141 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Kira_Onime, on 22 August 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

yeah..... 'bout that....

Yeah yeah it was your group lol

But like I said, if IM so bad why am I being matched against you? Im clearly not in the same league

not to stroke your epeen or anything but its true lol

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 22 August 2015 - 07:24 AM.

[Kira Onime]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 22 August 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

Yeah yeah it was your group lol

But like I said, if IM so bad why am I being matched against you? Im clearly not in the same league

Well say we were T2, that would mean we could match vs T4-3-2-1.

But that was also a problem on frozen city where the B4 spawning lance can either roll or be roll depending on what spawns there.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 22 August 2015 - 04:42 AM, said:

You know little about real trolls - say... Word of Lowtax... They trolled so hard the mods created the kaekaetoa part of the forums just to contain them. They tried to own Liao and told ppl that they were the rulers of Liao. In TS and on the forums and eventually the forum mods told them the only place they could RP that was in KKT or off topic lol

Wheres the fun in all of that? And that was over a longer time than it would take to game the system



If thats the case how isnt everyone tier 1 right now?

If it takes 50 to 100 games to adjust, then we should all be only going up as Ive been dropping a lot lately but Ill bet I havent had 50 matches since the change yet.

Also, and maybe worse, youre trying to tell me that this system was designed to mismatch players for hours at a time so that they lose constantly that whole time to 0-12 games against teams they have zero chance of winning against?

That sounds like a serious issue.

You're being dense and not grasping larger picture stuff as you have a bias going on.

MB, please get over it. Let the system shake out for a week or so and see. There's a lot of things that have had to be tweaked with another large patch. Keep heart.

<3

[Vlad Ward]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 22 August 2015 - 05:11 AM, said:

Then again, if it takes hundreds of losses to change tiers then that makes more sense as then everyone would end up in tier 1 and would stay in tier 1 until they hit a point where they has a hundreds games losing streak to normalize them...

Yeah I dont think even I could handle that

How in the world do you figure?

Sure, it would take the current denizens of Tier 1, which if they used a normal distribution and standard deviations to delineate tiers consists of the top 1.5% of MWO's population, hundreds of losses to sink down.

That doesn't mean everyone is Tier 1, or everyone will be Tier 1. If they're using something like a normal distribution, it's literally impossible for everyone to be Tier 1. Once enough players bump up their skill ratings, if they only bump them up, they'll just overtake existing, inactive Tier 1s and bump them down into Tier 2.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 22 August 2015 - 09:41 AM.

[Vlad Ward]

My understanding of PSR is as follows:

It's just a number assigned to a player. I don't mean a tier number. I mean a score. When you perform well, you get points added to your score. If you suck, you get points subtracted from your score.

Tier 1 then consists of the 1.5% of the population with the highest pilot scores (assuming 2sigma, normal distribution). This could mean anything from 50,000 pilot points to 5,000,000 pilot points, so long as everyone else's score is lower. This is why it could take months for a 5,000,000 rated Tier 1 pilot to drop down.

While it's technically possible for players in Tiers 2-4 to also take hundreds of games to change tiers, it's far less likely because their scores already have both upper and lower bounds (not explicitly, of course, but after a while they'd end up in tiers 1 or 5).

[Krivvan]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

Thats all I generally use so why am I within striking distance of 228 lol

It's not as if all of 228 are in the top tier. 228 players likely range from Tier 5 to Tier 1. It's only their Black Watch team that's considered high tier. The majority are probably around Tier 3 or 2 level.

Edited by Krivvan, 22 August 2015 - 10:14 AM.

[Krivvan]

Kjudoon, on 22 August 2015 - 04:26 AM, said:

I was taught well. If everyone else was going to jump off a bridge, stay where you are and tell the police what idiots they were or at least walk away.

You were taught wrong. In this game, staying with the team is more important than doing the right thing (unless the team is quite literally running off the map). You're more likely to win a fight out of a bad position together than win with half the players in a good position.

[EgoSlayer]

Hit the Deck, on 21 August 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

Russ, is the Tier population normal distributed or shaped like a pyramid (with the base composed of T5 players)?

http://mwomercs.com/...r-distribution/

It can't be structured like a pyramid. New players are Tier 4, and players worse than new are Tier 5. A pyramid would mean that the majority of players are worse than people who have never played before.

