230 replies to this topic

[Burktross]

Meh, the only macro I've ever used is voice macros for fun, but I've never had any problems with macro users.

[Escef]

Fate 6, on 16 August 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

I can run the game at 60fps, am I a cheater compared to someone who only runs at 30fps?

Honestly, most people don't perceive at a rate higher than low to mid 20s of fps. Even under stress with a bunch of caffeine in your system, there are also limits based upon the speed of the chemical reactions in your eyes that allow you to see. Interestingly, black and white would likely offer you the best chance at perceiving faster (tests conducted on exceptional individuals have found that a white blip on black field can be detected at a speed equivalent to 200 fps), but the easiest way to get that in MWO is through thermal, which often takes a bite out of your fps.

[Kodyn]

Escef, on 16 August 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

Honestly, most people don't perceive at a rate higher than low to mid 20s of fps. Even under stress with a bunch of caffeine in your system, there are also limits based upon the speed of the chemical reactions in your eyes that allow you to see. Interestingly, black and white would likely offer you the best chance at perceiving faster (tests conducted on exceptional individuals have found that a white blip on black field can be detected at a speed equivalent to 200 fps), but the easiest way to get that in MWO is through thermal, which often takes a bite out of your fps.

This is how I manage to play at 15-40 FPS successfully. Generally I get more in the range of 20-30, on average, but I've only ever seen green FPS in this game once, when I got a 50 for a split second on HPG and nearly got killed because I was so shocked. Canyon as well, I've gotten high 40's, which is crazy for me, in MWO. While exciting to me, it made very little difference in gameplay...the only time FPS becomes an issue is with Thermal Vision on Frozen City, where it drops me to 10 or less, and on CW maps, where I tend to get 15-20, til the enemy shows up, then around 5-10.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Escef, on 16 August 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:

Have you ever looked at just how fast human reaction can be?

¨

im talking about FAST ? some of you are under weed, or some other crack.

[Escef]

Titannium, on 16 August 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

¨

im talking about FAST ? some of you are under weed, or some other crack.

Hmm, lemme double check...

Titannium, on 16 August 2015 - 04:59 AM, said:

I dont care if someone said, hey its allowed by PGI (hm, because they CANNOT HANDLE it).

I say, any form of macros = cheating. Its improving human reaction, and thus its advantage.

Yeah, it seems I misinterpreted your meaning. However, given your general attitude problem, and now accusations of drugs? Yeah, I've no further time for you.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

DjPush, on 15 August 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

I know I am going to catch flack for this because macros are allowed in MWO. However, to me it is in the same catagory as a wall hack or aimbot. A program outside of MWO that allows players to play the game at a level not possible by any means other than a computer. A computer program is firing the weapon for you while all you do is hold the button down.

Here is an example:



Am I out of line with these feelings towards macros? I refuse to use them because I think it's fighting dirty. What do you guys think?

*reads thread, reads responses.*

HA...HAHAHA, oh man... oh wow.

I was barking up this tree AGES ago, I mean like, back during closed beta.... I basically got told to STFU and get skill, and that not using macro's is for plebes...

Basically it gives an edge, regardless of what people think, it gives an edge. You can LEARN to do what macros do, but people don't want to learn that, they just want to program it and go.

You can argue all day that "Well what if someone has a hurt hand" ect, ect... but you're using an external computer program to do something you cannot do, even if it's due to a physical limitation, YOU CANNOT DO IT. theirfor it is cheating.

But good luck telling people this, good luck getting people to your side. Because they'll just tell you that a person can learn to do this stuff, so it's fine for a program to do it for them.

They want their easy button, instead of learning to do it themselves. So I quit even trying.

I do agree with you OP, it's totally cheating... but it's apparently a legal cheat, so there's no point in complaining about it.

[Kodyn]

Titannium, on 16 August 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

¨

im talking about FAST ? some of you are under weed, or some other crack.

I can't even begin to touch this post... I take it english is not your first language..but c'mon..work with it a little bit.

[Kodyn]

Flash Frame, on 16 August 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

*reads thread, reads responses.*

HA...HAHAHA, oh man... oh wow.

