377 replies to this topic

[Triordinant]

Yokaiko, on 22 August 2015 - 02:35 AM, said:

Yeah, the group boggieman.

As I said in a different way before: it doesn't matter if you think it's a boogeyman. If the majority of MWO players know it to be real that's all that counts with PGI (or any company with customers).

[Kjudoon]

Wow... Its all about unfair advantage??????????

Projection and mischaracterization of the discussion. Scraping the bottom of the rhetorical barrel i see.

Edited by Kjudoon, 22 August 2015 - 04:38 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Again Yoko a gross mischaracterization. Vlax was honest. It is about group advantage over solo players and forcing the majority to be fodder for the enjoyment of an elite minority. The hypocrisy is palpable finally.

[Yokaiko]

No its a boogie man, period.

If there are groups...plural...and solos present you are going to get both friendly AND hostile teams in a game. That means that there is no net advantage, its just like the solo queue.

It always was.

Back from the unregulated, 8 man days, I would drop solo and wonder what the hell the hell the "WE ARE GETTING PUG STOMPED" crowd was whining about, because that pack of screaming hamsters either had the worst luck EVER or they were blaming every loss on a team whether or not there was a team present or not.

.....and they KEPT IT UP for about 6 months after the solo queue became part of the game.

[Vlad Ward]

Triordinant, on 22 August 2015 - 02:39 AM, said:

As I said in a different way before: it doesn't matter if you think it's a boogeyman. If the majority of MWO players know it to be real that's all that counts with PGI (or any company with customers).

You have a point, which is why I wanted to open up this discussion in the first place.

Even in the CW boards, people have become obsessed with the notion of groups vs solos, like it's the only thing that determines the outcome of a match.

It's not, mind you. Any unit player who regularly drops solo can tell you that a given match is more easily decided by who is on each team rather than how many shared tags there are. You see X, Y, and Z on the other side but don't recognize any of your teammates? Prepare for a fight. You see a full 12-man from Bad Unit A, but a couple solid pugs you remember on your side? Free win for you.

But it's not easy to sway hearts and minds over something like this, especially when this animosity has existed for literally years and stems from a time when groups had real, significant gameplay advantages over soloists and the game was extremely lacking in fundamental UI and QoL knick knacks.

I really don't think people would have such a bad time now with voip and other goodies against an equally skilled group, or with other small groups on their team, but there's no way for people to try it and find out as it stands.

Kjudoon, on 22 August 2015 - 02:41 AM, said:

Wow... Itw all about unfair advantage??????????

Projection and mischaracterization of the discussion. Scraping the bottom of the rhetorical barrel i see.

I don't even know who you're talking to at this point. This thread is moving rather quickly. Would you mind quoting the posts you're responding to?

[Yokaiko]

Kjudoon, on 22 August 2015 - 02:44 AM, said:

Again Yoko a gross mischaracterization. Vlax was honest. It is about group advantage over solo players and forcing the majority to be fodder for the enjoyment of an elite minority. The hypocrisy is palpable finally.

Oh where?

If you have GROUPS and SOLOs present that means that it is going to even out in the long run.

Its no advantage, you win some you lose some, but that is no different from the solo queue now.

Kjudoon, on 22 August 2015 - 02:41 AM, said:

Wow... Itw all about unfair advantage??????????

Projection and mischaracterization of the discussion. Scraping the bottom of the rhetorical barrel i see.

So again, tell me what I am mis-characterizing or are you saying that you will never drop with a friendly team?

[Kjudoon]

On my phone. No ability to quote.

Edited by Kjudoon, 22 August 2015 - 04:38 AM.

[Triordinant]

Yokaiko, on 22 August 2015 - 02:46 AM, said:

No its a boogie man, period.

Just because you say the Moon is made of Swiss cheese doesn't mean it is. Thankfully, in a customer-driven game the majority decides what is and what isn't. Not you.

[Vlad Ward]

Triordinant, on 22 August 2015 - 02:51 AM, said:

Just because you say the Moon is made of Swiss cheese doesn't mean it is. Thankfully, in a customer-driven game the majority decides what is and what isn't. Not you.

Er, not quite. The majority can have perceptions, but that doesn't make them accurate.

[Yokaiko]

Triordinant, on 22 August 2015 - 02:51 AM, said:

Just because you say the Moon is made of Swiss cheese doesn't mean it is. Thankfully, in a customer-driven game the majority decides what is and what isn't. Not you.

So I'm still waiting for a rebuttle more involved that saying that I am wrong over and over. I got time.

[Kjudoon]

Perception is more important than reality most times. You believe thus and act accordingly regardless of truth. Historically this bears out through humanity.

