67 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

FlipOver, on 25 August 2015 - 03:25 AM, said:

Doesn't change anything about what I initially said.
He's to blame as much as the team or the pilot giving wrong intel.

Well you can't learn to be better if you don't try. And the OP is advocating stagnating, which is counter productive.

[The Iron Chancellor]

In a team oriented game, it is better to follow the one who speaks out and have everyone move in unison rather than be that guy that thinks hes doing the right thing and everyone else are wrong, and gets isolated and destroyed.

It is the other players responsibility to alert the commander in case his commands are counter-productive/illogical, to warn of imminent danger, to provide insight, and in the case they aren't, to freaking follow him (I've seen too many people attempt at commanding order a charge to be left out in the cold like dirt, it's quite annoying)

If they choose to say nothing however, then they are in absolutely no position to criticize him,
even when things end miserably.
From experience I know that it is not an easy thing to TRY to command, more often than not it is even more discouraging when people will choose to not follow SOME form of plan rather than just wonder around like a silent pack of lambs doing whatever.

(From my experience though I tend to be ignored more in group queue than solo queue, which you'd think it should be the opposite, but as it turns out a group of two people trying to warn/command in a group comprised of other larger groups tends to be an immediate ingredient for mute/ignore).

When all is said and done, even if the match ends up in a loss, I'll usually always give credit to he who tries to command, it is not an easy thing to do, and if you can't even do that, then at the very least maintain silence, it's bloody irritating to see people who maintain complete radio silence the entire match, not warn of imminent danger, nor provide any useful insight, only speak up to moan and berate the (usually one) individual who tried to command, it is disgusting and quite frankly, you ought to be ashamed.

~The Iron Chancellor

Edited by The Iron Chancellor, 25 August 2015 - 03:44 AM.

[FlipOver]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 August 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

Well you can't learn to be better if you don't try. And the OP is advocating stagnating, which is counter productive.

And I agree with you, that's why I stated he should of said something.

[Mycrus]

Queek Head Taker, on 24 August 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

I'm sick of people with mics who give advice and it's the worst advice ever. If you suck and you have a mic please don't give your team advice. I turned all my chats off so i don't rage at my teams it really helps. Please Turn your mics off so you don't get your team killed. A guy on mic said they are under us. I knew they weren't. But team went under.. to find nothing... then they ambushed us and finished us off. Stupid guy on mic killed us.

Which is why we need visible PSR...

Another reason why i wear my founders tags...

[TWIAFU]

Kiiyor, on 24 August 2015 - 06:59 PM, said:

Anyone with the stones to nut up and take command DESERVES to be listened to.

I will always follow the orders of someone who tries to command, even if the orders are so ludicrously bad that I only follow them out of a sense of sheer, morbid curiosity. You should too. If you don't want to, then mute the player, or suggest an alternative.

Don't whine about it on the forums.

Ditto.

In solo, if someone is brave enough to try to take command, I will follow. After the match if the DC is still around, will offer suggestions, if needed, to improve.

Victory or Death, follow your DC. Only with trust between the DC and his/her troops can victory finally be achieved. Only with that trust can the DC become better and by a better DC the troops will do better as well. Better leadership leads to better combat engagements, win or lose.

The better DC and the better pilots learn from the games they drop in, again, win or lose.

There are two types of pilots on MWO.

Those that complain about the challenge and look outward for cause.

Those that rise to the challenge and face it. Win or lose, use the challenge to become better.

We want to drop with the second type.

[TWIAFU]

Mycrus, on 25 August 2015 - 03:50 AM, said:

Which is why we need visible PSR...

Another reason why i wear my founders tags...

If ONLY visible to the pilot. NO GOOD will come a publicly visible PSR.

With respect and as an example;

Your Founders tag means nothing. All it means is you spent money early on for gifts. It could be your a crap pilot with a Founders tag, doubt it, but it could. Founders Tag does not mean one opinion is more valued over another.

Are people really going to screen people in Group Queue? If your PSR is not XXX your out of group. If you do not have a full set of purple raid gear you cannot raid with us. Get kicked out of CW groups because someone thinks your PSR is not what he thinks you should have?

I have seen games where players could examine the stats and equipment of other characters. This was NEVER used for the good it was intended to provide. All that is did was allow some e-peen stroking, elitism, segregation, and community wide harm. Eventually the DEVs learned that a great many players abused this and others by it. Eventually the ability was removed, but not after the harm to the community was done.

The player base CANNOT be trusted with this information beyond their own personal score. Show or Hide, it has already started! For example, if you Hide you are going to thought of as a cheater because cheaters would want to hide PSR.

People already will NOT allow people to join groups if PSR is not publicly shown! This is even before we have any option at all to show or not. This is the mindset and plan.

Public view is not good for the community and not good for the players. Make it default private with option to show public - at your own risk.