I was barking up this tree AGES ago, I mean like, back during closed beta.... I basically got told to STFU and get skill, and that not using macro's is for plebes...

Basically it gives an edge, regardless of what people think, it gives an edge. You can LEARN to do what macros do, but people don't want to learn that, they just want to program it and go.

You can argue all day that "Well what if someone has a hurt hand" ect, ect... but you're using an external computer program to do something you cannot do, even if it's due to a physical limitation, YOU CANNOT DO IT. theirfor it is cheating.

But good luck telling people this, good luck getting people to your side. Because they'll just tell you that a person can learn to do this stuff, so it's fine for a program to do it for them.

They want their easy button, instead of learning to do it themselves. So I quit even trying.

I do agree with you OP, it's totally cheating... but it's apparently a legal cheat, so there's no point in complaining about it.

Funny how almost all the people in this thread defending macros have all admitted they think they suck and don't use them, except the one guy who actually does have a hand injury...

Explain to me again how I benefit from defending other people's "easy button", I'll be listening keenly to this one...

We defend it, because just like legal weed and prostitution, it hurts no one (but the user, in the case of macros), so let them have it.

So many tinfoil hats in here we could melt them down and make a life-sized Atlas sculpture.

[KHETTI]

Macros are for players who don't quite have the baws to go full cheat.
They should be also considered for account bans.
Use marcos, be a filthy scrub.

[Throat Punch]

Titannium, on 16 August 2015 - 04:59 AM, said:

I dont care if someone said, hey its allowed by PGI (hm, because they CANNOT HANDLE it).

I say, any form of macros = cheating. Its improving human reaction, and thus its advantage.

When i am forced to use macro's it actually hurts my reaction time, not improve it, and I gain no advantage so that shoots your theory out of the water...

[Kodyn]

This is rapidly turning into a trollfest topic...

When you have people admitting that they are aware things are legal, but still freaking out and calling people cheaters, including people not even using the macros...yeah.

I think this was a topic that the sane should have just avoided. Logic and facts don't do well on the internet.

[Throat Punch]

KHETTI, on 16 August 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Macros are for players who don't quite have the baws to go full cheat.
They should be also considered for account bans.
Use marcos, be a filthy scrub.

So a handicapped/disabled person using macros to assist playing the game = scrub/cheater and should be banned...the more you know.

[Kodyn]

The other big fact that seems to be escaping everyone-Macros are not going to be detectable for PGI anyway, so even if for some twisted, illogical, stupid reason they did decide they wanted to ban them, they very likely would have zero way to implement that.

All these macros are is extra mouse clicks, just like the double-click button some mice now have. It's just a program on your PC that many mice/keyboards come with, that creates extra clicks or key presses when you click or hit a certain key.

How would you expect PGI to detect that? They'd have to ban literally all comp players who click at high enough speeds with enough regularity to outpace the macros, which they certainly can. Or, barring that, they'd have to actually hack everyone's PC individually to see if they were using the programs...

I mean, really people, reality. It's out there.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Kodyn, on 16 August 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

The other big fact that seems to be escaping everyone-Macros are not going to be detectable for PGI anyway, so even if for some twisted, illogical, stupid reason they did decide they wanted to ban them, they very likely would have zero way to implement that.

All these macros are is extra mouse clicks, just like the double-click button some mice now have. It's just a program on your PC that many mice/keyboards come with, that creates extra clicks or key presses when you click or hit a certain key.

How would you expect PGI to detect that? They'd have to ban literally all comp players who click at high enough speeds with enough regularity to outpace the macros, which they certainly can. Or, barring that, they'd have to actually hack everyone's PC individually to see if they were using the programs...

I mean, really people, reality. It's out there.

It's still a 3rd party program, that subverts your own ability, to do something.

it's still a form of automation. Kinda like a turbo button that's on some controllers... and you know what, THE MLG BANNED TURBO BUTTONS ON CONTROLLERS!

You're just not using a hardware hack, just a software that can do the same thing as said hardware hack...

Yes, I'm aware there's no real advantage to using them in this game, yes I'm aware that everyone defending them, are saying it's pointless. But everyone's going to downplay the usefulness of said software.

