93 replies to this topic

[BattleBunny]

Kodyn, on 01 September 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

I've seen Bunny on 2-3 matches over the past couple of weeks in group, with maybe one member of our group even coming anywhere close to Bunny's Tier.

No offense Bunny, but they put in too many valves, and group is still going to be slow, and empty, because people like me shouldn't be facing people like you, and when it happens too often in a row, we tend to give up on group queue for a bit.

Those 2-3 times were probably the only ones i've played cause I gave up after the long searches
I think everybody should face everybody else. That way the chances of running into the same guys is minimal and I wont bother you to much...and I get to shoot things instead of waiting forever.

This really is a weird game. It took me 18 months of heavy gaming to get where I am. And now I am no longer allowed into the group queue because of it.

[Rhaythe]

KHETTI, on 01 September 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

Clearly its time to drop the group queue altogether.

In favor of what? 12 mans versus PUGs again?

[CapnKirk13]

Amsro, on 01 September 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

From all the posts I see about PSR and wait times it seems very connected to Group Que.

Perhaps try taking a different class mech? Make sure everyone in the group is in something different?

I just alt+tab when searching for a game. But I typically solo play these days. So it isn't a very long wait.

I knew I should've edited my original post...Yes we looked at the ratio of mech classes on the servers and yes we adjusted and still no luck. Also, yes...solo seems to be fine, we're talking group queue.

Shredhead, on 01 September 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

I'm not sarcastic. I know you BattleBunny, we play each other enough, so I assume you are about tier 2. Tier 5 players are protected now from us having not really challenging games against them so they don't stop playing out of frustration. I also expect the player count at this time to be quiet low because it really is inbetween all the prime times. That adds up to you not finding matches.
PGI obviously valued low tier player's experience and protection higher than some high tier player's frustration about not finding a match. I find that ok. Just wait an hour, then EU prime begins and you'll get matches. In the mean time you could play something else, or do something productive

I understand what you're saying and agree as to PGI's decision to "protect" new players (and BTW I think the new Academy rocks and will really help them if/when implimented) but I always play the same 2 or so hrs in the morning and, unless worldwide sleeping habits have changed, the only change has been PSR/matchmaker and it sucks.

[Kodyn]

It's a really tough call to make, for me, being honest.

I came up in EVE online, where anyone can PvP anyone at any time. You can be brand new, have just sunk some money into the game, shiny new ship, etc, and get blasted out of space the second you undock by a bored bittervet goon who's been playing for 10 years and has nothing to do but gank noobs.

EVE's community is about as unhealthy as can be at this point, and the game is really going downhill, especially with games like SC and E:D on the horizon. I enjoyed my own 10 years or so of play time with it, but I wouldn't call anything about it fair, or balanced.

In MWO, I thoroughly enjoy dropping with those that are better than I am, so when I die, I can spectate them and learn. I've certainly seen my fair share of stomps from both sides, both in solo and group. I don't mind losing to guys like you and Juju, Bunny, but when you're in group with a 3-8, and run into an 8-12 of 228, -MS-, or any of the major clan units, you know you're about to be ground into a mech-pulp by perfectly practiced focus fire, coming from meta clan mechs each with enough alpha to have done the job solo. It's rarely fun.

Like I said before, a really tough system to balance, and I certainly don't have the answers :/

Edited by Kodyn, 01 September 2015 - 08:49 AM.

[KHETTI]

Rhaythe, on 01 September 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:

In favor of what? 12 mans versus PUGs again?

12mans v pugs nope, just no group queue whats so ever, lets face it, grouping has always had the smallest percentage of the player population.
The vast majority of steam users who try this, if any, will go solo.

[BattleBunny]

Giving players a checkbox that says "allow to drop solo into the group queue" would be a step towards reducing wait times.
Voluntary solo puggies in the group queue would give the matchmaker more building blocks to work with.

Somebody in another thread had the idea to make it even numbers only. so groups of 2-4-6-8-10-12. I am no programmer but I suspect this might also reduce search times,

But what I really would like to see is just release valves after 3 minutes or so. Any search time over 5 minutes is not acceptable and the crazy 10, 15 , or even freaking 30 minute waits are rediculous.

These waits didnt exist before this new system was implemented. I hope they reverse the system for the group queue completely.

Solo queue is working fine with the new system. Group queue is not.

Edited by BattleBunny, 01 September 2015 - 08:53 AM.

