230 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Dimento Graven, on 18 August 2015 - 08:42 AM, said:

<shrug> Again, I really think you're also being quite extreme.

If that point of view were followed to its logical conclusion we'd all be forced to use keyboards that supported only two simultaneous inputs, and two button, non-DPI configurable mice.

Unlike a macro program which may or may not have to be purchased, and may or may not be available for download, and which may require some moderate level of programming ability (or at the very least the ability to successfully cut and paste from a thread you had to have the ability to search for and find with the script already written), putting a coin in a keyboard is an option available to anyone and every one, it requires no specialized keyboard, programming knowledge, third party software, or anything else, other than an appropriately sized coin, and the ability to map TAG to an individual weapon group, and the minor dexterity required to pick the coin up and successfully putting it between the key and the keyboard chassis without poking your eye out in the process.

Given that TAG doesn't do any direct damage, nor obscure the targets view in anyway (unlike say scripting 6 AC's to fire sequentially, as fast possible, non-stop), getting all hysterical about it is simply foolish.

Cut it out.

Do you realize you have written so many exceptions to justify your use of what essentially is a hardware hack?

You also say using minor dexterity (a human attribute) and something readily available (i.e. a coin) to operate a hardware hack is ok, but using one's brains (also a human attribute) to write a macro (with software also readily available these days) to do the same thing is not. All at the same time PGI has explicitly stated that the use of macros is allowed, but makes no mention at all about the use of modified hardware.

I think I'll stop for a while and just get back later ... once I stop laughing at the hilarity of it all.

Edited by Mystere, 18 August 2015 - 08:57 AM.

[Yellonet]

DjPush, on 15 August 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

I know I am going to catch flack for this because macros are allowed in MWO. However, to me it is in the same catagory as a wall hack or aimbot. A program outside of MWO that allows players to play the game at a level not possible by any means other than a computer. A computer program is firing the weapon for you while all you do is hold the button down.

<snip>

Am I out of line with these feelings towards macros? I refuse to use them because I think it's fighting dirty. What do you guys think?

Yep, using macros is cheating IMO.

[Yellonet]

Kodyn, on 15 August 2015 - 10:04 PM, said:

You're not out of line, just incorrect.

They really convey no real advantage, as has been explained in countless threads, by countless people, countless times.

I'm not defending them because I use them, I don't, but I really couldn't care less if people do, because it just means they're too lazy to time things properly themselves, and in some cases, like gauss, are actually gimping themselves.

Just do a forum search on macros, read the threads, you'll have your answers. Zero need for a new thread on this.

Obviously not all macros create advantages, but some may well do just that.
One could easily imagine a macro that makes it impossible to overheat and that fires your weapons exactly as fast as you can to not overheat (could certainly be made to store different profiles for different mechs), no human could do that.
While the advantage may not be huge it's still an advantage that has nothing to do with player skill and that may well be the deciding factor in a fight.

In CSGO using macros is considered cheating and IMO it should be here too, especially with the ambition for e-sports in mind.

[kapusta11]

So you think that using macros for firing 3+3LL with 0.5 sec delay, for a total of 1.5 sec burn time, when piloting Stakler is cheating but firing 4xERML+2xLPL with 1.15 sec burn duration when piloting clan mech is ok?

[M4rtyr]

To be fair they can't be cheating if they are allowed but the devs.

But I've never liked them in any game... Get all these idiots talking about all the skill they have, but then everything is running through macros. So they really have no skill at all.

Dev;s shouldn't allow for the use of them, especially in this case when PGI wants to make an attempt at esports competitiveness, but thats a whole other laugh of its own right now.

Edited by M4rtyr, 18 August 2015 - 10:35 AM.

[Manei Domini Krigg]

TS is wrong.
And dakka macros is not most dangerous

DWF 2G+4ERLL alpha strike macro:
1 - weapon groups
group '3' - 2 gauss + 2 erll
group '4' - 2 erll
2 - write macro
0.00 sec push and hold '3'
0.51 sec push '4'
0.76 sec stop pushing '3'
3 - add this macro to one of mouse bottoms

build http://mwo.smurfy-ne...df5767cee3fe3d4
one bottom push = 74 alpha dmg with no ghost heat

wellcome to my world

P.S.: I USE ONLY LEGAL SOFT (razer synapse 2.0). You really want to deny all gaming keyboards and mouses?

Edited by Krigg, 18 August 2015 - 10:38 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Mystere, on 18 August 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

Do you realize you have written so many exceptions to justify your use of what essentially is a hardware hack?

