60 replies to this topic

[Warzog]

I have noticed, and heard other players notice, that on occasion one team or the other will cross the battlefield extremely fast.
Of the two specific ones that I can remember, Frozen City, and the Mining Collective, enemy LANCES, not simply a single light mech, were able to cross the battlefield in 15-20 seconds.

In the Frozen City, I dropped at about A3, and climbed the hill there, which took 20 seconds-I watched the timer, and was met by a Centurion a Shadow Cat, and an Adder. I saw what looked like 5 more mechs close behind them, but died so fast I couldn't I.D. them.
Using the testing grounds, and my 97.2 kph Adder, I was able to get to the same spot in one minute and thirty-five seconds. They shouldn't have been able to do it in 20 seconds.

In the Mining Collective, I dropped in the southwest corner during a conquest mission and took 20 seconds to get to the nearest resource on the west side. As I got there, a Shadow Cat, and a Storm Crow, along with another lance close behind, killed most of my lance.
Using the testing grounds, and my 97.2 kph Adder, it took me one minute and twenty-three seconds to make the run that they did in under 20 seconds.

I also recall a time when an opponent asked how we had crossed the Canyon Network map so fast, and cornered them near their base, my timer showed about a minute and a half had already passed.
I've gotten cornered there a couple of times, again, within 15-20 seconds of the drop.

I've kept an eye on the timer, trying to see if there was what seems to be a one minute delay in our drop, but I've seen nothing to indicate that with the timer.

The problem seems to have started after the Oceanic Servers were fixed, and the Oceanic Server Event restarted. Although, the problem is across all servers, and all modes.
As to the rate of occurrence, I'd say about once every five drops, but then again, since the Oceanic Servers were fixed, it takes me 1-3 minutes or more to get into a mission, no matter which class I pick.

EDIT:
Almost forgot... It's not from lag on my part, as my entire team is still near the drop zones when the other team's lances appear.

Edited by Warzog, 05 September 2015 - 05:29 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Warzog, on 05 September 2015 - 05:21 AM, said:

I have noticed, and heard other players notice, that on occasion one team or the other will cross the battlefield extremely fast.
Of the two specific ones that I can remember, Frozen City, and the Mining Collective, enemy LANCES, not simply a single light mech, were able to cross the battlefield in 15-20 seconds.

In the Frozen City, I dropped at about A3, and climbed the hill there, which took 20 seconds-I watched the timer, and was met by a Centurion a Shadow Cat, and an Adder. I saw what looked like 5 more mechs close behind them, but died so fast I couldn't I.D. them.
Using the testing grounds, and my 97.2 kph Adder, I was able to get to the same spot in one minute and thirty-five seconds. They shouldn't have been able to do it in 20 seconds.

In the Mining Collective, I dropped in the southwest corner during a conquest mission and took 20 seconds to get to the nearest resource on the west side. As I got there, a Shadow Cat, and a Storm Crow, along with another lance close behind, killed most of my lance.
Using the testing grounds, and my 97.2 kph Adder, it took me one minute and twenty-three seconds to make the run that they did in under 20 seconds.

I also recall a time when an opponent asked how we had crossed the Canyon Network map so fast, and cornered them near their base, my timer showed about a minute and a half had already passed.
I've gotten cornered there a couple of times, again, within 15-20 seconds of the drop.

I've kept an eye on the timer, trying to see if there was what seems to be a one minute delay in our drop, but I've seen nothing to indicate that with the timer.

The problem seems to have started after the Oceanic Servers were fixed, and the Oceanic Server Event restarted. Although, the problem is across all servers, and all modes.
As to the rate of occurrence, I'd say about once every five drops, but then again, since the Oceanic Servers were fixed, it takes me 1-3 minutes or more to get into a mission, no matter which class I pick.

EDIT:
Almost forgot... It's not from lag on my part, as my entire team is still near the drop zones when the other team's lances appear.

I'm guessing you're a new pilot. That's okay!

Here's a quick explanation for you:

The Centurion, Shadowcat, and Adder can all move 100+ kph when Speed Tweaked. Speed Tweak is an unlockable Pilot Skill in the Elite Skill Tree. Once you finishing Basic'ing your Mech, you need 8,500 XP to unlock this skill. Once unlocked, it multiples your top speed by 10% and then adds this value to your overall top speed. Case in point, let's say that your 97.2 Adder gets Speed Tweaked. 97.2*0.10=9.72. 97.2+9.72=106.92. Thus, your new top speed will be 106.92 kph.

In addition, there are multiple routes available to reach the same point. Perhaps they took a short cut. Perhaps some Mechs you're been seeing, like the Shadowcat, have jump jets and can go over terrain or structures instead of around them.

