767 replies to this topic

[BadClick]

Full disclosure defenetly !

Edited by BadClick, 19 August 2015 - 02:19 PM.

[InspectorG]

WhoopieMonster, on 19 August 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

Full disclosure can also mean those in T5 will hopefully get more sympathy and help.

^THIS

Imagine a Solo drop where a reluctant leader sees that he/she NEEDS to help the others to win.

Think of the opportunities for coaching and measuring progress to better piloting.

Think of how happy that T5 pilot will be when they move to T4, and others get to see it.


Players arent seeing the upside to disclosure.

[HUBA]

It should be always visible, because it has IMO more advantages then drawbacks but only if it is mandatory and the lowest tire not become a looser tire. So make the "bronze" tire the biggest and the top "diamond" tire the smallest. Maybe distribute the tires 10%/20%/30%/40% and split the 40% so there is a hidden tire.

The advantage is that you can see the strength of your and the opponent team, no one will hide or claim to be a top player also top player will be handled different. If you see you opponent has a diamond star then you will be very careful and maybe call for help. Also a good aspect, it will encourage player to become better bronze is ok but silver is in reach and become a gold player is really good. But it woke best if there is no option and no reason (or doubt) to turn it off.

[AEgg]

Krivvan, on 19 August 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

-snip-

Would my opinions on a Starcraft 2 forum about build orders and etc. be worth less than a higher ranked player? Yes! Of course! They should be! I don't want people to consider advice from me in a game where I'm not very good as equal to that from some pro Starcraft player. How is that a bad thing for a community?

At the same time, my opinions as a lower skill player about things such as player experience at low tiers, about fun factor, about custom maps, about matchmaking and etc. aren't affected by my skill level.
-snip-

Have you ever heard of the concept of a coach?

You don't have to be particularly good at a game to have a good understanding of it. Arguably, you don't have to play it at all (though in that case you better have done your research).

True, this applies more to starcraft than MWO, primarily because 90% of being a good starcraft player is memorization of repetitive tasks and hand eye coordination rather than actual strategy, but there's always some of both in every game.

[FoXabre]

I thought about each direction and I believe that private only is the best way to go.

My reasoning for this is that knowing your own rating is helpful to you as a player to see where you are at and whether or not you are improving.

This is a good thing.

I personally don't see any benefit in making PSR public.

I foresee those who would abuse this system, using PSR tiers in an attempt to invalidate the opinions of others in chat and on the forums. I believe that having PSR kept private will prevent a separation of the community and keep the chat and forums as civil as they can be. Even if someone were to post a screenshot, it is not possible to tell for sure that the image was not modified and therefore can't be used as absolute proof. If someone has a great idea, it should not matter and they should not be undermined because they are of a lower rank than someone who disagrees.

In conclusion (and of course, in my opinion), pilot skill rating is a stat best kept as a personal benchmark rather than an almost certainly abused system for ridicule of other players.

Edited by FoXabre, 19 August 2015 - 02:24 PM.

[InspectorG]

Frytrixa, on 19 August 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Still think that showing the TIER will result in farming because many ppl want to reach the top tier, no matter if it matches or not.

If you read the response to the PSR closely you could read that 98% think that PSR is some kind of achievment and not some kind of balance tool.

Possilbe but also possible for T2/T1 players to bait farmers and thus mitigate the whole process. It is a TEAM game anyway and i dont think that type of farming is all that optimal.

PSR could be used for achievement. Why not? Do athletes in sports not use their records as a basis for achievement? Granted, the aim is not balance in that context but think of it as added incentive.

[Dark Jackal]

As this is just poll to see what blanket tier someone is in I don't see why folks would be shy about this basically basic of basic ranking information.

Full Disclo it is.

[merz]

Krivvan, on 19 August 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

From a pure business perspective, it's great for player retention.

Its a double edged sword, I think you understand that. While it energises a segment of a community, it drains another. The stats have been available to PGI for some time (and, indeed, calling them 'skill level' is somewhat a misnomer since they tabulate performance that is often out of your hands in a pug queue) but they haven't been released in the past citing precisely the kind of toxicity they generate and if you need any examples of that, you can't really feign ignorance because plenty have been provided to you by now via reddit.

but for the sake of providing an MWO-specific example, i'll posit something like this: I'm playing a wide variety of mechs including a hellbringer, an ecm griffin, an srm mad dog a gauss 3d and ac5 dragon. The actual piloting skills used in these are, with some overlap, significantly vary. Some of these mechs are extremely effective simply because of how the chassis with the right quirks and loadout performs. I know the more effective ones from the less effective, but enjoy the variety of different play styles involved even if they may not be the most minmaxed optimal in the current climate.

I also feed the need to state my opinions on a couple of forums like this one or reddit. With what you propose, the merit of my argument is bound to my pilot skill rating. It is also bound similarly for all others in the game with me, meaning that they have incentive to use the most optimal build for the most optimal mech they can manage. To some extent this is already the case in competitive leagues and organised CW, which is why the drop decks you're likely to see there have about the freshness of hardtack and saltpork.