It has to be either a bell curve distribution or an equal/near equal split across the tiers. I would guess it's a bell curve since just about any skill/talent/ability/trait in humanity follows a bell curve.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 22 August 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[Krivvan]

Well I can say that I've played a lot over the last several days and I have not once seen Buddah. I'm sure I would've recognized him.

[Deathlike]

Well, I've seem more EmP, SJR, and 228 these past days... so clearly I have to actually show up.

[Tarogato]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 22 August 2015 - 06:35 AM, said:

But again, Im bad at this game, Ill admit it, I usually run **** builds, so WHY am I being matched against skilled teams?

If you recognise that you're bad and run bad builds, then why don't you start running good builds and try to get better? That's what most people do...

Void Angel, on 22 August 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:

Not so; why would you jump to that conclusion? You're reasoning from incomplete and false premises: if it takes hundreds of losses to go down, people would only rise inevitably toward the top if it took less to go up.

Technically, there are more ways to go up than to go down - strictly speaking, it takes less to go up. The OP's concern is very viable.



It's because there's no "very low" performance category.

Edited by Tarogato, 22 August 2015 - 01:26 PM.

[Deathlike]

Tarogato, on 22 August 2015 - 01:24 PM, said:

If you recognise that you're bad and run bad builds, then why don't you start running good builds and try to get better? That's what most people do...



Technically, there are more ways to go up than to go down - strictly speaking, it takes less to go up. The OP's concern is very viable.



It's because there's no "very low" performance category.

My concern with the system is that some people will be inflated indefinitely at certain tiers (aka Elo hell) because unless you are really bad indefinitely, you will always reach a certain plateau and hang there for a significant bad.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Tarogato, on 22 August 2015 - 01:24 PM, said:

If you recognise that you're bad and run bad builds, then why don't you start running good builds and try to get better? That's what most people do...

cause Id rather "fun" than "good"

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Kira_Onime, on 22 August 2015 - 07:26 AM, said:

Well say we were T2, that would mean we could match vs T4-3-2-1.

thats ... stupid whats the point in tiers then lol

[Kjudoon]

Psr needs to be able to fluctuate equally in both directions. This puts a nasty bias upwards which will ultimately cause the very problem it seems to be developed to counter. If you do crappy in a victory your psr should vo down slightly. If you do just okay it should remain steady. For those oc us out there who do not WANT to improve and are happy with what we are doing you are actively incentivising tanking games and/or recreating elo hell.

Psr improvement should have a neutral buoyancy win or loss just biased up or down depending on wjn or loss.

Not all of us play this game to challenge ourselves, compets or grow. We just love battletech and want to just have some fun. If we want to get better, then working at it should really benefit.

[Mcgral18]

Russ Bullock, on 21 August 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

I really doubt they can or would game the tier system it is separated by a lot of points in the upper tiers - they would need to tank really badly on hundreds and hundreds of matches to drop down. Likely were talking about group queue and it's just opening up to the full 2 tier spread - meaning tier 1 vs 3.

Take a screen shot of a match in question and we could check all the tiers in question and make sure it's working as intended.

Do you thinking listing Aggregate PSR tiers at the end of a match would help people cope?


You don't show who's what tier, just show how many of each somewhere at the end screen.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

3 hours of losing games -.-

oh wait won one damn

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 22 August 2015 - 05:44 PM.

[Jeffrey Wilder]

PSR is way better than ELO as far as I can tell. At least I am not stuck in some ELO hell anymore.

[Mawai]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

We've been running against HHoD and 228 the last hour. If we're getting massacred (I mean really destroyed with 75 damage max) Why arent we dropping in psr to somewhere we're SUPPOSED to be?!

If you are dropping in the group queue then it has traditionally had less balanced matches due to the additional complexity of trying to fit the groups of varying sizes into two teams. This was true with Elo and is likely also true with PSR.

PGI has not yet commented on the tiers other than to say that folks won't be matched up with other players more than 2 tiers away as far as I know. However, they haven't said anything about PSR itself. Were they careful and made sure it was conservative? If it isn't conservative then the PSR ratings will generally move up over time since you can increase your PSR when you lose with a good game according to the patch notes. How do you decide on what tier a player is in if the range of PSR values constantly increases?

If I had to guess. I would say that PGI is using the same matchmaker but they have substituted PSR for Elo in the team formation algorithm with the added constraint that the PSR band won't expand farther than spanning 3 tiers.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Jeffrey Wilder, on 22 August 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

PSR is way better than ELO as far as I can tell. At least I am not stuck in some ELO hell anymore.

apparently im stuck in psr hell