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Unhappy With Psr. :-(


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#41 Catra Lanis

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 02:42 AM

View PostChados, on 03 September 2015 - 02:13 AM, said:

Let me give you all the view from the lowest tier of the Underhive. And I know I'm one of the worst, my k/d ratio is 0.20 and my won-loss numbers are 180-304.

(Insert sound of putting steering wheel aside)

What I'm seeing is inconsistency. I seem to get a lot of unit tags like -MS- and SJR that I didn't see before in the old Elo days. I've heard that those are top tier guilds, and I'm Tier 5 clearly, so either the tip top of Mount Tryhard isn't what were being sold or more likely, PSR makes mistakes and loads T5 with T1 when it can't find enough matches. And usually, they're all on the other side. The more of them I see (and sometimes it is a lot), on the other side, the more likely it is that the game's going to be a thirty-second affair for me where I maybe get off one shot off before I get instagibbed. My average damage over the last three nights has dropped from 300-400 to 30-70. I still can manage a game where I rack up double digit assists and 400 damage but those are few and far between, most solo queue matches are drop, immediately get killed by someone I can't see, wash, rinse, repeat.

Three nights ago, it was ROFLstomp after ROFLstomp and I couldn't do anything right. Two nights ago, I was a Goddess of War packing four large lasers of doom, that could do no wrong and able to notch 150-200 damage per drop. I had one run in Crimson Strait with ten assists and a kill-in a Jester! For you guys, that's a subpar game. For me, that's a match for the ages! I actually was stupid enough to think that I was getting it. Last night, back to getting bumrushed and seal-clubbed every single time I queued up like an episode of the Keystone Kops. I was getting target-priority selected over Dire Wolves standing right next to me and focused down ten seconds after first contact. I didn't know I was that much of a threat, but I guess someone thinks I am!

PSR really is a mixed bag. Sometimes I get the best games ever. Most of the time it's the worst ever and God knows why I keep trying...but it's like gambling, even though the house always wins you keep hoping you get three bars in a row this time. But this idea that top tier players don't get to seal-club in the Underhive anymore simply is untrue. It happens a lot. It happened to me all night long last night.


That is my experience too, I do not know which groups are regared as good but now often 2/3 of the team have a unit tag, granted it is not a sure indicator of quality but yes it has increased, the percentage of people in a unit that is.

Edited by Catra Lanis, 03 September 2015 - 02:49 AM.


#42 kesmai

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 03:13 AM

Since psr my win/loss and my k/d is constantly climbing while leveling mechs.(i always level mechs to mastery and shelve them except for cw). Something is wrong, because after 15000+ drops (not counting cw) i thought i'm pretty bad.

#43 EekaBlitzer

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 03:39 AM

I'm still seeing far more one sided stomps since PSR was introduced. Its getting a bit stale.

#44 TWIAFU

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:03 AM

View Postkesmai, on 03 September 2015 - 03:13 AM, said:

Since psr my win/loss and my k/d is constantly climbing while leveling mechs.(i always level mechs to mastery and shelve them except for cw). Something is wrong, because after 15000+ drops (not counting cw) i thought i'm pretty bad.



I can confirm your thoughts Kes, you are bad.

Your bad and you wear pants.

:)

#45 Wyest

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:03 AM

View PostEekaBlitzer, on 03 September 2015 - 03:39 AM, said:

I'm still seeing far more one sided stomps since PSR was introduced. Its getting a bit stale.


Stomps don't stop because the player levels are even. They actually happen more if the teams are balanced, because there's no-one to pickup your slack when you lose someone so it snowballs hard. If the teams are UNbalanced, Joe T1 can compensate for Jim T5 getting wasted...

That said, PSR's been fine for me. I'm back seeing the regular faces, including a few of the better players I see from the group queue, and I don't often get to go seal clubbing or whatever, so I'm generally fighting on a pretty even field. Far as I can tell, working as intended.

That, or I'm the seal on the T1/T2 queue...

Edited by Wyest, 03 September 2015 - 04:04 AM.


#46 TWIAFU

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:10 AM

View PostEekaBlitzer, on 03 September 2015 - 03:39 AM, said:

I'm still seeing far more one sided stomps since PSR was introduced. Its getting a bit stale.



That is NOT because of PSR, that is because your side is not or just stopped working as a TEAM.

The loading screen tips are more true now then it ever was!

Teamwork = Victory and Use Teamwork to achieve overwhelming victory.

