80 replies to this topic

[Chef Kerensky]

Interesting. If what you're saying is true then that means this "fix" was a stupid idea that didn't actually address any of the underlying issues in the first place and is a massive waste of time that should have been reversed the minute the patch hit.

Very interesting.

[Heart of Storm]

Only time I ever see spawncamping is when the majority of mechs are dead and you're just hunting down the last 2-3 players who have a mech left. Never see it happening when there's still a full team left..

[Vellron2005]

The ONLY possible time when spawncamping happens since the dropship buff and spawn-site wall instalations is if your losing say, 20 : 45, and the enemy doesn't care about their third wave of mechs getting damaged to quickly rout your last few mechs..

Or in case of disconnected players sittin in their spawns.. then they have to go and get them..

[Chef Kerensky]

Apparently on Vitric Forge it happens when you reach Omega, because that's how far the dropships can shoot.

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

the dropships fixed spawncamping

on a match on hellbore, an enemy team attempted to spawncamp us before they were justly defeated by the dropships and the mechs that spawn

[Wild_Alaskan]

Heart of Storm, on 18 August 2015 - 03:36 AM, said:

Only time I ever see spawncamping is when the majority of mechs are dead and you're just hunting down the last 2-3 players who have a mech left. Never see it happening when there's still a full team left..

You've obviously never played against KCom.

[LORD ORION]

Chef Kerensky, on 18 August 2015 - 03:10 AM, said:

Interesting. If what you're saying is true then that means this "fix" was a stupid idea that didn't actually address any of the underlying issues in the first place and is a massive waste of time that should have been reversed the minute the patch hit.

Very interesting.

It fixed drop ship camping with the intent to knock out a couple of players earlier. (which really wasn't a problem unless your commander didn't know he could switch your spawn point)

It broke Counter Attack... where the defenders get up a few kills during the fresh mech push and then go hide in the spawn.... Your fresh mechs must then contend with OP dropships, followed with a fresh mech counter push while deep in the enemy base.

Edited by LORD ORION, 18 August 2015 - 10:13 AM.

[Telmasa]

[Redacted]

Still, I grant that we need wider (and bigger) open maps - ESPECIALLY around the base areas - instead of closed-in lane maps, with even more restricted terrain around the bases, where the map designers force where things happen instead of the players.

With the closed-lane style maps, the spawns as they are now as the best solution available to a flawed system.

If, say, Alpine Peaks was made into a CW map, and the central mountain was pretty much removed, *that* would be the ideal CW map. With a map like that, all you have to do to prevent spawn camping is have dynamic spawn points all around the periphery of the map - so if team A heads across the map to team B's original spawn and kills the first wave of team B, then team B spawns somewhere close to team A's original spawn & the next engagement will start anew with plenty time for both teams to form up, maneuver, and whatever.

Yeah, it draws the match out longer, and that's a good thing.

That means that there is space and time for strategy and tactics to take place.

___

TL/DR:

Until we get CW map overhauls that completely open up the entire map areas to the players - no inaccessible terrain - and add in a 'dynamic opposing spawn rotation system', the current spawn-camp-hard-counter mess is gonna remain the 'best' possible solution.

Edited by GM Patience, 21 August 2015 - 01:50 PM.
insults

[Triordinant]

RustyBolts, on 17 August 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

Because like I said.

"Lets face it, it sucks for those guys when they cant even move before they are dead. Actions like this is what is driving people away from a small population already."

Welcome to Community Warfare.

[AlphaToaster]

I hate to say it, I really do, but what is needed is the gate generators HP increased so the gates cause enough of a delay to allow slower mechs to move into defensive positions. The rush game is overly effective due to the defenders spawn being moved so far back in the base.

Allowing the defenders time to setup that first wave would be appropriate I think. Right now the gates drop so fast they're barely functioning as doorbells, let alone speed bumps.

And I would say put the defenders drop ships on a flight path that carries them over the inside of the base a bit more. This is instead of adding more turrets to slow down the attackers some.

Attackers dropships can fly over the approaches to the attacker spawn points as well to balance it a bit.

Being outside the gate for the defenders should be a dangerous place, as dangerous as inside the base is for attackers.

Edited by AlphaToaster, 18 August 2015 - 02:02 PM.

[Leggin Ho]

Folks would be a whole lot less likely to die in spawn if all the new hills/walls did not allow them to sit up there and snipe from the spawn, remove that ability and they may actually move out of the spawn and play, otherwise the attackers WILL move into the spawn and kill them instead of getting sniped while trying to take out the gens/Omega.