[Karamarka]

I disabled voip after games like

"Lights and fast mechs go cap the bases!" which is total garbage while their main team mops up half our team than recaps

or

"mechs go for base cap" while in the middle of a battle and half our people turn and die

gg

[Mycrus]

TWIAFU, on 25 August 2015 - 04:18 AM, said:

If ONLY visible to the pilot. NO GOOD will come a publicly visible PSR.

With respect and as an example;

Your Founders tag means nothing. All it means is you spent money early on for gifts. It could be your a crap pilot with a Founders tag, doubt it, but it could. Founders Tag does not mean one opinion is more valued over another.

Are people really going to screen people in Group Queue? If your PSR is not XXX your out of group. If you do not have a full set of purple raid gear you cannot raid with us. Get kicked out of CW groups because someone thinks your PSR is not what he thinks you should have?

I have seen games where players could examine the stats and equipment of other characters. This was NEVER used for the good it was intended to provide. All that is did was allow some e-peen stroking, elitism, segregation, and community wide harm. Eventually the DEVs learned that a great many players abused this and others by it. Eventually the ability was removed, but not after the harm to the community was done.

The player base CANNOT be trusted with this information beyond their own personal score. Show or Hide, it has already started! For example, if you Hide you are going to thought of as a cheater because cheaters would want to hide PSR.

People already will NOT allow people to join groups if PSR is not publicly shown! This is even before we have any option at all to show or not. This is the mindset and plan.

Public view is not good for the community and not good for the players. Make it default private with option to show public - at your own risk.

all things equally sonny, if you have played a game as long as a founder then most likely you know a thing or two about the game...

that is not a 100% guarantee of course (duh)...

why are you scared that ppl see your PSR? USFIV does it, at least you don't feel so bad if you get whooped by the 3K point level dude running "Dan"

[CDLord HHGD]

And to think, I was just about to give in-game voip another chance.....

[KharnZor]

cdlord, on 25 August 2015 - 04:35 AM, said:

And to think, I was just about to give in-game voip another chance.....

Do it anyway.

[Giving Em The Business]

Queek Head Taker, on 24 August 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

I'm sick of people with mics who give advice and it's the worst advice ever. If you suck and you have a mic please don't give your team advice. I turned all my chats off so i don't rage at my teams it really helps. Please Turn your mics off so you don't get your team killed. A guy on mic said they are under us. I knew they weren't. But team went under.. to find nothing... then they ambushed us and finished us off. Stupid guy on mic killed us.

Wrong, if you really want to know partly why you lost then look in the mirror.

Queek Head Taker, on 24 August 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

A guy on mic said they are under us. I knew they weren't. But team went under.. to find nothing... then they ambushed us and finished us off. Stupid guy on mic killed us.

You knew that they weren't there (by your own admission) and instead of helping you decided to remain silent.
In other words your team faced 13 opponents that day and that's because you remained silent and in doing so actually helped the enemy team. In some games this post could actually get you reported for "assisting the enemy team"

I also noticed that while you admit that you somehow knew they weren't there it appears that you didn't have a clue about where they were except you knew "not there". In other words you didn't truly have a clue either and now you are mad because someone made a guess based of what they saw, or possibly a glitch blip on their screen. ie In CW sometimes the enemy appears for a sec on your radar in your DZ which is impossible at the start of the match yet still causes people to turn around at times.

I am new I don't always make the right calls or intel calls but I try and I try to get better everyday.
I wasn't in that match, but I will say this.
If you OP don't have the stones to step up knowing you may also be wrong then you have no business complaining about someone else who is willing to at least try to do something that you are not.
So what he made an error, at least he didn't horde info and actually tried to make a difference.

My 2 cents, keep the change

Edited by Giving Em The Business, 25 August 2015 - 05:14 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Karamarka, on 25 August 2015 - 04:23 AM, said:

I disabled voip after games like

"Lights and fast mechs go cap the bases!" which is total garbage while their main team mops up half our team than recaps

or

"mechs go for base cap" while in the middle of a battle and half our people turn and die

gg

Truthfully though, Assault is the hardest mode to try and command. Even conquest is easier. In conquest, you can see defeat looming, in one way or another. You almost always have time to relish your impending doom. Skirmish? Point mechs at enemy. Most mechs pointing at bad guys wins.

Assault is a different beast entirely. If you're being capped, you need to make a decision immediately, and it has to be the right decision. Don't commit enough mechs to the cap, you'll be crushed while you're split. Commit too few, and all you've done is temporarily remove a few mechs from your front line to be eaten later. Commit with everything and you're often caught out of position if they can get back to you. If you are being capped and counter cap, you'd better hope your teammates can hold the enemy off long enough. If you want to defend your cap, you have to contend with all those chumps that play it just like any other skirmish match and charge out to daytona.