So what happens now is that instead of playing the mechs I want, I (and everyone else) must run and run exclusively whatever is considered the most broken and underhanded under the current mechanics in order to maintain a public PSR level necessary in order for whatever argument in no way linked to one's PSR to be perceived as legitimate. In general, the game becomes a matter of securing and maintaining a tier of performance as recognised by the system (on wins and losses as a team) that has nothing to do with anyone's individual skill in piloting (unless you're the MVP every game and single-handedly carry any time your koreanese-anointed boots touch the pug queue ground)

Surely this obviously to you?

Edited by merz, 19 August 2015 - 02:40 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Well I found the way the pole is written very insulting to those that don't want things put on display.
If it was written like this as a player it would have had no value because of its bias towards full disclosure.

Pretty clear what PGI really want, so I voted gun shy out of spite, though I don't hide from pixel guns

[0rionsbane]

honestly i dont understand why we dont have stats yet. we only have personal profiles and no real way to export those or view another players. stats are basic you have them you share them because then we can see where we fall in skill, what things are viable, and a metagame develops.

[Nightmare1]

Thanks for letting us vote Paul!

I voted for Opt-In. As much as I would like Full Disclosure, I know that there are some folks here who would be upset by that. In that case, it just isn't worth it. Best to give folks a choice.

...For the record though, if it goes Opt-In, I'll be Opting-In to display mine...

[Frytrixa]

Don't Show to anyone, this is a balance tool not an achievment.

[Krivvan]

AEgg, on 19 August 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

Have you ever heard of the concept of a coach?

You don't have to be particularly good at a game to have a good understanding of it. Arguably, you don't have to play it at all (though in that case you better have done your research).

And Starcraft coaches are still good at the game. Pretty much universally. Exceptions are extremely rare. They're sometimes not the absolute absolute top tier due to not having the mechanics to pull it off, but you don't usually get an expert understanding of something without being able to, well, apply it.

merz, on 19 August 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

Its a double edged sword, I think you understand that. While it energises a segment of a community, it drains another. The stats have been available to PGI for some time (and, indeed, calling them 'skill level' is somewhat a misnomer since they tabulate performance that is often out of your hands in a pug queue) but they haven't been released in the past citing precisely the kind of toxicity they generate and if you need any examples of that, you can't really feign ignorance because plenty have been provided to you by now via reddit.

Not really no. Games like LoL are toxic because of their population. Not because they have stats visible. In games with smaller populations I've seen nothing but positives from public stats. Is there a game out there that has went on to remove something like that? In my experience, every single game I've played have added in public stats as a feature, then went on to emphasize it with big rank-up animations, special portraits/skins, forum avatars, etc.

Edited by Krivvan, 19 August 2015 - 02:36 PM.

[Throat Punch]

I've changed my mind. I want it fully displayed as a title next to our forum names. Rank 1- Epeen God, Rank 2-Tryhard, Rank 3- Dunning Kruger, Rank 4 - Underhive drone, Rank 5 - Hive Lord. I for one welcome our Hive Lord Masters and strive to join their ranks.

[bad arcade kitty]

Cathy, on 19 August 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

Well I found the way the pole is written very insulting to those that don't want things put on display.
If it was written like this as a player it would have had no value because of its bias towards full disclosure.

Pretty clear what PGI really want, so I voted gun shy out of spite, though I don't hide from pixel guns

i agree, it's an insulting and biased vote

[Goombah]

Show nothing in pre-match lobby.
Show ranks in post game recap.

If you suck and get a terrible score, there's no hiding it. You can't hide being bad.
Some people will complain they got a case of the bads and that's why they lost. Those people are never happy no matter what happens. They will complain either way.
******** don't need an excuse to be an ******* to everyone. They will be ******** no matter what numbers are displayed
If you chain fire 4 medium lasers and fire Machine guns at 300 meters, you will be made fun of.

[Krivvan]

bad arcade kitty, on 19 August 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

i agree, it's an insulting and biased vote

I think the vote is a little biased too actually (not all that much though), but I also think that the answer should be so obvious that there shouldn't have been a vote at all.

Edited by Krivvan, 19 August 2015 - 02:39 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Gun shy is not insulting, you guys are being hypersensitive. Please stop victimizing yourself, and it is not a bias vote..

[bad arcade kitty]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

Gun shy is not insulting, you guys are being hypersensitive. Please stop victimizing yourself, and it is not a bias vote..

it makes the poll biased, imagine how it would affect the results if 'full disclosure' was named 'epeen meter', not an insult too

also option #3 is basically the same as #2, there is no option do not show the stats at all

it's a very unprofessional poll, i refuse to vote

[BigBucket]

More info would be nice displayed where? On forums? On scoreboard? As an in game "title"?

I voted opt in. Don't take away my right to choose to display my tier and I won't vote to take away your choice to not display yours.