[Yokaiko]

Ahh

So no fact, just philosophy? Why don't you just say "I got nothing".

[Vlad Ward]

Kjudoon, on 22 August 2015 - 02:55 AM, said:

Perception is more important than reality most times. You believe thus and act accordingly regardless of truth. Historically this bears out through humanity.

Thankfully, perceptions are malleable.

[Kjudoon]

Wasnt talking to yoko. Maybe later. Busy.

[Triordinant]

Vlad Ward, on 22 August 2015 - 02:46 AM, said:

You have a point, which is why I wanted to open up this discussion in the first place.

Ooh! Ooh! Mr. Peabley! Err, I want my 2,000th post to be friendly!

Anyway, even if our positions are apart, they're a lot closer than when we started. Who knows? PGI might (hopefully) have surprises in the future that'll make certain disagreements moot.

Thank you for playing ForumWarrior Online. Until next time...

Yokaiko, on 22 August 2015 - 02:53 AM, said:

So I'm still waiting for a rebuttle more involved that saying that I am wrong over and over. I got time.

You don't get it. It's not whether you're wrong or not. You're entitled to your opinion. Just don't be sore if few people share it.

[Yokaiko]

Triordinant, on 22 August 2015 - 03:01 AM, said:

Ooh! Ooh! Mr. Peabley! Err, I want my 2,000th post to be friendly!

Anyway, even if our positions are apart, they're a lot closer than when we started. Who knows? PGI might (hopefully) have surprises in the future that'll make certain disagreements moot.

Thank you for playing ForumWarrior Online. Until next time...


You don't get it. It's not whether you're wrong or not. You're entitled to your opinion. Just don't be sore if few people share it.

You were the one accusing me. Back it up.

Again, IF the pub queues were merged what substantive advantage or disadvantage is there when teams of multiple sizes (i.e. small by PGI's numbers) are present on both sides of the field in addition to solos?

Edited by Yokaiko, 22 August 2015 - 03:04 AM.

[warner2]

PGI should at least allow solo players to opt-in to play in the group queue.

That sounds contradictory I know because if you want to play in the group queue you can like, join a group.

However, there are plenty of people who play solo and want to remain doing so but would probably use the option to drop into the group queue, and also it'll probably be another way for solo players to find a group.

[Yokaiko]

warner2, on 22 August 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

PGI should at least allow solo players to opt-in to play in the group queue.

That sounds contradictory I know because if you want to play in the group queue you can like, join a group.

However, there are plenty of people who play solo and want to remain doing so but would probably use the option to drop into the group queue, and also it'll probably be another way for solo players to find a group.

Which a few have asked for since the solo queue became a thing.

[Kjudoon]

warner2, on 22 August 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

PGI should at least allow solo players to opt-in to play in the group queue.

That sounds contradictory I know because if you want to play in the group queue you can like, join a group.

However, there are plenty of people who play solo and want to remain doing so but would probably use the option to drop into the group queue, and also it'll probably be another way for solo players to find a group.

That is my whole point of the Three Queue solution. But till we get over say 50k in players, it's just not going to happen. Maybe we'll be lucky and this is going to be tied to a Steam release. If so, bully for PGI!

Shoving everyone into one queue for the benefit of a small group of seal clubbers is asinine. They may claim it's not for that, but functionally it is. It's not about the group boogeyman. I'm not tilting at that windmill, but it does not solve skill imbalance problems which is a real and functional issue of the game. With one queue, you're going to see the 'slaughter of the younglings' by experienced players, Tiers or no tiers in their current form. This community is toxic and I maintain this is why we can't have a lot of nice things for people.

Quote

Ahh

So no fact, just philosophy? Why don't you just say "I got nothing".

I'm not giving you a free sociology lesson here. Perception is more powerful than actuality. People believed that baths made them sick, so they got sick from being filthy, and blamed it on the last time they got wet, or night air from which we got the word Malaria. This popular superstition is not gone today in even this day and age. I could site some very hotbutton issues in meteorology that's full of hokum and junk science but because people believe it, it's their reality and they react to it accordingly. Some people believe it so strongly they will deny any evidence that is contrary. The Placebo effect is extremely powerful, particularly in the unintelligent and superstitious, and the very well educated who have been taught to be able to make themselves believe anything with enough rationalization.

Perception is powerful.

[Yokaiko]

Kjudoon, on 22 August 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

Some people believe it so strongly they will deny any evidence that is contrary. The Placebo effect is extremely powerful, particularly in the unintelligent and superstitious, and the very well educated who have been taught to be able to make themselves believe anything with enough rationalization.

Perception is powerful.

This post is so wonderfully ironic....