It's something you need lots and lots of practice to do well at, but above all else, you need information. You need proper scouts. You need people to tell you what is happening.

In a PUG, capping communication goes like this:

"SERIOUSLY?"
"OMG PLAY CONQUEST IF U WANNA CAP"
"YOU CAN ALWAYS UNTICK ASSAULT CHUMPS"

Assault is a tough beast, because it has two main things to think about - and in milirary circles, if a commander has more than one thing to think about, he has what we commonly refer to as; a dilemma.

I never get mad at losses in Assault. It's a hard mode for even organized teams to pull off.

So much fun though. I love the chaos.

[Mechteric]

This guy could have just as easily typed the bad intel instead of over the VOIP, it would have led to the same result. Just saying, correlation isn't the same as causation. VOIP has its benefits to teamplay.

[Novakaine]

Queek Head Taker, on 24 August 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

I'm sick of people with mics who give advice and it's the worst advice ever. If you suck and you have a mic please don't give your team advice. I turned all my chats off so i don't rage at my teams it really helps. Please Turn your mics off so you don't get your team killed. A guy on mic said they are under us. I knew they weren't. But team went under.. to find nothing... then they ambushed us and finished us off. Stupid guy on mic killed us.

I bet your'e the first guy onto of the hill in a bad John Wayne war movie screaming "There's the enemy!!!!!"
Only to get sniped by some sniper, then rolling down the hill to die a lingering death.
One guy claims how brave you were.
Another guy says naw just stupid and look a whole 67 points of damage.
Wonder how many modern battles would be won if some git on his fire team says "Ack I can't stand him."
Then turns off his comms.
Dummies.

[CDLord HHGD]

KharnZor, on 25 August 2015 - 04:51 AM, said:

Do it anyway.

Why, pray tell, would I subject myself to this torture? I gave it three matches when it first came out and gave up on it. It's not the foreign languages (love listening to German) or the misdirections, but the pure childish antics.

I may try it again, but the push suffered a severe setback with this news.

[TexAce]

Don't feed the troll.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Kiiyor, on 24 August 2015 - 06:59 PM, said:

Anyone with the stones to nut up and take command DESERVES to be listened to.

I will always follow the orders of someone who tries to command, even if the orders are so ludicrously bad that I only follow them out of a sense of sheer, morbid curiosity. You should too. If you don't want to, then mute the player, or suggest an alternative.

This guy gets it. Some of my most memorable matches have been trying a new strategy on a map that someone suggests. Is it always a win? **** no.

But seriously, for example. Alpine Peaks. That map plays out in one of two ways, every time. (link for easy reference to the following http://mwo.smurfy-ne...peaks&m=assault)

Lets fight at H9/H10 or F10/G9. Woo.

My favorite memory was someone on the other team calling the shots and they instead went to L8 hill, and L9/L10 hill. It was a hell of a lot of fun that ended up turning into a 12-10 victory for us just because we managed to push hard at the end of their line at L10.

Was it a bad strategy? Not particularly. Perhaps in hindsight instead of having a few mechs on the L8 hill I would have had them reinforcing the corner of L10. But it was unique enough to make a memory and it only happened because someone made a call.

cdlord, on 25 August 2015 - 06:42 AM, said:

Why, pray tell, would I subject myself to this torture? I gave it three matches when it first came out and gave up on it. It's not the foreign languages (love listening to German) or the misdirections, but the pure childish antics.

I may try it again, but the push suffered a severe setback with this news.

I use VOIP mostly to call out UAV's and any flankers. But as soon as someone calls out "mic check" I'll call out because as soon as you have someone to talk to in solo drops its a lot more fun in my opinion. Have several people on my friends list now because of those matches.

Bad matches seem to be 1/30 at worst for me. Maybe I'm lucky.

Edited by Lorian Sunrider, 25 August 2015 - 07:16 AM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

A terrible plan, is better than no plan at all I guess.

[Vahnn]

Queek Head Taker, on 24 August 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

Awwww you guys sound like newbs who gave advice over mic and got their teams killed.

At this point everyone should have stopped replying to this thread.

[CDLord HHGD]

Lorian Sunrider, on 25 August 2015 - 07:16 AM, said:

I use VOIP mostly to call out UAV's and any flankers. But as soon as someone calls out "mic check" I'll call out because as soon as you have someone to talk to in solo drops its a lot more fun in my opinion. Have several people on my friends list now because of those matches.

Bad matches seem to be 1/30 at worst for me. Maybe I'm lucky.

90% of the time I am on TS with my unit. We monitor the LFG queue, try to pick up stragglers.... If I feel there's benefit to my unit to have an active presence on VoIP, then we'll do it. Benefit being more coordination/wins and recruits.

You re-talked me into it. I'll test the waters again and play with it.