You also say using minor dexterity (a human attribute) and something readily available (i.e. a coin) to operate a hardware hack is ok, but using one's brains (also a human attribute) to write a macro (with software also readily available these days) to do the same thing is not. All at the same time PGI has explicitly stated that the use of macros is allowed, but makes no mention at all about the use of modified hardware.

I think I'll stop for a while and just get back later ... once I stop laughing at the hilarity of it all.

First off let me try and be clear, I'm trying to be a 'centralist' on this issue.

I've stated the absolute bare facts about PGI's stance on this based on their posts on the matter.

I'm neither for or against using macros, BUT, to take the extremist viewpoint and claim that putting a penny in a keyboard to hold down a single key is at the exact same level of 'artificial intervention' as downloading/purchasing, installing, and programming a macro, well, you're being silly.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Hades Trooper, on 18 August 2015 - 05:55 AM, said:

A scrub? lol, right, cause i don't need a crutch i must be a scrub, keep flaming on your tears only sweeten my tea.

The only reasons why there allowed in PGI can't stop it, otherwise they would, you self inflated opinion that if you can you should only encourages idiots like yourself.

The fact you think 700 dmg average and 4.0 KDR means something shows you lack any understanding that there are factors that the game doesn't keep track of that prove a pilots worth.

Oh and whats that? i play joke builds and things for a lark as i have no concern over a KDR that no one can see bare me? yeah thats right i play for fun instead of taking a B- game as serious as you must win at all costs even at my own ability to play.

Why don't you write a macro to pilot the mech for you and just sit back and watch instead as your not really playing you using secondary programs to do the work for you, next you will say a wall hack isn't cheating as it doesn't do any damage, but hey

KEEP FLAMING ON

lmao so if they're better than you it's because:

They cheated

You were only using a joke build

Your stats don't matter.

Sure dude, any excuse you want.

[Mystere]

M4rtyr, on 18 August 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

To be fair they can't be cheating if they are allowed but the devs.

But I've never liked them in any game... Get all these idiots talking about all the skill they have, but then everything is running through macros. So they really have no skill at all.

Dev;s shouldn't allow for the use of them, especially in this case when PGI wants to make an attempt at esports competitiveness, but thats a whole other laugh of its own right now.

Think of pressing the keyboard keys as a lower level function. Then, consider the use of macros as reducing the time and effort a person spends performing such lower level functions. This means that by using macros, a person can now spend more time and effort performing higher level functions.

As such, by using his brain (i.e. higher level function), a Minbari of the Religious Caste can program his command console to perform complex starship maneuvers that a Minbari of the Warrior Caste has spent a lifetime training.

As the saying goes, play smarter, not harder. Macros allow a player to do just that.

Nightmare1, on 18 August 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

I don't think that macros are cheating, per se, but I do view them as a crutch.

You are so very wrong. See above.

Edited by Mystere, 18 August 2015 - 12:17 PM.

[Telmasa]

I agree that macros are pretty much cheats.

I realize that in many cases they really don't achieve a whole lot - but things that are still impossible with the human hand alone.

I think it's a tolerable cheat, though.

I also think the game mechanics should continue to be carefully tweaked to make sure that whatever a macro can do can't provide an advantage superior to actions possible with the human hand.

[SolCrusher]

Mystere, on 18 August 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

Think of pressing the keyboard keys as a lower level function. Then, consider the use of macros as reducing the time and effort a person spends performing such lower level functions. This means that by using macros, a person can now spend more time and effort performing higher level functions.

As such, by using his brain (i.e. higher level function), a Minbari of the Religious Caste can program his command console to perform complex starship maneuvers that a Minbari of the Warrior Caste has spent a lifetime training.

As the saying goes, play smarter, not harder. Macros allow a player to do just that.



You are so very wrong. See above.

I script all kind of things at work.....
Got server checks to do, yep script it
Got changes to thousands of clients, yep script it
Got mundane routine things that need to be done, script it

So I'm more interested in having fun in MWO and I don't find mashing buttons fun. Blowing other mechs up is fun so the couple hours to write scripts to make my fun factor go up is time well spent. I have scripted anything and everything for all of the MMOs I have played from EQ, WOW, DDO, and WHO.

This game has it's timing issues and scripting isn't perfect but I like staring down my opponents and not backing down till someone is liquid metal!

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Dimento Graven, on 17 August 2015 - 10:03 PM, said:

PGI has ruled that macros from keyboards and mice that support such is not cheating.

You can also edit the USER.CFG, anything they allow you to put in/modify in the USER.CFG is fair game.