[Rhaythe]

KHETTI, on 01 September 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:

12mans v pugs nope, just no group queue whats so ever, lets face it, grouping has always had the smallest percentage of the player population.
The vast majority of steam users who try this, if any, will go solo.

I'll have to disagree with you on this one. PUGs will always be the number 1 population by default, yeah. But if you disable dropping with friends in a modern PC game... that's asking for trouble from a very vocal population.

[Kodyn]

BattleBunny, on 01 September 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Solo queue is working fine with the new system. Group queue does not.

This is an important point. It does seem that the general consensus is that solo queue games have actually increased in quality for many people, and wait times are acceptable, but group is where the real issue is. I do think that they need entirely different systems for each.

[CapnKirk13]

Kodyn, on 01 September 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

It's a really tough call to make, for me, being honest.

I came up in EVE online, where anyone can PvP anyone at any time. You can be brand new, have just sunk some money into the game, shiny new ship, etc, and get blasted out of space the second you undock by a bored bittervet goon who's been playing for 10 years and has nothing to do but gank noobs.

EVE's community is about as unhealthy as can be at this point, and the game is really going downhill, especially with games like SC and E:D on the horizon. I enjoyed my own 10 years or so of play time with it, but I wouldn't call anything about it fair, or balanced.

In MWO, I thoroughly enjoy dropping with those that are better than I am, so when I die, I can spectate them and learn. I've certainly seen my fair share of stomps from both sides, both in solo and group. I don't mind losing to guys like you and Juju, Bunny, but when you're in group with a 3-8, and run into an 8-12 of 228, -MS-, or any of the major clan units, you know you're about to be ground into a mech-pulp by perfectly practiced focus fire, coming from meta clan mechs each with enough alpha to have done the job solo. It's rarely fun.

Like I said before, a really tough system to balance, and I certainly don't have the answers :/

Damn I miss Eve Online. I agree that I would rather be in a match getting my ass-kicked and possibly learning something at the same time than not have a match at all.

[Solahma]

Rhaythe, on 01 September 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

That's coding for you. You may only choose 2 of the three options below:

* Make Games Quickly
* Make Game Modes Optional
* Make Games Competitive

Never all 3.

The primary reason they should split the queue into a Competitive/High Restriction queue and a Casual/Low Restriction queue.

[BattleBunny]

Solahma, on 01 September 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

The primary reason they should split the queue into a Competitive/High Restriction queue and a Casual/Low Restriction queue.

I dont see how this would be realized. If the search times in the Competitive/High Restriction brackets are similar to what some of us are experiencing now, I dont think many people will play in it.

I think the current system and its results are a good indication that splitting up the community in tiers or brackets is not working out well when dealing with group queue

Edited by BattleBunny, 01 September 2015 - 09:01 AM.

[Amsro]

Rhaythe, on 01 September 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

I'll have to disagree with you on this one. PUGs will always be the number 1 population by default, yeah. But if you disable dropping with friends in a modern PC game... that's asking for trouble from a very vocal population.

True but shouldn't that be what "Community Warfare" is for.

Regular drop for solo only and CW for groups only. Lets be real solo's in CW tend to fail and Groups in regular que can't find matches.

Seems like the obvious fix to me.

Edit; ( I do understand that some groups do not like the current CW, but that is a different topic all together.)

Edited by Amsro, 01 September 2015 - 09:01 AM.

[Coolant]

wait times are really bad. I usually do something else while waiting, but should we really have to?

[MongoMic]

Mongo likes candy..
Mongo no like wait times....

[Rhaythe]

Amsro, on 01 September 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

True but shouldn't that be what "Community Warfare" is for.

Regular drop for solo only and CW for groups only. Lets be real solo's in CW tend to fail and Groups in regular que can't find matches.

Seems like the obvious fix to me.

Edit; ( I do understand that some groups do not like the current CW, but that is a different topic all together.)

That might be a little more feasible once CW has more game modes available. The 4v4 "scouting" missions would be great for that.

[cSand]

This is direct paste of a text last night from my buddy who I play with all the time and pretty much sums up the last 2 weeks of play (we mainly get to play on weeknights, and we play in a small group of 2-3):

Quote

Yo. So I was surfin mwo forums regarfing tiers and mm. Saw you posted a couple recently. So I did a test. started my new acct. New username/emaIl addy whole bIt. and here I am already being matched against top tiered players in solo q with all match types and servers checked. Wtf is that. Populations can't be that low.

