72 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior3671771]

"The two are both valid philosophies in their own right, but they have never and will never play well together because to one side one is a numbercrunching l33t tryhard who'd murder the intent of the rules for an advantage while the "tryhard" sees the other side as idiot traditionalists who wouldn't know a good idea if it bit them"

Yup. But my experience is its more of a linear evolution. I started gaming casual, then became a minmaxing powergamer - then realized I was ruining the game, occupying barren terrain - and became casual again.

I no longer want to work the game, I want to play it. YMMV, that's cool. I just hope one day you evolve as I have

There's some interesting research that defines "meta" as "accomplishment porn", ie. it helps losers feel as if they have accomplished something of value. I don't necessarily agree, but I do notice lots of players who's entire self-worth is tied into being the BMOC of a video game.

[Pjwned]

Steinar Bergstol, on 29 August 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

The problem isn't effective. The problem is when something is _so_ effective it basically breaks the system and the intent behind the system. This is not a new thing in gaming. It's not exclusive to Battletech or Mechwarrior by a long shot and has probably pretty much been a thing since the first cavemen competed to throw sticks or stones the farthest and one of them refused to play with anything other than the most aerodynamic stick or stone possible. It's not that one part is worse at the game than another, it's rather different opinions on what constitutes fair and sportsmanlike play. The pick-a-random-stone-off-the-ground caveman might feel one should rely only on ones own innate abilities and do well no matter the quality of the stone while the aerodynamic-or-bust caveman feels that only the best equipment should be used because anything less is limiting your natural abilities. The two are both valid philosophies in their own right, but they have never and will never play well together because to one side one is a numbercrunching l33t tryhard who'd murder the intent of the rules for an advantage while the "tryhard" sees the other side as idiot traditionalists who wouldn't know a good idea if it bit them. The problem, basically, arises when you mix the two and expect them to play with eachother in a way both will approve of.

While I do mostly agree with this, I just wanted to point out that most people fit in between knuckle draggers and tryhard meta chasers, and it's easy for those people as well to get annoyed at the meta chasers if the game turns into crap while the meta chasers rabidly defend tactics/equipment that dominate the entire battlefield in every match and eliminate other tactics/equipment that should also be viable but aren't.

Edited by Pjwned, 29 August 2015 - 12:39 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

It can also get tiresome chasing the meta. You invest a few $100 and several months into your kickass BladeSinger Mage, and then the devs nerf it or come out with something more meta, esp in games that have power creep as their business model.

While I think its fine to chase the meta, I get tired of the whining when the eventual nerf comes (it ALWAYS does). Chasing the latest build is a risk you accepted, its one of the disadvantages to being meta, like blowing your cockpit because you wanted to boat 4 ERPPCs.

[TwentyOne]

Pjwned, on 29 August 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

While I do mostly agree with this, I just wanted to point out that most people fit in between knuckle draggers and tryhard meta chasers, and it's easy for those people as well to get annoyed at the meta chasers if the game turns into crap while the meta chasers rabidly defend tactics/equipment that dominate the entire battlefield in every game and eliminate other tactics/equipment that should also be viable but isn't.

Sounds about right.

[Revis Volek]

Paigan, on 27 August 2015 - 01:03 AM, said:

As I said: intellectual defect.

Your tenuous grasp of how English is used is the only INTELLECTUAL DEFECT i see here in this thread....

Here are the definitions of META i found in one Google search....

noun, plural metae
[mee-tee] (Show IPA)
1.
(in ancient Rome) a column or post, or a group of columns or posts, placed at each end of a racetrack to mark the turning places.

adjective, Chemistry
1.
pertaining to or occupying two positions (1, 3) in the benzene ring that are separated by one carbon atom.



1.
pertaining to or noting a story, conversation, character, etc., that consciously references or comments upon its own subject or features, often in the form of parody:
A movie about making a movie is just so meta—especially when the actors criticize the acting.
2.
pertaining to or noting an abstract, high-level analysis or commentary, especially one that consciously references something of its own type. noun
3.
a consciously and playfully self-referential story, conversation, etc.:
That dialogue was an example of meta at its best.
4.
an abstract, high-level analysis or commentary:
writing a meta to explain the character’s motivation. verb (used without object)
5.
to analyze or comment on something in a meta way:
I spend more time metaing about the show than actually watching it.

noun
1.
a female given name.



