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Unhappy With Psr. :-(


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#61 LordSkippy

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 09:27 AM

View PostLily from animove, on 03 September 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:


That is actually, what the MM is trying to do in first palce, given enough people are online and in your queue and not in grp queue or CW. But how long woul you be willign to wait for a match? 20minutes? because 15 minutes is the matchlenght and lloading + readingup and such needs to take place in worst case. And by the fact of offering a game quickly or making amtches possible at lower populated daytimes it is important to open valves to the other tiers.

Further to imporve and lern you need access to other tiers as well. You just can't throw the total newbie and bad players vs top players.

I can't wait to see the public Tiers of people, we can use this as a feedbakc and see who is in which tier. This is going to be interesting because there are probably mny T2's who should by MM never ever play vs T4 and T5 as well.



that is just how it feels it is, becaue groupdynamic can suddenly create snowballeffects. Especially in matches where everyone is more euqly and therefore more equally important.

imagine a mtch with 2 goods on eahc side and 10 baddies. most of the time the baddies wills tupidly fight vs eahc others and the goods rakcup damage kills and mob down the baddies, then there is a close match endng between the good pilots.
But on euqlly skilled pilots one loss or 2 determine many on the balance of power.


That is not "just how it feels".

Again, 80 to 90% of the matches I've been in since PSR went live, there has been a stark difference in skill levels between the two team in that match.

Looking at the end of round screen, it is obvious that one team had more skilled players. Maybe a one or two with a low match score and another two or three with very high match scores, but the bulk with solid match scores. While the other team has one or two with good to high match scores, a couple more with not bad scores, and the rest with scores that wouldn't have even been good under the old scoring system.

The "just how it feels" argument was also the same argument used to counter complaints about Elo as well. But the two outputs are completely different. Under Elo, I would get bad nights with bad team after bad team, but at least I would also get nights with some good teams, and nights that were a mixed bag. Under PSR it has been two weeks of bad teams every night.

Don't get me wrong, Elo has plenty of problems, especially with only taking in to account only wins and losses. PSR also, on paper, sounds like a much better solution. However, it's broken. So broken, we need to come up with a new word for how broken it is, because the English language lacks a word that captures just how truely broken it is.

Fun thing is, the first night under PSR had some really good matches. Every single night since has been one big crap fest.

#62 Lugh

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 11:00 AM

View PostLordSkippy, on 03 September 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

That is not "just how it feels".

Again, 80 to 90% of the matches I've been in since PSR went live, there has been a stark difference in skill levels between the two team in that match.

Looking at the end of round screen, it is obvious that one team had more skilled players. Maybe a one or two with a low match score and another two or three with very high match scores, but the bulk with solid match scores. While the other team has one or two with good to high match scores, a couple more with not bad scores, and the rest with scores that wouldn't have even been good under the old scoring system.

The "just how it feels" argument was also the same argument used to counter complaints about Elo as well. But the two outputs are completely different. Under Elo, I would get bad nights with bad team after bad team, but at least I would also get nights with some good teams, and nights that were a mixed bag. Under PSR it has been two weeks of bad teams every night.

Don't get me wrong, Elo has plenty of problems, especially with only taking in to account only wins and losses. PSR also, on paper, sounds like a much better solution. However, it's broken. So broken, we need to come up with a new word for how broken it is, because the English language lacks a word that captures just how truely broken it is.

Fun thing is, the first night under PSR had some really good matches. Every single night since has been one big crap fest.

So one team is doing their best to work as a team. And by the sheer circumstance of 2+ mechs working over one mech at a time, they all score more and do better.

The losing team has far fewer of those players and the match becomes lopsided as a result. How surprising.

Are you playing in the group queue? Or the solo queue? The group queue is all sorts of messed up on occasion.
But I've still seen far more 12-8, 12-6, 12-10 matches than I did under the old ELO system.