The bottomline, is that the Mechs aren't moving too fast; it sounds to me like you're striking out on your own in a slow, unleveled Mech. If you do that, it doesn't really matter how fast anyone's speed is; you're going to die. The best thing you can do, is to stay with your group.

Also note that in the case of the IS Mechs, boosting your speed comes at the cost of decreased firepower and increased fragility (Excel engine).

If you have any other questions about the game, feel free to message me!

Edit: Addendum: The Centurion can move 100+ kph depending on its engine. Case in point, I crammed an Excel 300 into my CN9-YLW which lets it move at 100+ kph. However, the Excel makes it fragile to the point where losing any single side torso will kill me just as it would if I lost the center torso.

Also, the Shadowcat, to my understanding, might not move 100+ kph with Speed Tweak, but that it definitely can with its special MASC ability. I don't own one, so I can't speak as authoritatively about it.

Edited by Nightmare1, 05 September 2015 - 06:40 AM.

[Coralld]

I know what your talking about OP, however, its not because the mechs are fast or because they are cheating or anything like that, its because there is an enemy spawn location on the other side that is waaaaaaaay to close.
I still remember being in my Jaguar, spawned on the same spawn location you were talking about on this map, climbed the hill in front, only took me 8 sec or so, and when I got up there, there was already an enemy Dire, Jaguar, Grasshopper, and Hunchback shooting at us from only 200m away or there abouts.

The Spawn locations you were dropped off at was the one in the top right hand corner of C6 and the enemy spawn location is in the left hand side of E8.

I hate Frozen City and can't wait for it to have a make over like Forest and River.

Edited by Coralld, 05 September 2015 - 08:06 AM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Map pace usually depends on how many Clanmechs are in the game, just about every one of them are at top speed for their weight class when compared to IS mechs.

Its also in large part to the re positioning of spawn locations on these older maps. The spawns used to be set far away from eachother and all in a clump, now its pretty much head on collision as soon as the game starts where at least two opposed lances are within 600-800 meters from eachother.

Frozen City spawns used to be B/C3 and OP was G4/5

[Mcgral18]

Your adder is likely 10% slower than his adder; they go 107Kph mastered.
Probably goes through a faster route with a better spawn too.

Use this to test spawns if you really want to.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...peaks&m=assault

[Sable]

I think you're forgetting that you crossing the zone going one direction isn't the same as two mechs move towards each other, you should really only be measuring how long it takes to cross half the zone to get an estimation of when you would encounter the enemy. And that would only be if you were to run smack into their mech, there's also the ranges you can begin firing where you wouldn't even be halfway across the map yet. So in in practice a rough estimate would be how long does it take you to cross 1/3rd of the zone to be in weapons range of another mech.

Kinda like those word problem in math. How long would 2 trains traveling at 2 different speeds take to meet each other and where would they meet... only this time those trains have armor, lasers, autocannons and LRMs and instead of wheels they have legs, and instead of meeting each other at a certain distance they begin firing at each other before they actually meet. So i'd say 20 seconds seems not far off any quick estimation. L2math

Edited by Sable, 05 September 2015 - 11:24 AM.

[Warzog]

A mech leaves point A and gets to point B in 20 seconds, another leaves from point C and gets to point B in 1 min 23 seconds. To the mech that left from point A, the mech from point C should arrive at point B ONE MINUTE later! NOT AT THE SAME TIME!
(That's using the Mining Collective Conquest drop as the example)
(Using my 142.5 kph Spider, it takes 43 seconds to do the point C to point B run. Which means my spider would have arrived at point B 23 seconds after my Adder did! I DARE anyone to tell me that a Shadow Cat or a Storm Crow can go faster than 142.5 kph! They'd have to have been doing the games max-with mastered bonus of 170+ kph. What Shadow Cat can put a bigger engine in it? What Storm Crow can do over 142 kph?)
And yes, I was looking at the timer, so I know it was 20 seconds. (I've been taking note of the timer whenever the enemy appears to arrive to fast.)

I used the ADDER as my reference mech for several reasons:
1) I'm MASTERING IT!!! Did you notice the "Little Helper" title I have? (Already mastered the Spider. Also working on Mastering the Artic Cheetah, the Shadow Cat, and the Timber Wolf.)
2) The aforementioned Centurion can only do 64.8 kph with the stock 11.5 ton standard 200 engine, with the 14 ton XL 275 engine (the largest it can take), it can only do 89.1 kph without being mastered.
3) It's about the average or above average speed for a company of mechs.

As to the BS that I struck out on my own....

Quote

as my entire team is still near the drop zones when the other team's lances appear.

WE DROPPED, AND 15-20 SECONDS LATER THE ENTIRE TEAM WAS ATTACKED!
I know the difference between running into the enemy lance, and all of a sudden they are next to my team's drop zones within 20 seconds of dropping!