#47 kesmai

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:11 AM

Thought about getting skirts. I decided not to go full Jenner though.




#1000 grats twiafu
#

Edited by kesmai, 03 September 2015 - 04:17 AM.


#48 Alistair Winter

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:11 AM

If you're regularly getting lots of kills and a WLR significantly higher than 1.0 then you're playing against people who aren't as good as you. I'm sure it was fun for you to get a lot of kills and damage, because your Elo didn't properly reflect your skill level or because matchmaker couldn't find enough players at your level, but it gave you a very high match score over time which probably resulted in a Tier 1 or Tier 2 ranking with PSR. And now you're forced to play against other high tier players. Some of them already had high Elo and are used to facing good opponents. Some of them are like you - good stats and low Elo, and they're suddenly thrown in with the sharks.

If it's any consolation to you, think of it as karma for all those hundreds of matches when you were playing against people beneath your skill level who couldn't get more than 2 kills in a match because they were facing players like you.

#49 mogs01gt

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:11 AM

View PostWeaselball, on 02 September 2015 - 09:09 PM, said:

Just wanted to hop in and vent my frustrations with the new PSR system... because I know the forums care about my feelings, and I'm sure you guys will be very supportive and offer me some comforting advice without any flaming at all.I'm by no means an amazing pilot. I wouldn't even say I'm a good pilot. But prior to the PSR system I was having matches with a regular 1.5+ KDR in my most played Mechs, the Zeus. Sure I'd have a game or two where I'd die with less than 200 damage and no kills, but they'd usually be offset by games with 700+ damage, 3+ kills, etc. Again, I'm not here to toot my own horn, I don't consider myself an ace pilot, but back with the old ELO system I was actually having a fun time, both in solo and in the queue...
...and then PSR came.
It's rare for me to get 2 kills in a game now and survive. I struggle to hit 600 damage. I haven't had a single game with more than 700 damage, or 4+ kills. Most of the time I'm getting 0 kills, a half dozen or so assists, and about 400ish damage... solo queue. It's a pretty significant change over what I was playing just 2 or so weeks ago.And then there's group queue. I almost don't want to play this game anymore in a group. Not even with just another buddy. It's just stomp after stomp, with maybe 1 pretty good, solid close game every 10 stomps or so.KDR in mechs is tanking hard... which might be fine? Who knows, maybe with the old ELO system I was constantly dropping against new players. It's possible I suppose. I dunno. I'd guess I'm probably T3, and as such I'm getting in games up against T1 players sporting hardcore meta builds. I just want to go back to having the same amount of fun I had playing with the old ELO system.

I am in the exactly the same boat man!! The only time matches play well for me is if I stick to my meta TBR because well meta.

Edited by mogs01gt, 03 September 2015 - 04:12 AM.


#50 Torric

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:32 AM

What i really don't like about psr is that is really just ONE number. The same for every single mech and the same between group queue and solo queue?

How absolutely dumb is that?

It is PGI-dumb, i know... but now whenever you change from more competitive mechs to less competitive ones or vice versa, you get placed in the wrong spot player skill wise. I am a pretty terrible light pilot, but i liked to derp around in my LCT-1V, and have it not affect my more solid medium/heavy performance.
And you have ppl who get their PSR artificially inflated from the group queue, because for some also absolutely dumb reason, "winning" increases your match score substantially, and have it bleed over into the solo queue...

Edited by Torric, 03 September 2015 - 04:46 AM.


#51 Elizander

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 06:18 AM

View PostWyest, on 03 September 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:


Stomps don't stop because the player levels are even. They actually happen more if the teams are balanced, because there's no-one to pickup your slack when you lose someone so it snowballs hard. If the teams are UNbalanced, Joe T1 can compensate for Jim T5 getting wasted...


I sometimes feel this way right now, even when one or two guys run off to get killed or we fall behind a little bit in numbers. I'm at least getting more than just a few games where there are lower skilled players or really uncoordinated teams to the point that I'm a little confident that we can make up for a couple of baddies if I don't feel like derping and die early and I'm not in a trial or non-elite mech.

There are games where I get the baby seal team and we all get clubbed but it happens the other way around too where I get to blow 10 tons of UAC5 ammo and not die.

It can also happen that the good players are not supported properly and get killed early so there's no one good enough left to make the comeback.