#63 LordSkippy

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 11:44 AM

View PostLugh, on 03 September 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

So one team is doing their best to work as a team. And by the sheer circumstance of 2+ mechs working over one mech at a time, they all score more and do better.

The losing team has far fewer of those players and the match becomes lopsided as a result. How surprising.

Are you playing in the group queue? Or the solo queue? The group queue is all sorts of messed up on occasion.
But I've still seen far more 12-8, 12-6, 12-10 matches than I did under the old ELO system.


Solo queue.

And again, that's not what I'm seeing. What you're describing is what I would say fits with my bad streaks under Elo.

What I'm seeing now is completely lopsided teams. One team has an even distribution of player skill, the other has an almost complete lack of skill. One team is what you would expect, couple of goods, couple of bads, most average. The other team is almost all bads, with maybe a couple of average+ players thrown in.

It is completely broken!

It's funny that people say the group queue is the broken one. I have had better luck in the group queue. The matches where one group is a comp team and the other isn't do happen. However, even if you're on the lossing end, the team still seemed to have at least tried and the loss was due to the other team being better. And the other matches without comp teams, most still have what you could actually call a team trying to put up a fight, even on a loss.

In the solo queue, 80 to 90% of the time, there is really only one team in the match.

In other words, match quality was much, much better under Elo. Giving how bad Elo was, and how much better PSR should be (on paper), something is very broken.

Edited by LordSkippy, 03 September 2015 - 11:48 AM.


#64 PaeuxP22

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 01:56 PM

Errr how has noone brought up the op's follow up which said "I'm kinda in the middle with regard to score" if your consistently in the middle of the team with regard to match score then your in precisely the right level. In an ideal world everyone would have a kdr of 1 and a w/l of 1. Expecting to maintain a kdr of 3 is kinda backwards as probably only the top few % could ever expect to achieve that. PSR isn't perfect and the scoring system certainly isn't but that level of performance isn't really sustainable

#65 EekaBlitzer

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:14 PM

"That is NOT because of PSR, that is because your side is not or just stopped working as a TEAM.

The loading screen tips are more true now then it ever was!

Teamwork = Victory and Use Teamwork to achieve overwhelming victory."

Unlike you, I was in every game that I referred to (of course). The teams were entirely unbalanced in terms of skill levels, hence the stomps. If you cannot accept that , then please at least stop posting about matches that you know nothing about.

#66 LordKnightFandragon

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Posted 13 September 2015 - 11:09 AM

IDK what this PSR is about, but dare I say, games seem to be better, or im in a tier where its not 'Reactor Online, sensors online, weapons, online, all systems Nomi...' CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!


I have played 3 games each on both my IS(which has few games but a better overall record) and clan acct which has alot more games but worsse overall record, and in the 6 games, none of the games have ended in less then 6-7 minutes. A step up from the 2-4 minute derp fests where it ends 0-12 faster then you can say "lolwtf".

A Few of the games have ended 12-3, 12-2, 12-4....but even then, it was more of some pretty obvious "why we won" scenarios, over...wtf just happened!?

In one game, just now, the other team split up, engaging us piece meal 1-3 at a time. We picked off a CDA and a TBR who went off alone and then just picked thier team apart little by little. So, no wonder it ends 12-2. Next, I think we just shot better or something. Or maybe better ground? Had them in some little corner of Tourmaline and shooting them from atleast 2 angles, and they split thier force, we picked off a LCT, TDR and a ACH who went off alone, murdered them 3 or 4 on 2. LCT got murdered like 5-1...

I guess im in a tier where people go group up more so. THere seems to be a bit more communication. People are in chat typing in enemy sighted coordinates....

So, I dare say, this PSR seems to be having some impact. That or im getting lucky...I wont know for sure until ive played more games.

EDIT: Well, played another game, 10-12 loss, the last 2 were stripped in the CT, so very close to dead. So, i think there might be something to this new PSR, matches are going a little better and lasting a fair bit longer. ITs not so much just curb stomps in either direction.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 13 September 2015 - 01:06 PM.