That just the word by itself....which is NOT what or how we are using it. We are using its as a Prefix to the word GAME...

As a Prefix Meta means this....



1.
a prefix appearing in loanwords from Greek, with the meanings “after,” “along with,” “beyond,” “among,” “behind,” and productive in English on the Greek model:
metacarpus; metagenesis.
2.
a prefix added to the name of a subject and designating another subject that analyzes the original one but at a more abstract, higher level:
metaphilosophy; metalinguistics.
3.
a prefix added to the name of something that consciously references or comments upon its own subject or features:
a meta-painting of an artist painting a canvas.
4.
Chemistry.

• (of acids, salts, or their organic derivatives) a prefix denoting the least hydrated of a series: meta-antimonic,HSbO ₃ ;
  
  
  meta-antimonous,HSbO ₂.
  Compare ortho-, pyro-.
  
• a prefix designating the meta position in the benzene ring.
  
  
  Abbreviation: m-.
  Compare ortho-, para-¹.

OK, that should be enough for an intelligent person to admit they are wrong about this....I have seen this before though. The Prefix of a word is very often NOT the word by itself....not always but often.

Edited by DarthRevis, 29 August 2015 - 12:35 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

DarthRevis, on 29 August 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

*snip*

Right... yes, you are correct here.

It doesn't matter, because the term has been co-opted to mean other things within other groups.

You know, kinda like how I think it's Baka means Idiot in japanese, but cow in spanish? Fandoms have their own language that co-opts things and changes their meaning.

For instance, to the normal person "Shipping" means "To Ship freight" or "To transport cargo from one place to another, the term originating by the means of transporting said goods via ship."
To fandom's Shipping is short for "relationship-ing" or pairing characters together.

See how this works yet?

[Satan n stuff]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 29 August 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

There was cheese in BattleTech. Far more cheese in BT if you were IS. With IS, you could game BV during multi-board operations and make an entire 1/4 of your forces into artillery, 1/8 into aero, 1/8 into VTOL, 1/8 into hover APCs, 1/8 into anti-infantry infantry, and 1/4 into anti-vehicular infantry and play by double blind rules. Clans usually had no chance because your infantry would spot for your artillery. Their mechs would never see your infantry because when they got closer to your infantry, your hover APCs would move your infantry spotters away from the LOS of clan mechs while your artillery off the board would hammer the clan mechs. Usually by the time your artillery was bingo on ammo, your full lance of aero, full lance of VTOLs, full lance of APCs, and your company or two of infantry were almost always at 100% strength while the entire clan force was crippled, maimed, and nearly destroyed making for easy pickings.

I tried playing nothing but infantry and battle armor once in Megamek and ended up with several dozen units versus a single IS mech lance with matching BV. The mechs predictably got their asses kicked.

[Kh0rn]

[Revis Volek]

Flash Frame, on 29 August 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

Right... yes, you are correct here.

It doesn't matter, because the term has been co-opted to mean other things within other groups.

You know, kinda like how I think it's Baka means Idiot in japanese, but cow in spanish? Fandoms have their own language that co-opts things and changes their meaning.

For instance, to the normal person "Shipping" means "To Ship freight" or "To transport cargo from one place to another, the term originating by the means of transporting said goods via ship."
To fandom's Shipping is short for "relationship-ing" or pairing characters together.

See how this works yet?

Yea i know, i dont think others do.

Hence why i put what it meant in chemistry, which doesn't mean the same thing to you if you are not a chemist.


English and words are funny....

[Steinar Bergstol]

Fenrisulvyn, on 29 August 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

I no longer want to work the game, I want to play it. YMMV, that's cool. I just hope one day you evolve as I have

Oh, I think you misunderstand me. I'm probably among the least tryhard people you'll ever meet. I personally would prefer the mechlab was ripped right out of the game and everyone had to play stock mechs and if you ever read any of my past posts on that subject you'd see I've never made a secret of that. You won't see me on Mount Tryhard anytime soon. I was there twenty years ago and I don't care to make the trek again.

[bad arcade kitty]

Kh0rn, on 29 August 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

an adorable vid
i recall i saw the bunny hopping timber from 38th second as a gif on the forum, but then i couldn't find that gif again ><

[pbiggz]

lol this thread

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

pbiggz, on 29 August 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

lol this thread

It reminds me of why I'm glad neither the meta chasers or TT chasers are developing this game.