#52 Amsro

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 06:27 AM

View PostSarlic, on 02 September 2015 - 11:54 PM, said:

But still dealing with NASCAR, leaving Assaults, ECM runners and 12 random guys with their own target fixation.

Some behaviour will never change, which is unfortunate.

Ofcourse i have these losing matches sub par 200 damage matches aswell.. But so do have 400-600 and 600-900. Many stomps and a few wins. And finally few good close matches.

Everbody have these.


Yeah some maps just play out the same way, this is half due to drop locations.

Forest Colony for example the battle has 90% chance to take place in the h9/g9 grid location. By the time both teams regroup and advance that's where they intersect.

Maps like caustic punish those that stay still. Nascar it is for a troll roll.

Another point is the teams will go on auto pilot unless someone speaks up and takes command, only then can you have a "fresh" event on an old map.

#53 Weaselball

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:14 AM

I think perhaps my biggest "gripe" with PSR, isn't so much with PSR itself but with the MM... just like it's always been. If I'm to understand how the Tier system works (at least in solo queue, as it doesn't work at all in group), then it's broken up something like this:

T1, T2, T3 players can all get thrown into the same match.
T2, T3, T4, and T5 players can all get thrown into the same match.

The only groups that cannot fight against each other are T1 fighting T4 or T5. Does this seem a bit off to anyone else? Assuming I'm T3, why are I not JUST fighting with/against other T3 pilots? Match me against pilots of equal tier... and once I've moved to the top of that tier, put me in a match with T2 pilots. If I succeed, then move me up into that Tier. If I do horrible, drop me back down into T3. Its the same principle for most online games with tier's or brackets.

To put into an example: In Starcraft, League of Legends, Dota, or any other game I can think of with a "tier" system, you don't have platinum, gold, and silver players in the same match. You're in silver, you play ONLY silver. Once you're ready to move up after proving yourself as a good player in that bracket then you fight a game in a higher tier. Only through succeeding there do you progress. Right now in MWO I feel as if this isn't anywhere the case. There doesn't seem to be that progression. No matter your tier, you're going to be fighting people above and below your bracket.

So I guess TL;DR, PSR might be fine, but the matchmaker needs some serious work. It always has, and it was neglected with PGI's new PSR re-work.

#54 LordSkippy

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:27 AM

View PostAmsro, on 02 September 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

That just means PSR is working and you are facing people closer to your skill level.

No more mindless zombies to slaughter for the easy 700 + damage 5 kill match.


I would buy this line of thinking, if it wasn't for my personal experience with the new PSR system.

Getting matched with similarly skilled players doesn't seem to be happening!

I'd say 4:5 to 9:10 of my games in the solo queue appear to have the red team filled with reasonably skilled players. While my team is filled with butterfly chasers, rock shooters, and runs away at the first sign of a red blip on the radar.

Under Elo, I'd have a night here or there like this. Under PSR, it's been two weeks of this!

#55 Amsro

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:34 AM

View PostLordSkippy, on 03 September 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

I would buy this line of thinking, if it wasn't for my personal experience with the new PSR system.

Getting matched with similarly skilled players doesn't seem to be happening!

I'd say 4:5 to 9:10 of my games in the solo queue appear to have the red team filled with reasonably skilled players. While my team is filled with butterfly chasers, rock shooters, and runs away at the first sign of a red blip on the radar.

Under Elo, I'd have a night here or there like this. Under PSR, it's been two weeks of this!


Since Elo was tracked even if you were in group a lot of people have inflated PSR ( or lower ) then they should be, growing pains in the begging are expected.

As well I'm baffled as to why the tiers aren't divided equally, example;

-1, 2 and 3 can have matches together
-2, 3 and 4 can have matches together
-3, 4 and 5 can have matches together

As well I've noticed a trend that group que is broken. So maybe PSR is broken all together, but my matches ( about 100-150 since PSR) have all been great. Edit; they have all been solo que as well.

:ph34r:

Edited by Amsro, 03 September 2015 - 07:35 AM.


#56 Lugh

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:36 AM

View PostAmsro, on 02 September 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

That just means PSR is working and you are facing people closer to your skill level.

No more mindless zombies to slaughter for the easy 700 + damage 5 kill match.

Which just means YOU have to work harder and expect better resistance to your work to getting to those numbers.

I'm finding the new system better in more matches than not. In fact just the other day, we had a match come down to 12-11 victory with a completely Fresh King Crab coming back from a disconnect to mop up the last 3 Mechs.