Unless there was a SIGNIFICANT change to mechanic that I wasn't aware of:

NO, you cannot fire 4 gauss simultaneously.

YES, you can fire two different groups of dual gauss, independently separately.

right, RMB charge lmb Charge FIRE

Or rmb charge and lmb charge and fire lmb
fire rmb

like that.

Ive done the top one with two before

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 18 August 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

Think of pressing the keyboard keys as a lower level function. Then, consider the use of macros as reducing the time and effort a person spends performing such lower level functions. This means that by using macros, a person can now spend more time and effort performing higher level functions.

As such, by using his brain (i.e. higher level function), a Minbari of the Religious Caste can program his command console to perform complex starship maneuvers that a Minbari of the Warrior Caste has spent a lifetime training.

As the saying goes, play smarter, not harder. Macros allow a player to do just that.

[Hydrocarbon]

This is 1500 yrs in the future. I can see losing certain tech like heat-seeking warheads, electronic aiming w/windage & wind corrections, fin-stabilized "shells" (which atm can reach past 5000m), HEAT munitions, self-aiming turrets, cup holders, etc.

BUT TOGGLE SWITCHES???!?

You have a mech with gauss weapons, particle-pulse projectors, and a fusion reactor - why can't you have a tiny subroutine consisting of a few hundred bytes that will fire your weapons in volleys?? Hell, clan LRM's and autocannons fire shells in individual volleys, so why can't multiple weapon systems do the same?

When someone says "macroz OP cuz u need programming knowledge", I just laugh because they'd be the first to type "get skillz y0" or "carry harder!". Get off your game-playing butt and start teaching yourself! You just might learn something.

[Mycrus]

Dimento Graven, on 18 August 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:

First off let me try and be clear, I'm trying to be a 'centralist' on this issue.

I've stated the absolute bare facts about PGI's stance on this based on their posts on the matter.

I'm neither for or against using macros, BUT, to take the extremist viewpoint and claim that putting a penny in a keyboard to hold down a single key is at the exact same level of 'artificial intervention' as downloading/purchasing, installing, and programming a macro, well, you're being silly.

What about using user.cfg to remove the cockpit... is that cheating?

[PurpleNinja]

DjPush, on 15 August 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

A program outside of MWO that allows players to play the game at a level not possible by any means other than a computer.

Is this a troll thread?
I don't get it.

[Trev Firestorm]

Idealsuspect, on 18 August 2015 - 06:16 AM, said:

If PGI allow macro they should implement theirs own macro system for everybody could be able to use it....

Instead this, they say macro software is allowed cause they can verifi, punich or bann people who use AND they don't implement theirs own macro system for thies own reasons maybe lack time/money, programming skill or motivation to offer same game for everybody .. idk.

Macro isn't cheat coze it's allowed and we can do this with fingers and keyboard ok also why use macro ? :=)

I agree macros are not cheating and have for a long time yet do not use them myself because I'd rather not gimp myself by giving up manual control, why is this so hard to understand? Its a built in part of modern mouse/keyboard software... hell my G700 has wireless mode and needs its profiles to be synced into the mouse itself so the macro is actually part of the hardware.

[L3mming2]

Yellonet, on 18 August 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

Obviously not all macros create advantages, but some may well do just that.
One could easily imagine a macro that makes it impossible to overheat and that fires your weapons exactly as fast as you can to not overheat (could certainly be made to store different profiles for different mechs), no human could do that.
While the advantage may not be huge it's still an advantage that has nothing to do with player skill and that may well be the deciding factor in a fight.

In CSGO using macros is considered cheating and IMO it should be here too, especially with the ambition for e-sports in mind.

not posible unles you make a macro for every different mech and for that mech a different one for every map (t difrence..) and if u lose DHS.. so no, this a macro cant do

[Chuck Jager]

Good players look for every advantage they can get. As a southerner from the US we still remember Sherman burning Atlanta.

If PGI says they are a hack then they are. Until then please do not be on my team in a stock mech. I mean it.

[Dimento Graven]

Mycrus, on 18 August 2015 - 09:20 PM, said:

What about using user.cfg to remove the cockpit... is that cheating?

Well now you're being stupid.

That's a question you already know the answer to and therefore a stupid question, BUT, just to give you the official PGI stance on that specific matter, ONE MORE F'ING TIME, here you go:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3108225

This is the post where I ask the specific question:

Quote

Can we use this USER.CFG change to remove the cockpit?

And the official response from Kyle Polulak was:

Quote

Yes, it's in user.cfg afterall.

Are you done with this stupid question yet?

Edited by Dimento Graven, 18 August 2015 - 11:09 PM.