It's still subverting your own personal skill.

Say you are able to pull off a button combination in .6 seconds... but with a macro, you're able to do that same combo in .3 seconds... That's 2x the speed. That's still a form of cheating.

Does it make sense now? Frame it however you want, IT IS STILL CHEATING. it is augmenting your own reaction times with a 3rd party software.

[Throat Punch]

Flash Frame, on 16 August 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

It's still a 3rd party program, that subverts your own ability, to do something.

it's still a form of automation. Kinda like a turbo button that's on some controllers... and you know what, THE MLG BANNED TURBO BUTTONS ON CONTROLLERS!

You're just not using a hardware hack, just a software that can do the same thing as said hardware hack...

Yes, I'm aware there's no real advantage to using them in this game, yes I'm aware that everyone defending them, are saying it's pointless. But everyone's going to downplay the usefulness of said software.

It's still subverting your own personal skill.

Say you are able to pull off a button combination in .6 seconds... but with a macro, you're able to do that same combo in .3 seconds... That's 2x the speed. That's still a form of cheating.

Does it make sense now? Frame it however you want, IT IS STILL CHEATING. it is augmenting your own reaction times with a 3rd party software.

So, i'll ask again, what about people like me who have a legitimate handicapped who use macro's to play, and when i use said macro's i actually do worse with them than without. Am I cheating? Or does your argument only swing one way?

[Kodyn]

To me, and I think most people who have better things to do than pick fights on the internet for lulz all day, cheating is generally considered doing something that gives you some actual, tacit advantage...

Which you even admitted, macros in MWO do not....thus, since it doesn't actually help anyone play better, we don't really care for the extremely technical, semantic version of the word cheating you guys seem to think is so all-important.

I get that technically, linguistically, you're correct. I just really don't care. Talk to me about wall-hacks and aim-bots, and I'll freely say that's cheating, deserves bans, etc. People win when they shouldn't because of those. It matters when people use those. You can detect those.

Macros? That's like nit-picking between people with trash computers like me and guys with min-maxed machines that have 4x the RAM, double my CPU speed, and GPUs that make PCs from 5 years ago blush. They're playing an entirely different game from me, since they can use settings I can't, etc. That's where I place macros, in the hierarchy of things I can realistically give a **** about...macro users are just using a part of their computer that I don't.

[stjobe]

DjPush, on 15 August 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

macros are allowed in MWO.

This should have been /thread right there.

Which means, this thread should never have been posted. OP is a troll, and quite successful.

[Catra Lanis]

It's not cheating but in a way I understand what you are coming from. Everything you can do with macros you can do manually, on the other hand a macro does it again and again and it never misses a beat or get tired.

[oneproduct]

stjobe, on 16 August 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

This should have been /thread right there.

Which means, this thread should never have been posted. OP is a troll, and quite successful.

Women didn't use to be allowed to vote. Gays didn't used to be able to have their marriage recognized.

Sometimes you have to questions rules and determine if things should change.

You cannot defend something just by saying "because it's like this, it should stay like this."

I'm not saying that I think macros are a problem, but you have to let people discuss it and at least try to take any legitimate arguments they might have seriously.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

I use macros via VoiceAttack to control things like MASC, night vison toggle, zooming in and out, override toggle, thermal vison toggle, ECM toggle, chain weapon toggle, target lock and module activation. I do not use it or my G19S for weapons firing, not because I have some weird moral code about how I should or shouldn't explode other peoples imaginary digital robots, but because I cannot be bothered to go though each mech and set up endless macros for each of my 150+ mechs (over two accounts).

I use VoiceAttack because in Elite Dangerous I found controlling the ship systems to be more fun and immersive using voice, that directly translated to MWO. Sometimes the macros actually hamper me, sometimes they are slower than a key press, sometimes I forget the command I set up, sometimes I cough and it thinks I said shutdown (actually happened once).

Although my macros are not always direct combat advantages I personally do not see them as any better or worse than other people spending the time to make weapon macros. Its not like we all have comparable PCs, internet connections, keyboards, mice or monitors so it is never going to be a fair playing field. How I see it, macros are not against the rules so its fine by me.