AND... as a point of reference... Before I retired, I worked as a trouble shooter, looking for problems that most others don't notice, BEFORE they do notice them. I'm not some snot-nosed kid imagining things.

EDIT:
Sorry for the rant, but I wouldn't have even started the thread if any of the things you folks have pointed out were true.

Edited by Warzog, 05 September 2015 - 01:48 PM.

[Appogee]

Could you run some match recording software. It'd be interesting to see this happen, then consider potential explanations.

In any case, some of the spawn points are stupid. In some cases, Assaults spawn where they have to walk across clear terrain in front of two enemy lances.

[Davegt27]

op you will see a lot stranger things then fast moving mechs you just need to play more

so you might as well get used to it

[Trev Firestorm]

Different game modes have different spawn points, on skirmish on frozen city 2 of the lances start way too close to each other and worse one of them is downhill from the other with a chokepoint at/above them.

[Nightmare1]

Warzog, on 05 September 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

I) A mech leaves point A and gets to point B in 20 seconds, another leaves from point C and gets to point B in 1 min 23 seconds. To the mech that left from point A, the mech from point C should arrive at point B ONE MINUTE later! NOT AT THE SAME TIME!

II) I used the ADDER as my reference mech for several reasons:
1) I'm MASTERING IT!!! (Already mastered the Spider. Also working on Mastering the Artic Cheetah, the Shadow Cat, and the Timber Wolf.)
2) The aforementioned Centurion can only do 64.8 kph with the stock 11.5 ton standard 200 engine, with the 14 ton XL 275 engine (the largest it can take), it can only do 89.1 kph without being mastered.
3) It's about the average or above average speed for a company of mechs.

III) As to the BS that I struck out on my own.... WE DROPPED, AND 15-20 SECONDS LATER THE ENTIRE TEAM WAS ATTACKED!
I know the difference between running into the enemy lance, and all of a sudden they are next to my team's drop zones within 20 seconds of dropping!

I) You are assuming that point C is farther away from point B than point A. In reality, there are three spawn points for each team. One is generally close to the enemy, one far from the enemy, and one roughly half-way between them. In all likelihood, the Mechs you are citing were distributed between the near and half-way spawn points. They also likely had the speed necessary to reach point B rapidly.

Take deep breaths and calm down. No need to get frazzled over this.


II)
1) Nothing wrong with that as long as you realize that there are a lot of Mechs in the game that move much faster than it.

2) Actually, there are two Centurions that can stuff an engine larger than a 275 into their CTs. You are also making the mistake of assuming that the Mech is un-Elited. As I pointed out, I have a Centurion that can move in excess of 100 kph. Your flawed assumption invalidates your entire argument.

3) You're assuming that the entire enemy team moved together to that position in a group. What probably happened instead, is that about a half-dozen Mechs that were fast and/or spawned close to that position rushed it immediately. You got hit and killed so quick you didn't get a chance to count them and just assumed that all the red doritos you saw meant that the entirety of the team was present. I've made that mistake before myself. It's called "overestimating."

III) Your counter-argument doesn't actually address the "BS about striking out on your own." In fact, it doesn't serve any purpose at all. To be frank, getting attacked twenty seconds after dropping is not at all unusual.

Edited by Nightmare1, 05 September 2015 - 01:47 PM.

[Yellonet]

Why would they cross a battlefield to fast? Couldn't they just go around to do that? I mean they should go home to fast.
But really, do mechs even need to fast?

Edited by Yellonet, 05 September 2015 - 01:54 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Warzog, on 05 September 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

AND... as a point of reference... Before I retired, I worked as a trouble shooter, looking for problems that most others don't notice, BEFORE they do notice them. I'm not some snot-nosed kid imagining things.

Sorry for the rant, but I wouldn't have even started the thread if any of the things you folks have pointed out were true.

So...you're saying that we can't notice problems with the game? And that, as a trouble-shooter, you are uniquely qualified to do so? And that everyone who has replied to your thread is wrong?

Sounds like someone is delusional and I know it ain't me. If you say, "The sky is gray," and everyone else tells you that it's blue, then you may want to get your eyes checked. To put it another way, if enough people are telling you something that differs with your own predetermined notions, then it's possible that those notions may be wrong. Sorry to say, but getting attacked swiftly in MWO is neither a problem nor an uncommon occurrence. Centurions can move faster than 90 kph. You just got unlucky.

Yellonet, on 05 September 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

Why would the cross a battlefield to fast? Couldn't they just go around to do that? I mean they should go home to fast.
But really, do mechs even need to fast?

Speed is life. Speed is the essence of warfare. The faster and more aggressive and enemy, the better his chances of winning.