[Mystere]

RustyBolts, on 17 August 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

Still happens. How about you put some turrets at the spawn area on top of the drop ships. Maybe then it will stop or at least slow them down.

Your team getting spawn camped indicates a massive failure on your part. There is no other way to put it.

wfischer, on 18 August 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

You've obviously never played against KCom.

Based on me dropping with them several times, KCom's basic tactic is to bring the fight to the enemy. I see no problem with that ... at all.

Edited by Mystere, 18 August 2015 - 04:45 PM.

[Graugger]

Invading force should just have a Union class dropship that the players walk out of.

[Onionbird]

Telmasa, on 18 August 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

[Redacted]

Still, I grant that we need wider (and bigger) open maps - ESPECIALLY around the base areas - instead of closed-in lane maps, with even more restricted terrain around the bases, where the map designers force where things happen instead of the players.

With the closed-lane style maps, the spawns as they are now as the best solution available to a flawed system.

If, say, Alpine Peaks was made into a CW map, and the central mountain was pretty much removed, *that* would be the ideal CW map. With a map like that, all you have to do to prevent spawn camping is have dynamic spawn points all around the periphery of the map - so if team A heads across the map to team B's original spawn and kills the first wave of team B, then team B spawns somewhere close to team A's original spawn & the next engagement will start anew with plenty time for both teams to form up, maneuver, and whatever.

Yeah, it draws the match out longer, and that's a good thing.

That means that there is space and time for strategy and tactics to take place.

___

TL/DR:

Until we get CW map overhauls that completely open up the entire map areas to the players - no inaccessible terrain - and add in a 'dynamic opposing spawn rotation system', the current spawn-camp-hard-counter mess is gonna remain the 'best' possible solution.

At least all the games we spawncamped you into 48-5 losses were over fast, rather than waiting for each dropship to come and leave before we can kill all the mechs that refuse to leave their spawns.

[Mystere]

Telmasa, on 18 August 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

If, say, Alpine Peaks was made into a CW map, and the central mountain was pretty much removed, *that* would be the ideal CW map. With a map like that, all you have to do to prevent spawn camping is have dynamic spawn points all around the periphery of the map - so if team A heads across the map to team B's original spawn and kills the first wave of team B, then team B spawns somewhere close to team A's original spawn & the next engagement will start anew with plenty time for both teams to form up, maneuver, and whatever.

You already know what I think about Alpine peaks and CW.

[Bob Jenkins]

Quote

Interesting. If what you're saying is true then that means this "fix" was a stupid idea that didn't actually address any of the underlying issues in the first place and is a massive waste of time that should have been reversed the minute the patch hit.

Very interesting.

Duh. The addition of more turrets and beefing up the dropships actually ENCOURAGED spawn camping, because I see teams immediately take defensive positions at their base, instead of guarding objectives. This drives enemies to go after the spawn area because ... that is where the mechs are.

Until the c-bill/loyalty reward is higher for objectives than it is for killing mechs, "spawn camping" will NEVER leave the game, period.

[VorpalAnvil]

Can we just get rid of the new spawn areas? They don't work as intended ( who saw that coming, lol ) and I miss killing mechs before they touch the ground.

[MaxFool]

Bob Jenkins, on 19 August 2015 - 11:51 AM, said:

Until the c-bill/loyalty reward is higher for objectives than it is for killing mechs, "spawn camping" will NEVER leave the game, period.

The important part is that higher rewards fix won't make games any better. Better team waltzes into generators and omega, takes them effortlessly, timid defenders camp in their spawn and lets them do that. Who wants games like that?

Edited by MaxFool, 19 August 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[Tuann]

We had a 12 man of a big Clan unit defense spawn camp us when we had counter attack.
Hellbore springs, Last 2 waves, they were up 1 mech and quickly all ran back to their spawn to get dropship support , too scared to fight it out.

[nehebkau]

Chef Kerensky, on 18 August 2015 - 03:10 AM, said:

Interesting. If what you're saying is true then that means this "fix" was a stupid idea that didn't actually address any of the underlying issues in the first place and is a massive waste of time that should have been reversed the minute the patch hit.

Very interesting.

All the 'FIX' did was make it much harder for IS pilots to get into position before the, usually, faster clanners can get into position. In boreal vault, for example, attacking clanners heavies and mediums can get to the gates, and take them down and get inside before most IS mediums, heavies and assaults can even leave the base - ridge.