235 replies to this topic

[STEF_]

TWIAFU, on 18 August 2015 - 03:09 AM, said:

I would like to know my own ranking for my own personal knowledge.

I can use it to judge my own performance and not be judged by it.

^^
This! So much this.

Talking about sport, I've practiced a lot during my life, and performance datas were soooo useful for ME myself.

Sport is not judging e-peen between players, but improving yourself day by day.


I'm not agree with PGI wanting to do MWO an e-sport. (because I've always wanted MWO to be a combat simulation etc.)
But since this is their purpose, they should give players datas, and public datas, because it is fair for a team to know how a player is, how a recruit is performing.

[Erkki]

As someone who has also played WoT I would prefer for players to be able to decide if their tier/stats are public or not.

[Jetfire]

I guess I like the Starcraft 2 tier system and have not seen issues with it being public but I would not be opposed to a select-able display for anyone really worried about being called out. I think it will be easy enough to spot the T5's. I see T5's all the time as it is.

[Rhaythe]

Don't really care, but I'm going to endlessly ridicule the first idiot that starts using his meta-buffed ranking to casually dismiss a genuinely good idea on the forums solely because of player ranking.

Ugh. ELO-preening. Just what we need. Maybe I do care...

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

I would expect most who complain about things being OP or broken in this game would fall into tier's 3, 4 or 5. A public tier rating could be useful in that it might separate posters who might be considered informed from those who might not fall into that category.

It seems like people here, even the devs, are confused sometimes in terms of who they should listen to when making game changes. I would support public viewable tiers if they could cut down on the confusion and help people accurately ascertain the nature of what topics need be addressed.

[Lily from animove]

make it voluntary public, all problems solved.

[ApolloKaras]

I'll vote Opt in / opt out for public. You should be able to see it, so you can gauge your own progression. Of course you are going to have the "Like we're going to take advice from a tier 5 about how to avoid lrms trolol". Look at any game with public stats and look @ the forums you have quite a few trolls like that. I would hope our community / mods would slam any person doing that and attempting to undermine the argument by talking about tier. However Opt in and out will stop a lot of that.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

The way some posters constantly badger PGI and devs makes me think publicly viewable tiers should be mandatory.

It should be mandatory to see those who want to get rid of ghost heat, and those who want to get rid of pinpoint damage are in tier 5.

That helps put things in the proper perspective and could keep people more honest than they've been for a very long time.

[A big brave boulder of meat]

Just wanted to chime in with the OP and say I agree with his post. Thumbs up to viewable player Tier.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Won't matter to me. I know I'm a terrible pilot no matter what the rating tells me, and so does anyone who's played with me.

[ApolloKaras]

I Zeratul I, on 18 August 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

The way some posters constantly badger PGI and devs makes me think publicly viewable tiers should be mandatory.

It should be mandatory to see those who want to get rid of ghost heat, and those who want to get rid of pinpoint damage are in tier 5.

That helps put things in the proper perspective and could keep people more honest than they've been for a very long time.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand this is why it shouldn't be viewable. PGI can consider the source of the suggestion. The community is not making the final decision on what is implemented and what isn't.

[Lugh]

Cry Havoc and unleash the Truth.

[Alistair Winter]

Dimento Graven, on 17 August 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

I understand the concern, but sometimes the merits of the argument from someone who is unable to show expertise is questionable.

If an argument has actual merit, it will stand on its own regardless of the skill ranking of the individual making it.

The problem right now is that nobody knows their Elo ranking and yet almost everyone is talking about MWO like they're playing the same meta-game. Like the meta-game is exactly the same in the steering wheel underhive as it is for the most dedicated competitive players. Now, there is a pinch of truth, due to the fact that Matchmaker is terrible and regularly pits complete scrubs (in the true meaning of the word, i.e. people who have played less than a week) against the most skilled 3-year veterans. But when you look at steering wheel underhive pug matches with the top level tournament games, it's truly apples and oranges.

Whether the same can be said about "tier 5" pug games vs "tier 1" pug games, we don't know. Self-proclaimed elite pilots and recognized elite pilots are saying that the game is totally different at their level. You hear hipster statements like "Oh,you're using PPCs? That's cute. Yeah, nobody uses those in my games. We're using the new CUAC10-builds, you probably haven't heard about them."

It'll be wonderful to actually shed some light on what's going on, instead of relying on hearsay. It's 2015, for God's sake. It sucks that we're still relying on rumours and hearsay to understand how different people play the game.

