167 replies to this topic

[Aresye]

Lightfoot, on 03 September 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

It won't make any difference. It will still be as hard to hit as the Spider and Raven and the whiners will still be whining. Raven is a 35 ton though with much heavier weapons so there is no balancing here.

I'd much rather face a good ACH pilot than face a good RVN-2X pilot that can ridge poke like it's going out of style.

[Mystere]

Aresye Kerensky, on 03 September 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

I'd much rather face a good ACH pilot than face a good RVN-2X pilot that can ridge poke like it's going out of style.

Those things are so fun to leg and disarm, and then played around with.

[M4rtyr]

Screech, on 02 September 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

What is the over/under, in seconds, for the first post saying that the changes did nothing?

Also if it lands before or after the first post crying about how bad it is now.

[Appogee]

nehebkau, on 03 September 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

AND THAT IS WHATS WRONG IN THE WORLD TODAY!
Confronted with evidence from multiple sources -- much conducted in an impartial methodical manner -- the person is unwilling to change their belief because of ... ? "I don't care what your science says Jesus road a dinosaur across the red sea and that is fact because I know its true!"

Says the guy ignoring what I actually wrote, in his haste to make an ad hominem attack which not only misrepresents what I said, but also puts in quotes an off-topic irrelevant anti-Christian rant, such is his desperate effort to look smart.

(As an aside: you'd look a little smarter if you knew the difference between "road" and "rode", "it's" and "its", and that place names require capitalization. You'd also look less of an absolute hypocrite if you followed the advice in your own forum signature and read what others wrote, instead of what you'd have like them to have written to facilitate your ranting.)

I have explained - twice - that I experienced the strange damage avoidance of Cheetah's both playing in them and playing against them. It's neat that you have a video. But your video doesn't erase the evidence of my own eyes and experiences, playing in and against Cheetahs (including incidentally marvelling at some of my own post-match videos).

I didn't come to a point of view on Cheetahs because I heard people say they were broken or because I watched a video of someone else shooting at one. I came to my point of view after comparing my actual experiences to the literally thousands of matches I've played in every other Light Mech that exists in this game.

Perhaps "WHATS (sic) WRONG IN THE WORLD TODAY" is that people like you are in such a hurry to put other people down, that you don't even stop for a minute to consider what they told you, or whether it may have some legitimacy. You know, just like your forum signature states.

Now, stop wasting my time. PGI will nerf the Cheetah, as they should. We'll all keep playing in it, and no doubt we'll be doing well in it. It's good that the Clans have a Light with the same strength as the Firestarter.

Edited by Appogee, 03 September 2015 - 02:12 PM.

[Mystere]

Appogee, on 03 September 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

I said I had experienced the problems with Cheetah's both playing them and playing against them. It's neat that you have a video and an opinion. But your video doesn't erase the evidence of my own eyes and experiences, playing in and against Cheetahs (including incidentally marvelling at some of my own post-match videos).

I didn't come to a point of view on Cheetahs because I heard people say they were broken. I came to that point of view after comparing my actual experiences to the literally thousands of matches I've played in every other Light Mech that exists in this game.

And some people are saying that documented evidence is better than anecdotes. The problem with the latter is that (1) your eyes might be deceiving you, and (2) it could be an HSR problem and not directly with the ACH itself.

[Appogee]

Mystere, on 03 September 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

And some people are saying that documented evidence is better than anecdotes. The problem with the latter is that (1) your eyes might be deceiving you, and (2) it could be an HSR problem and not directly with the ACH itself.

I'd usually agree with them. But in any case, I'm saying "fine, believe what you want to".

By the way, if I went to the effort of providing a video, which showed me hitting a stationary shut down Arctic Cheetah dead square in the center torso, with 3LPLs, and it taking no damage ... nothing would change. Someone would just say "oh that must have been a hitreg problem". And if I posted the video of the match where I soloed 6 remaining enemy Mechs in my Cheetah, basically running through and around them, taking almost no damage, and killing them one by one, someone would just say "hitreg problem" and "enemy couldn't aim" and again, nothing would change.

And if I provided videos of these things strangely not happening when I play in a FS9, someone would just say "oh but in that match the hitreg problem didn't occur". And again, nothing would change.