I bet on him not meeting that challenge (assumption was he was on a potatoe and game would seize at contact) And he proved me wrong. Why? Because the rest of us left the things we didn't get the killing blow on, CORED. He had 3 kills, I had 3 kills (in a Summoner) and the other kills were scattered across the team with damage numbers being mostly equal across all players.

#57 LordSkippy

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:51 AM

View PostAmsro, on 03 September 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:


Since Elo was tracked even if you were in group a lot of people have inflated PSR ( or lower ) then they should be, growing pains in the begging are expected.

As well I'm baffled as to why the tiers aren't divided equally, example;

-1, 2 and 3 can have matches together
-2, 3 and 4 can have matches together
-3, 4 and 5 can have matches together

As well I've noticed a trend that group que is broken. So maybe PSR is broken all together, but my matches ( about 100-150 since PSR) have all been great. Edit; they have all been solo que as well.

:ph34r:


Does not explain the disparity in team quality between sides of 80-90% of the matches I've seen.

Do you really believe the system can manage to place almost all those with elevated PSR's one one team, while the other team has almost all players with a proper PSR?

Because that is what I've seen for two weeks.

#58 KHETTI

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 07:51 AM

View PostCharronn, on 03 September 2015 - 12:17 AM, said:

I dunno what tier I am,probably 3 but what I have noticed is if your leveling a new chassis (I'm doing the Tbolt atm) you get battered.Playing in higher tiers is unforgiving playing stock mechs.Kinda puts you off a bit when trying to master them.

Evidence** points to me being tier 3, and i to this last week have been working on the thunderbolts, but i have found the thunderbolt to be one of those mechs thats so far been a joy to level.
Are you playing to the thunderbolts strenght ie its ridiculous quirks.

#59 ShinVector

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 08:29 AM

View PostAmsro, on 03 September 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:


Since Elo was tracked even if you were in group a lot of people have inflated PSR ( or lower ) then they should be, growing pains in the begging are expected.

As well I'm baffled as to why the tiers aren't divided equally, example;

-1, 2 and 3 can have matches together
-2, 3 and 4 can have matches together
-3, 4 and 5 can have matches together

As well I've noticed a trend that group que is broken. So maybe PSR is broken all together, but my matches ( about 100-150 since PSR) have all been great. Edit; they have all been solo que as well.

:ph34r:


Might be due to actual Tier to player distribution.
Supposed to be a bell curve right ?

#60 Lily from animove

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 08:34 AM

View PostWeaselball, on 03 September 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

I think perhaps my biggest "gripe" with PSR, isn't so much with PSR itself but with the MM... just like it's always been. If I'm to understand how the Tier system works (at least in solo queue, as it doesn't work at all in group), then it's broken up something like this:

T1, T2, T3 players can all get thrown into the same match.
T2, T3, T4, and T5 players can all get thrown into the same match.

The only groups that cannot fight against each other are T1 fighting T4 or T5. Does this seem a bit off to anyone else? Assuming I'm T3, why are I not JUST fighting with/against other T3 pilots?


That is actually, what the MM is trying to do in first palce, given enough people are online and in your queue and not in grp queue or CW. But how long woul you be willign to wait for a match? 20minutes? because 15 minutes is the matchlenght and lloading + readingup and such needs to take place in worst case. And by the fact of offering a game quickly or making amtches possible at lower populated daytimes it is important to open valves to the other tiers.

Further to imporve and lern you need access to other tiers as well. You just can't throw the total newbie and bad players vs top players.

I can't wait to see the public Tiers of people, we can use this as a feedbakc and see who is in which tier. This is going to be interesting because there are probably mny T2's who should by MM never ever play vs T4 and T5 as well.

View PostLordSkippy, on 03 September 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

Does not explain the disparity in team quality between sides of 80-90% of the matches I've seen.

Do you really believe the system can manage to place almost all those with elevated PSR's one one team, while the other team has almost all players with a proper PSR?

Because that is what I've seen for two weeks.


that is just how it feels it is, becaue groupdynamic can suddenly create snowballeffects. Especially in matches where everyone is more euqly and therefore more equally important.

imagine a mtch with 2 goods on eahc side and 10 baddies. most of the time the baddies wills tupidly fight vs eahc others and the goods rakcup damage kills and mob down the baddies, then there is a close match endng between the good pilots.
But on euqlly skilled pilots one loss or 2 determine many on the balance of power.





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