There was a cpl matches noob filled but this is horses**t. Here I am rockin trial mechs vs top tier a**holes

I can vouch for this, so can my brother, so can loads of the folks we used to play with all the time.

The thing is though on the weekends when the population is higher, the matches are much better. So more population will mean better games. But I mean, we're trying to play 9PM PST on a weeknight, so how low can the population be at that time? And we're getting the same bunch of players regardless of where we stand Tier wise, solo or group queue.

Solo only non-CW games isn't the answer. We play in a small group and frankly we don'twant to play CW, but at the same team being matched up against 12 mans and tryahrd steamroll groups is no fun either.

The new tutorial isn't gonna do sh*t if your new players are being matched up withhigh level players. Especially in the group queue. And if that's happening, your new players are gonna peace out real quick. Never ending cycle here and like Solahma said you need a comp queue seperate from the others. But with such a low population then the match wait time gets even longer, and it's already pretty goddamn dire.

Here's hoping Steam will result in a huge influx of players and things will work themselves out...

Edited by cSand, 01 September 2015 - 09:21 AM.

[BattleBunny]

When I started playing over a year ago, I was one of the new puggies out there. The LORDS were still big and strong back then and they would form big teams in the group queue and clean house. When we met them with my group of newbie friends we knew what was going to happen. Because it happened maybe once every 15-20 games. So once or twice an evening depending on how long we would play for, we would be whiped out in 3 minutes flat by them. And there were a few other teams out there that did the same to us. Stompy group queue is stompy.

Fun? meh.
Did it kill the evening? no.
With the new system for the group queue the wait times DO kill the evening.
(Also seeing the same faces every match is somewhat boring. We might as well start a lobby.)

I understand the concern for new players and their experience. I've been through it. It was pretty fun despite being stomped on frequently.

Quote

Here's hoping Steam will result in a huge influx of players and things will work themselves out...

Salty comment: Maybe we should tell those new players that if they invest heavily in this game, play it a lot and play it well, they are no longer allowed to play it.

Edited by BattleBunny, 01 September 2015 - 09:35 AM.

[CapnKirk13]

BattleBunny, on 01 September 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

When I started playing over a year ago, I was one of the new puggies out there. The LORDS were still big and strong back then and they would form big teams in the group queue and clean house. When we met them with my group of newbie friends we knew what was going to happen. Because it happened maybe once every 15-20 games. So once or twice an evening depending on how long we would play for, we would be whiped out in 3 minutes flat by them. And there were a few other teams out there that did the same to us. Stompy group queue is stompy.

Fun? meh.
Did it kill the evening? no.
With the new system for the group queue the wait times DO kill the evening.

I understand the concern for new players and their experience. I've been through it. It was pretty fun despite being stomped on frequently.

Salty comment: Maybe we should tell those new players that if they invest heavily in this game, play it a lot and play it well, they are no longer allowed to play it.

I agree...been stomped by LORDS many times but I tried to learn something each time and it was more fun than no matches at all.

[BattleBunny]

I always thought it was pretty exciting really

"oh noes its them again! lets kill at least one of them this time dammit!"

[Cyberiad]

IMO better matchmaking & game mode choices make the game better and it would be a step backwards if we remove those features. If finding games is too slow you shouldn't blame these features and instead blame the small playerbase which IMO is limited by the company's choice of having a terrible f2p model. Most people I've tried to introduce to this game like the gameplay but as soon as they realise that they can't get more than 4 mechs without paying, quit. Some will argue that that CW & events may give you mechbays for free but these are not even in the minds of a new player and won't effect their decision to quit. What MWO needs is to remove the mechbay limit for free players. Some of you might argue that mechbays are cheap and everyone should just buy them. What you don't understand is that most people, when they play a game labeled as "free to play" will absolutely refuse to pay. And since there are many other free to play games which allow for unlimited progression for a free player, MWO will seem completely unplayable in this regard.

As someone who did an analysis of free 2 play games on youtube stated, you should enjoy paying for things in f2p games, not feel forced to. In MWO with regards to mechbays, you are forced to buy mechbays if you want more mechs, this is a purchase most would feel forced to make, instead of something they naturally want to make.

Edited by Silicon Life, 01 September 2015 - 10:01 AM.