So, I'm not going to waste time posting videos, and noone will need to waste time explaining them away. You guys are convinced Cheetah's hitboxes aren't broken. Cool. Believe what you want. I don't mind. Maybe you're right and the mystery of my 200+ matches in Cheetahs and countless more against them is just a bizarre cosmological X-File of hitreg that coincidentally comes and goes with me getting into and out of Cheetahs.

I don't feel compelled to change anyone's mind. Because, even PGI knows the Cheetah is OP. As do countless others. So they're going to nerf it - and that's all I ever suggested was required. And who knows, perhaps one day, as was the documented case with other Mechs PGI has previously released, they'll suddenly discover some gap or other irregularity gotcha in the hitboxes, where shots of a certain velocity or angle or type don't register in the way they should.

In the meantime, I'll just keep shooting for the legs. And when I'm short of CBills, I'll jump in my Cheetah and pull fantastic scores because ... cosmologically coincidental time warp into which damage vanishes, apparently. Huzzah!

Edited by Appogee, 03 September 2015 - 02:33 PM.

[Adiuvo]

Appogee, on 03 September 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

I'd usually agree with them. But in any case, I'm saying "fine, believe what you want to".

By the way, if I went to the effort of providing a video, which showed me hitting a stationary shut down Arctic Cheetah dead square in the center torso, with 3LPLs, and it taking no damage ... nothing would change. Someone would just say "oh that must have been a hitreg problem". And if I posted the video of the match where I soloed 6 remaining enemy Mechs in my Cheetah, basically running through and around them, taking almost no damage, and killing them one by one, someone would just say "hitreg problem" and "enemy couldn't aim" and again, nothing would change.

And if I provided videos of these things strangely not happening when I play in a FS9, someone would just say "oh but in that match the hitreg problem didn't occur". And again, nothing would change

If your results are reproducable then there wouldn't be any arguments against them. If they're not, well, yeah.

When the Spider had a hole in the CT, there was a video released that proved it had a hole in the CT. Everyone could reproduce it. The location was known and documented. When the Raven had broken hitboxes, the method to get them to break was known, demonstrated, and repeated. When the Hellbringer had a broken CT, the same thing happened.

This hasn't happened for the Firestarter or the Arctic Cheetah. Instead the videos that come out as 'proof' either demonstrate instances of no mechs registering proper damage or flat out poor aim.

[Appogee]

Adiuvo, on 03 September 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

This hasn't happened for the Firestarter or the Arctic Cheetah. Instead the videos that come out as 'proof' either demonstrate instances of no mechs registering proper damage or flat out poor aim.

I understand. And I continue to be fine for my anecdotes to be discounted, because I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Artic cheeta has to many of these.

[Mystere]

Mister D, on 03 September 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

Artic cheeta has to many of these.

Sheesh! It's 2015! Get on with the times:

Edited by Mystere, 03 September 2015 - 04:12 PM.

[topgun505]

Shrugs.

They either give it a moderate nerf. In which case you will see some people bail and switch back to Firestarters, and some stick with the ARH.

or.

It gets slammed with a baseball bat and all light pilots switch back to Firestarters (and the occasional Pirate's Bane for those wanting ECM).

At which point you see the QQ resume regarding the FSR being OP

and the cycle continues.

Nothing to see here, move along.

[Yokaiko]

Three posts below this thread.
Three

"Firestarter is OP"

[Juodas Varnas]

Yokaiko, on 03 September 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

Three posts below this thread.
Three

"Firestarter is OP"

Because it was made in response to these threads?

Not saying it isn't valid, though.
Firestarter too, could lose all of its quirks.

[Sarlic]

Mystere, on 03 September 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Again, provide evidence or stop spreading such nonsense. Mcgral18 has a video showing the ACH's tight hit boxes. Even Russ says so. Do you have one that says otherwise?

Sheesh! PGI does something right for once (i.e. ACH hit boxes mirrors visual appearance) and people complain even more about it. <smh>

Oh come on man.

It's way off in speaking of balance*

Months prior the release of disussing builds, rumours, hardpoints and information we all knew that this little gem would change things. Big time in terms of gameplay.

