ears.

Make those Robots move with the same agility as Gundams 20 tons heavier?

[FupDup]

Mcgral18, on 09 August 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

Make those Robots move with the same agility as Gundams 20 tons heavier?

That's a quirk.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 09 August 2015 - 06:47 PM, said:

That's a quirk.

Nonsense, it's a Chassis Modifier than blanket changes the entire line of robots because of an outlier. Completely different to these "Quirks".

[Alistair Winter]

It's sad that Quirks have become so important to MWO that people have entirely forgotten how PGI used to modify core stats (e.g. engine cap, torso twist, arm movement, hardpoints, etc) to balance mechs, once upon a time.

And since the CPLT-K2 still has reduced torso twist, I guess PGI has forgotten about this too.

The funniest thing of all is the word 'quirks'. It implies minor, interesting characteristics that make each mech just a little bit different. It's a funny word to use for a mechanism that effectively doubles the firepower of many mechs.

[Xetelian]

Quote

quirk
kwərk/

noun
1.
a peculiar behavioral habit.
"his distaste for travel is an endearing quirk"
synonyms: idiosyncrasy, peculiarity, oddity, eccentricity, foible, whim, vagary, caprice, fancy, crotchet, habit, characteristic, trait, fad; informalhang-up
"they all know his quirks"
2.
ARCHITECTURE
an acute hollow between convex or other moldings.
verb
1.
(with reference to a person's mouth or eyebrow) move or twist suddenly, especially to express surprise or amusement.

The first thing that google gave me.

[Mcgral18]

Alistair Winter, on 09 August 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

It's sad that Quirks have become so important to MWO that people have entirely forgotten how PGI used to modify core stats (e.g. engine cap, torso twist, arm movement, hardpoints, etc) to balance mechs, once upon a time.

And since the CPLT-K2 still has reduced torso twist, I guess PGI has forgotten about this too.

The funniest thing of all is the word 'quirks'. It implies minor, interesting characteristics that make each mech just a little bit different. It's a funny word to use for a mechanism that effectively doubles the firepower of many mechs.

Triples, actually, in some cases. 50%+17%=67%

33% recycle

From 2x to 3x. Probably wasn't even intended.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Because people want outdated mechs to be as good as newer mechs coming off the production lines.

[Savage Wolf]

xXBagheeraXx, on 09 August 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

Because people want outdated mechs to be as good as newer mechs coming off the production lines.

Of course. Otherwise why even include old mechs in the game if they are irrelevant?

[Palor]

If they only would ditch all the specific weapon quirks that kill your building options. I don't mind a +10% laser range quirk, but a +10% SPL range quirk is annoying.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Vesta Beast, on 09 August 2015 - 05:44 PM, said:

BECAUSE MY PULSE LASERS NEED TO BE THE ONLY BUILD

Says every bad (and current) player ever. In all honesty quirks killed customization. You never ever see a dragon that doesn't have 2 ac 5's. The specific quirks need to go, and be less strong. 50% er large just ruins the spider. Why use a large pulse, besides that you wanted to? It is just outright worse.

I like my lrms. Sure theyre suboptimal but **** your comp builds.

I just had a guy tell me theyre a waste of space (on Alpine no less) when I went 4 kills 497 and he went no kills less than a hundred and told me I was bad because I dont do competitive roflmao

[Wintersdark]

I don't disagree that we shouldn't have massive weapon quirks, but really... What else is there to make Awesome's and Dragon's good? Note that even with HUGE quirks, they still aren't particularly good =/

[xXBagheeraXx]

Savage Wolf, on 09 August 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

Of course. Otherwise why even include old mechs in the game if they are irrelevant?

Because if you like the mech you will still drive it even if its not the biggest or the best. Atlases will never leave my hangar.

[Savage Wolf]

xXBagheeraXx, on 09 August 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

Because if you like the mech you will still drive it even if its not the biggest or the best. Atlases will never leave my hangar.

Yeah, that's the problem. Your Atlasses will stay in the hangar and you will be a burden to your team for picking them. And why waste development time on mechs that are not going to leave the hangers? I guess they could just model them, but not animate them because they are just pretty to look at. And really, what value does that have for new players?

No, MWO is an online shooter, so all choices should be made as viable as possible.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Quirks made Dragons and Awesomes glass cannons,before that they were pretty much just glass jars or jugs.
Thunderbolt quirks still are in sense overblown,atleast in the 5SS