#67 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:20 AM

MAULER MAL-1R®
Games:14
Wins:5
Losses:9
Ave:0.56
Kills:6
Deaths:11
Ave:0.55
Damage:3,533

That's about average for me out of my Atlases. The new PSR is fine.

#68 Speedy Plysitkos

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:39 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 14 September 2015 - 03:20 AM, said:

MAULER MAL-1R®
Games:14
Wins:5
Losses:9
Ave:0.56
Kills:6
Deaths:11
Ave:0.55
Damage:3,533

That's about average for me out of my Atlases. The new PSR is fine.


I dunno how thats possible, but im getting significantly better results, in my 3 maulers, then in any other mechs I have (total 24 now).

But lets wait 8 days, and forum will be warzone.... (PSR visible)

#69 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:44 AM

View PostTitannium, on 14 September 2015 - 03:39 AM, said:

I dunno how thats possible, but im getting significantly better results, in my 3 maulers, then in any other mechs I have (total 24 now).

But lets wait 8 days, and forum will be warzone.... (PSR visible)

You are a better Mauler Pilot than me. Maybe I haven't found my weapon mix yet. ;)

#70 Speedy Plysitkos

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:48 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 14 September 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:


You are a better Mauler Pilot than me. Maybe I haven't found my weapon mix yet. ;)


Or its just only my tier (4) against your (2)... you know people play differently in tiers....

#71 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:51 AM

View PostTitannium, on 14 September 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

Or its just only my tier (4) against your (2)... you know people play differently in tiers....

Dude... No way I am tier 2! You give me way to much credit.

#72 Lily from animove

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:51 AM

View PostLordSkippy, on 03 September 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

That is not "just how it feels".

Again, 80 to 90% of the matches I've been in since PSR went live, there has been a stark difference in skill levels between the two team in that match.

Looking at the end of round screen, it is obvious that one team had more skilled players. Maybe a one or two with a low match score and another two or three with very high match scores, but the bulk with solid match scores. While the other team has one or two with good to high match scores, a couple more with not bad scores, and the rest with scores that wouldn't have even been good under the old scoring system.

The "just how it feels" argument was also the same argument used to counter complaints about Elo as well. But the two outputs are completely different. Under Elo, I would get bad nights with bad team after bad team, but at least I would also get nights with some good teams, and nights that were a mixed bag. Under PSR it has been two weeks of bad teams every night.

Don't get me wrong, Elo has plenty of problems, especially with only taking in to account only wins and losses. PSR also, on paper, sounds like a much better solution. However, it's broken. So broken, we need to come up with a new word for how broken it is, because the English language lacks a word that captures just how truely broken it is.

Fun thing is, the first night under PSR had some really good matches. Every single night since has been one big crap fest.



it still is your feeling, because when one team works better, you will piece for piece take a team apart, which means those "bad" pilots with "low score" are simply those who die early, and the ones with many are those who die late. Because damage does not equally share amogst an opponent team in many battle situations. This happens even more when one side has teamplay, where damage mechs can fall back to prevent dying early. But this is very map and location specific, or not existing when a team decides to "push". But this does not automatically relate that those Scores for these players are always like this. To know if those "bad" pilots you describe are really bad, you need many of THEIR matches to see if they constantly do bad, or simply were the "first to die" in the match you had.

Judging how the scores atthe end of a screen look like is always a bit different. sometimes its just because of noobs, soemtimes its jus because the others had the perfec countertactic, or the own team failed to properly execute a tactic. But it is not in all cases true that Scores always relate to skill. However PSR to define a playerskill is still a more accurate indicator than just winning/losing. Because to drop in PSR significantly, you will need many bad games and a solid or skilled player won't have that many of them.

Edited by Lily from animove, 14 September 2015 - 03:55 AM.