So when the ACH was announced, people immediately started to theorycrafting with the information available. With all this high standards (or should i say powercreeping at his finest) and great information that this little gem was going to be about the size and shape of a firestarter.

It was already looking extremely good on paper. Breakthrough barrier speed, ECM, high firepower and access to clan tech. Everyone rocketeered and praised the little gem out of the sky before PGI launched.

A possible solution that PGI could have done right off the bat IF they would have tested it properly is by giving it bigger hitboxes to compensate for HSR, ping affect and more. PGI didn't do it and gave it quirks and super tiny hitboxes instead. Such a mindfuck.

Now we have these people who are defending a chassis who are obviously pointing out to players to learn to aim or whatever. Fact is that alot of people have a valid reason to see this mech as paywalled and frankly it have proven my point when PGI announced that this gem gets nerfed. Do i personally see it as paywalled? It's sure a questionable f*ckup on their end. Totally justified and for what's worth this is a thing PGI could have seen from day 1 with a reasonable solution or fix if it wasnt for people complaining about it. The thing is almost unbeatable in a fully loaded server with continous HSR problems despite the so called fix. But dem legz.. aim for dem legszz..!

Which comes to the point that either PGI didnt know what they are doing or that PGI did knew this was off board/limits. Because quirks were already known at certain point and it was not applied after release. Which that said the video of Mcgral just makes my point stronger. Paywalled? You decide.

Just like the Firestarter. A lot of hardpoints, ECM and good well scaled hitboxes (who knew?!) makes this or better said ANY light extremely good and practically obsolete all other lights instantly. PGI gave the ACH better quirks than the whole 'small steps' clan pass quirk back then.

I gave up discussing with people who just defend this mech because clearly most of them do not know what they are talking about aside 'I paid for it, it's fine.' Would you still say the same for the underpowered release of the Grasshopper and Executioner? No, ofcourse not.

The ultimate solution would be a complete overhaul (which i hope PGI is doing it for the rebalance is to make all lights at the same or slight less level as the ACH, but then without rediculous quirks and so on to make other lights actually worth getting them instead of one or two dominating lights) to have some drawbacks but maintaining the fear of a light pilot.

Am i frustated that people buy the mechs? No.
Am i dissappointed in that some people who are defending this mech while it's so obvious that's out of line. Yes.
Am i frustated that PGI didnt saw this coming from miles ahead and didnt compensate at all? Hell yes.

The question remains what will get nerfed. If it's for the structure buffs and energy then it's justified because without the buffs it's still hands down one of the best light mechs in-game.

I just leave it here, and frankly i am highly questioning PGI view of mech 'balance' we expect to hit later this month.

(Not a attack to you, Mystere, please dont feel offended!)

I ain't going to reply anymore, but this had to be said.

Edited by Sarlic, 04 September 2015 - 12:44 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Juodas Varnas, on 03 September 2015 - 10:01 PM, said:

Because it was made in response to these threads?

Not saying it isn't valid, though.
Firestarter too, could lose all of its quirks.

As a non-ACH owner

Edited by Yokaiko, 04 September 2015 - 12:33 AM.

[NextGame]

guess id better hurry up and level them:P

[C E Dwyer]

This Artic Cheater pilot isn't crying, thinks its about damn time.

[Mazzyplz]

Lunatech, on 02 September 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

Good light pilots will continue to do well in the ACH. Bads will continue to whine about the ACH.

now that the mech has been nerfed, they will do even better!
wait wut?....

[Mazzyplz]

FupDup, on 02 September 2015 - 07:00 PM, said:

And yet they haven't nerfed the Dire Wolf or Hellbringer, and have only slap on the wrist nerfs to the Timber Wolf and Storm Crow...

i dont think dwf or hbr need nerfs? hbr is maybe the best clan mech, but some mech has to be.

[Duke Nedo]

Sarlic, on 04 September 2015 - 12:29 AM, said:

Am i frustated that people buy the mechs? No.
Am i dissappointed in that some people who are defending this mech while it's so obvious that's out of line. Yes.
Am i frustated that PGI didnt saw this coming from miles ahead and didnt compensate at all? Hell yes.

This... is the scary bit. Shipping the ACH with good quirks is just nuts. Not sure if I hope it was on purpose or not...