[Unit47]

#YESPLEASE

so we can finally shut down the nerf-this-buff-that-discussions from Tier5 players immediately

Edited by Unit47, 18 August 2015 - 04:51 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

AssaultPig, on 18 August 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

I can't think of any actual (IRL) competitive endeavors where such rankings aren't public, and very few seriously competitive videogames. The only real argument against the tiers being public seems to be 'but people will be jerks!'
I'm gonna let you in on a well known secret: people are already jerks. There's nobody who's a decent person right now who'll be turned into an ******* by public tiers, and nobody who's currently an ******* who'll moderate themselves if you keep them private. More information is better, and what you'll tend to find out (as is the case in other games) is that the biggest screamers are actually mediocre players who can be safely ignored.
I guess the other argument would be that PGI would keep it private to keep any errors/shortcuts on their part from being exposed, but I don't find that argument terribly persuasive. More information is always better.

Agreed. Furthermore:

• You can ignore people who are being jerks. You literally won't see their posts.
  
• You can report people who are being jerks. Insulting other players is against the rules.
  
• A lot of people are so nonchalant about this, basically "I don't care if someone insults me. I'm a big boy, I can handle it. I'm just thinking about those other guys on the forum who would get their feelings hurt." Well, who are those other people? The number of offenders and the number of offended people both seem to be vastly exaggerated.

I Zeratul I, on 18 August 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

The way some posters constantly badger PGI and devs makes me think publicly viewable tiers should be mandatory.
It should be mandatory to see those who want to get rid of ghost heat, and those who want to get rid of pinpoint damage are in tier 5.
That helps put things in the proper perspective and could keep people more honest than they've been for a very long time.

Now my goal is to become a Tier 1 pilot.

... and then I'll tell you how much I hate ghost heat

Steinar Bergstol, on 18 August 2015 - 04:29 AM, said:

Won't matter to me. I know I'm a terrible pilot no matter what the rating tells me, and so does anyone who's played with me.

How do you manage to sleep at night?

[Ano]

While my immediate reaction was to vote for an opt-in system, as I've been thinking about it I guess I don't really mind either way. Ultimately if someone starts bagging on me and/or dismisses my opinions/suggestions out of hand because I'm a low-tier scrub, then ultimately it gives me a shortcut to understanding them (and quite possibly cheerfully ignoring them from then on).

I think some of the 'it's just a game, it's just people on the Internet' stuff misses the point a little though. An analogy: in many places, dog owners have to pick their dog's faeces when they take them for a walk. They're required by law and there are punishments for failing to do so. To that end, these dog owners carry plastic bags, or some kind of scoop with them when walking their dog, and they do what they have to when necessary, without fuss, as one of those things you have to do as a dog owner. I don't think many of them volunteer to pick up OTHER dog's faeces though, or for fun, and if there was a way to do it less (toilet train your dog?) then I'm confident they would.

it's similar for me with 'people on the internet'. Dealing with trolls, and the deliberately obtuse, and the professionally awkward and the just plain unpleasant is part of being involved with online communities and online gaming. If you can't "handle that" then you're going to struggle, that's absolutely true. That said, if there are ways to reduce the amount of unpleasantness I have to handle/ignore, I'm all for trying them.

Edit: to be clear -- I rather reject the "it's the internet, people are going to be {Richard Cameron}, get over it" fatalism that supposes it's impossible for online groups to be civil or to improve.

Edited by Ano, 18 August 2015 - 05:26 AM.

[Kira Onime]

[Ano]

Unit47, on 18 August 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

#YESPLEASE

so we can finally shut down the nerf-this-buff-that-discussions from Tier5 players immediately

I disagree (although I may be a tier 5 player, so you might shut my disagreement down immediately as well).

While PGI absolutely shouldn't be using the experience of brand-new players as singular input into their game balance decisions, the game HAS to have some way for lower-skill players to have fun, to play and to learn. If the ONLY response to any question, problem or suggestion from a new or lower-skill player is "tier5 opinions are irrelevant, git gud or go home" then I don't see a rosy future for the game -- for anyone of any skill level.

[Duke Nedo]

Heh, just read "I'm Voting Yes To Public Tears!"

[Steinar Bergstol]

Alistair Winter, on 18 August 2015 - 04:54 AM, said:

How do you manage to sleep at night?

By closing my eyes, of course.

Please. I've worked in the customer service field for almost two decades. By now if I gave two craps what people I don't really know thought of me, good or bad, I'd have jumped off a bridge years ago. The blue whales are jealous of my thick skin.