#73 Speedy Plysitkos

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 03:59 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 14 September 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:


Dude... No way I am tier 2! You give me way to much credit.


Dont be ashamed for it :)

8 days.....

#74 Rushmoar

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 04:13 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 14 September 2015 - 03:20 AM, said:

MAULER MAL-1R®
Games:14
Wins:5
Losses:9
Ave:0.56
Kills:6
Deaths:11
Ave:0.55
Damage:3,533

That's about average for me out of my Atlases. The new PSR is fine.

I'm with you here. My games are going down hill as well. Was real close to a 1.0 win/loss ratio at the start of PSR but now I'm winning only 25% to 33% of my games right now. Not sure what to do here, avoid solo que for a while. Also are there seperate PSR values for solo and Group ques?

#75 kesmai

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 04:21 AM

While levelling shc's I learned to hate psr. You can do 300-500 dmg 1-3 kills, but you can not carry in this mech. Especially when whole lances score less than you. I'm not playing the game for an abstract value i can get no conclusion about how it was calculated, i play the game to win matches. I give a s... About psr and my rating but if the matchmaker expects me to carry with unlevelled mechs or mechS I just can't get around while levelling it is straight bulldung. I would like. to see the first 10-20 matches in a new mech taken out of psr rating.

Edited by kesmai, 14 September 2015 - 04:23 AM.


#76 Sarlic

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 04:26 AM

View Postkesmai, on 14 September 2015 - 04:21 AM, said:

While levelling shc's I learned to hate psr. You can do 300-500 dmg 1-3 kills, but you can not carry in this mech. Especially when whole lances score less than you. I'm not playing the game for an abstract value i can get no conclusion about how it was calculated, i play the game to win matches. I give a s... About psr and my rating but if the matchmaker expects me to carry with unlevelled mechs or mechS I just can't get around while levelling it is straight bulldung. I would like. to see the first 10-20 matches in a new mech taken out of psr rating.

Problem is idd as soon the team collapsed like a cardhouse you are most of the times practically wasting your time shooting outnumbered mechs. Or you do damage not to your liking and end up like you said 300 range.

#77 NextGame

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 04:33 AM

View PostWeaselball, on 02 September 2015 - 09:09 PM, said:

Just wanted to hop in and vent my frustrations with the new PSR system... because I know the forums care about my feelings, and I'm sure you guys will be very supportive and offer me some comforting advice without any flaming at all.

I'm by no means an amazing pilot. I wouldn't even say I'm a good pilot. But prior to the PSR system I was having matches with a regular 1.5+ KDR in my most played Mechs, the Zeus. Sure I'd have a game or two where I'd die with less than 200 damage and no kills, but they'd usually be offset by games with 700+ damage, 3+ kills, etc. Again, I'm not here to toot my own horn, I don't consider myself an ace pilot, but back with the old ELO system I was actually having a fun time, both in solo and in the queue...

...and then PSR came.

It's rare for me to get 2 kills in a game now and survive. I struggle to hit 600 damage. I haven't had a single game with more than 700 damage, or 4+ kills. Most of the time I'm getting 0 kills, a half dozen or so assists, and about 400ish damage... solo queue. It's a pretty significant change over what I was playing just 2 or so weeks ago.

And then there's group queue. I almost don't want to play this game anymore in a group. Not even with just another buddy. It's just stomp after stomp, with maybe 1 pretty good, solid close game every 10 stomps or so.

KDR in mechs is tanking hard... which might be fine? Who knows, maybe with the old ELO system I was constantly dropping against new players. It's possible I suppose. I dunno. I'd guess I'm probably T3, and as such I'm getting in games up against T1 players sporting hardcore meta builds. I just want to go back to having the same amount of fun I had playing with the old ELO system.