[Hotthedd]

Yellonet, on 05 September 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

Why would they cross a battlefield to fast? Couldn't they just go around to do that? I mean they should go home to fast.
But really, do mechs even need to fast?

Yes, apparently, if they have eaten too many Adders...

[Warzog]

Using your sky analogy... If everyone says the sky is blue, and I say a storm is coming, because I can see it on the horizon, doesn't make either of us wrong, it simply means I noticed something that you haven't, yet.

I never claimed anyone was wrong, I stated that what they were saying was not what I was noticing.

Edited by Warzog, 05 September 2015 - 03:06 PM.

[crustydog]

I have experienced exactly the same situation as the OP - many times.... but, it is an infrequent phenomenon.

What I am less certain of is this - it appears at times that the matches are not loading at exactly the same time for each of the players in the match. Sometimes I am the only lance member moving in my lance at the start - the others are still frozen, like they were discoed - but more likely it was just that their mechs have not loaded up yet. Sometimes this is very noticeable - and if one lance starts thirty seconds before another - well, a lot of terrain can be crossed by that first lance before the second lance even begins moving.

[Warzog]

I thought that too, but what seems weird to me about it is that the timer always starts at 15 minutes no matter what. I would think that it would be delayed too.

EDIT:
Unless... It only starts for the player when they have actually activated, but things go so fast I haven't noticed the timer leaping ahead to catch up with others, except when I die where I have noticed around a minute or so jump in the timer.

Edited by Warzog, 05 September 2015 - 03:22 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

crustydog, on 05 September 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

I have experienced exactly the same situation as the OP - many times.... but, it is an infrequent phenomenon.

What I am less certain of is this - it appears at times that the matches are not loading at exactly the same time for each of the players in the match. Sometimes I am the only lance member moving in my lance at the start - the others are still frozen, like they were discoed - but more likely it was just that their mechs have not loaded up yet. Sometimes this is very noticeable - and if one lance starts thirty seconds before another - well, a lot of terrain can be crossed by that first lance before the second lance even begins moving.

everybody is loaded at once unless you are horribly horribly lagging like 3 fps or so, in that case your pilot animation is skipped

but people often do something else and dont notice they were loaded for a while

[Mazzyplz]

how i enjoy to take that route near the enemy spawn;
gets the heart pounding.

if i play it safe 100% of the time why play mwo, a video game which is meant to be fun?

sometimes i get damaged and get away,
sometimes i kill one or two mechs from cover if my team doesn't nascar around leaving me alone
fewer times i never make it out of the ramp and my team rages.



i do the same thing in canyon network i take the stupid route on purpose, and when other mechs follow me they often die, i feel bad but i really haven't told em to come with or that it would be safe.


the funny part is most of the time i get damaged but manage to regroup still alive, my mech goes 67.8 kph (aws 300 rating) -

a lighter mech really, really shouldn't have a problem if you are moving across and laying supressing fire

maybe you should invest in jumpjets if you adder is too slow, it will make you climb the hill faster (or hill climb module)

dont forget to twist to spread the dmg if you are already there, obviously just running in a straight line will get you cored even if straight line is faster

ALSO dont forget there is 3 ramps to that side from jenner ally, 1 is the worst possible route, the second one is tougher to see but that's the one you take.
the other option is to go near your "base" and climb but that's a long way

try not to confuse the 2 similar forward ramps, one will kill you 50-75% of the time, the other is mostly safe

[bad arcade kitty]

Nightmare1, on 05 September 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

Also, the Shadowcat, to my understanding, might not move 100+ kph with Speed Tweak, but that it definitely can with its special MASC ability. I don't own one, so I can't speak as authoritatively about it.

same 106.9 kmh

Warzog, on 05 September 2015 - 05:21 AM, said:

In the Frozen City, I dropped at about A3, and climbed the hill there, which took 20 seconds-I watched the timer, and was met by a Centurion a Shadow Cat, and an Adder. I saw what looked like 5 more mechs close behind them, but died so fast I couldn't I.D. them.

i dunno... skirmish i suppose? it might be something like this, need more data

Quote

In the Mining Collective, I dropped in the southwest corner during a conquest mission and took 20 seconds to get to the nearest resource on the west side. As I got there, a Shadow Cat, and a Storm Crow, along with another lance close behind, killed most of my lance.

a possible scenario (was a pretty risky move on their part btw)



also you would better name the point because the minimap rotates and its west/east changes (they are not symmetrical too)

Quote

I also recall a time when an opponent asked how we had crossed the Canyon Network map so fast, and cornered them near their base, my timer showed about a minute and a half had already passed.

need more data... the canyon can be crossed pretty fast with jj/using bridges