Posted Image

EDIT from Page 3:

I think perhaps my biggest "gripe" with PSR, isn't so much with PSR itself but with the MM... just like it's always been. If I'm to understand how the Tier system works (at least in solo queue, as it doesn't work at all in group), then it's broken up something like this:

T1, T2, T3 players can all get thrown into the same match.
T2, T3, T4, and T5 players can all get thrown into the same match.

The only groups that cannot fight against each other are T1 fighting T4 or T5. Does this seem a bit off to anyone else? Assuming I'm T3, why are I not JUST fighting with/against other T3 pilots? Match me against pilots of equal tier... and once I've moved to the top of that tier, put me in a match with T2 pilots. If I succeed, then move me up into that Tier. If I do horrible, drop me back down into T3. Its the same principle for most online games with tier's or brackets.

To put into an example: In Starcraft, League of Legends, Dota, or any other game I can think of with a "tier" system, you don't have platinum, gold, and silver players in the same match. You're in silver, you play ONLY silver. Once you're ready to move up after proving yourself as a good player in that bracket then you fight a game in a higher tier. Only through succeeding there do you progress. Right now in MWO I feel as if this isn't anywhere the case. There doesn't seem to be that progression. No matter your tier, you're going to be fighting people above and below your bracket.

So I guess TL;DR, PSR might be fine, but the matchmaker needs some serious work. It always has, and it was neglected with PGI's new PSR re-work.


Long post with a short answer: there aren't enough people playing the game to have 5 fully segregated tiers.

#78 Sabazial

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 05:34 AM

View PostNextGame, on 14 September 2015 - 04:33 AM, said:

Long post with a short answer: there aren't enough people playing the game to have 5 fully segregated tiers.


Pretty much this, PSR would be more balanced if it had a wider selection of players to fill matches with.

#79 Speedy Plysitkos

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 05:37 AM

View PostSarlic, on 14 September 2015 - 04:26 AM, said:


Problem is idd as soon the team collapsed like a cardhouse you are most of the times practically wasting your time shooting outnumbered mechs. Or you do damage not to your liking and end up like you said 300 range.


50% pug life.

View PostNextGame, on 14 September 2015 - 04:33 AM, said:



Long post with a short answer: there aren't enough people playing the game to have 5 fully segregated tiers.


Steam release.

It could change things .... at least for a month. or two.

#80 Belazaar

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Posted 14 September 2015 - 05:38 AM

The problem isn't with PSR, matchmaking or balance. Now it could be just the tier I'm playing out, but most of the games I play are 4 to 12 or less with on 1 or 2 being 8 or 12 or better. Now maybe that is because PSR is at least putting similar skilled players together, then that support my theory that now that we don't have a hand few to carry a game we have to learn to play as a team better.

The problem is random drops, lack of team work and to many focus on their damage and kills.

Random drops means you don't have any coordination on roles. Like have to many snipers/LRMs that hang back so the teams doesn't push and will often split the team. When a support mechs are not in the line of file it allows the opforce to focus fire one the ones they can see. You get LRM with nobody to spot or scouts with narc/tag with no lrms.

It could be better if the solo que was turned into a faux group que. You still drop like you have in the past, but at the end of the game the same team goes to the next que. People can still drop out and will be replaced by other in the solo que. But voice would continue to work in between games so people can switch mechs or change tactics in between games. As long as we have random drops we will never have consistent competitive games. The difference between this and the group que is the PSR of this group will be closer.

Lack of Leadership
Very few veteran players step up to lead or when they do they are ignored or scorned for trying.

Need more training
Players not paying any attention to firing lanes and just focus on getting their kill or doing damage.

Very few talk about this and why everyone has complained about matchmaker and balance since beta.

It's not PGI, the players have to change. They gave us a leader map system and VOIP that was suppose to improve group play, it didn't.

It may be that the only people still playing are FPS type and they don't want to play as a team.

When I drop in solo Que I feel it is 12 individuals with a common enemy.

Team and leadership training would go a long way.

My 2 cents.





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