97 replies to this topic

[aniviron]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 September 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Example HBK vs NVA,
NVA can have more Energy(12-14 to HBKs 9) and they are Clan Energy(Clan = Better),
so NVA is Automatically Better hands down, no way to debate it other wise,

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Elizander]

Given that PGI is seeking to reduce the options rather than expand it to maintain good wait times, I don't see this happening. At best, they can make it so that if the MM finds a full IS vs IS team with good PSR in the queue then it can go for it, otherwise I wouldn't count on it unless PGI wants us to have 15-20 minute queue times.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 September 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:

perhaps but people would just find the Best IS Mech,
(in this Case Best = Most Optimized in its Stock Form),
and will only use that and nothing else,

a Prime Example of how this is already happening?
NVA vs SCR, if both are Stock which do you take?

None of this are 3025 stock. But even then, in Stock Clan vs IS asymmetrical events I did good enough in nova.

As about Stock meta. Is not something that you used to think about in full custom. In Stock actually all meks are playable, offer different play experience and diversity. Game play is very different then in current public custom, far superior if you ask some.

SkyHammr, on 05 September 2015 - 05:22 PM, said:

I'd rather see Stock Mode be a thing.
Great for the new players- who are restricted to Trials or mechs w/o upgrade.
Great for the guys leveling new mechs that don't have the space bucks for the upgrades.
Might even reduce TTK since sub-optimal builds and everything runs so hot stock.

Would rather see that than IS Only Mode.

3025 Stock that most of Stock Fans want the most as it is the most classic and known by everybody period, those not have clans.
If you want to do Stock ISvClans you need to go to asymmetrical side of things. So can be more problematic. But yeah that can be balanced and extremely fun too.

[Mycrus]

Yellonet, on 05 September 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

I would really appreciate an IS only solo mode, just like the current solo mode, but without any clan mechs.

In my opinion it would make for a much more balanced and fun game if there were only IS mechs because IS mechs seem way more balanced relative to each other than compared to clan mechs.
As it is now the clans have the best mechs in every class (that is fact, not opinion), and while that may be as it should according to BT lore, it works very poorly in a game.
Sure, with mixed teams both teams will almost always have clan mechs, but most of the time, one of the teams have more of them, and that can often be the edge that tips the scale.

Furthermore, to me it's just no fun knowing that you're going up against other players that have much better mechs. Getting killed by a clanner as I've barely scratched his paint always makes me rage a bit because it just feels so unfair.
Yes yes I know, everyone can use clan mechs, but how fun would that be if nobody used IS mechs? IS mechs do seem to be the core of the game and clans to be the addition that has ruined the balance.

So please PGI, let me play a fair and balanced game without the clans.

hell no... I'm pure IS player... and mostly a light pilot at that...

bad pilots make bad games... not bad or op mechs....

[Livewyr]

Even with the overquirked redonkamechs...

The IS still complains. But hey, at least this thread is a bit more open and honest... "Clan mechs scare me, make them go away!"

Beware the boogeymech. (Where have you been on the Firestarter issue this whole time?)

[Andi Nagasia]

PGI makes a IS only Que,
Wait times for that Que are 30-45Minutes,
IS Only Enthusiasts Demand that the MM be fixed to lessen Wait times,
Russ Says- not Everyone wants to Play IS Vs IS, and they needs to select more options to speed things up,
IS Only Enthusiasts Demand that the MM Force People Using IS Mechs into the IS Only Que,
this is what would happen with an IS only Que,
can you handle this?

[Chados]

I think I'd be good if we could just get Clan tech like their lasers and LRMs and use them on IS mechs, like in MechCommander. That'd be the real game changer.

[Vlad Ward]

Oh boy.

He done said it now.

[Yellonet]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 September 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

PGI makes a IS only Que,
Wait times for that Que are 30-45Minutes,
IS Only Enthusiasts Demand that the MM be fixed to lessen Wait times,
Russ Says- not Everyone wants to Play IS Vs IS, and they needs to select more options to speed things up,
IS Only Enthusiasts Demand that the MM Force People Using IS Mechs into the IS Only Que,
this is what would happen with an IS only Que,
can you handle this?

LOL, slippery slope much?

[Yellonet]

Livewyr, on 05 September 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

Even with the overquirked redonkamechs...

The IS still complains. But hey, at least this thread is a bit more open and honest... "Clan mechs scare me, make them go away!"

Beware the boogeymech. (Where have you been on the Firestarter issue this whole time?)

Yes, even with overquirked mechs, they aren't as good as the clan mechs.
I want better balance, so shoot me.
I bet many clanners do not however as a lot of them surely chose clan because they have the better mechs.
Don't take my easy mode away!

[El Bandito]

Livewyr, on 05 September 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

Even with the overquirked redonkamechs...

The IS still complains. But hey, at least this thread is a bit more open and honest... "Clan mechs scare me, make them go away!"

Beware the boogeymech. (Where have you been on the Firestarter issue this whole time?)

Cause Clan tech is still better.

[Crixus316]

Yellonet, on 06 September 2015 - 02:38 AM, said:

Yes, even with overquirked mechs, they aren't as good as the clan mechs.
I want better balance, so shoot me.
I bet many clanners do not however as a lot of them surely chose clan because they have the better mechs.
Don't take my easy mode away!

This is why I hate solo pug land. Players like you. Instead of looking for ways to improve your skills, its remove (whatever kills me) to make the game more balanced.

[Yokaiko]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 05 September 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:

If you want to do Stock ISvClans you need to go to asymmetrical side of things. So can be more problematic. But yeah that can be balanced and extremely fun too.

That is what they should have done in the first place, let clan mechs be clan mechs, and just use the star/company model.

They never should have let them cross-pollinate, NOW we have omni-mechs that are dramatically less customizable than Battlemechs, clan weapons that should be feared being mechanically jacked (I'm looking at you UAC20/ER-PPC) er-large lasers being nearly useless on two chassis, and super quirked IS mechs (Thuds, Dragon-1N, Stalker-4N, FS9-A)

It goes on and on.

Yellonet, on 06 September 2015 - 02:38 AM, said:

Yes, even with overquirked mechs, they aren't as good as the clan mechs.
I want better balance, so shoot me.
I bet many clanners do not however as a lot of them surely chose clan because they have the better mechs.
Don't take my easy mode away!

I own 132 mechs currently, and for the most part prefer the IS mechs, the superquirked IS mechs out-perform the clan in many many ways, to the point that I refer to my TDR-5SS as the lawmower, it cuts through Timbers like blades of grass.

[Alan Davion]

Mr Bigglesworth, on 06 September 2015 - 05:05 AM, said:

This is why I hate solo pug land. Players like you. Instead of looking for ways to improve your skills, its remove (whatever kills me) to make the game more balanced.

Let's take it down a notch there pal. Go back and look at my earlier post and you'll see that it's actually a way to improve a players skill more than a "take away the scary OP clan mechs" button.

If you still don't believe me after reading my earlier post... Well then I pity you.

Yokaiko, on 06 September 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:

That is what they should have done in the first place, let clan mechs be clan mechs, and just use the star/company model.

They never should have let them cross-pollinate, NOW we have omni-mechs that are dramatically less customizable than Battlemechs, clan weapons that should be feared being mechanically jacked (I'm looking at you UAC20/ER-PPC) er-large lasers being nearly useless on two chassis, and super quirked IS mechs (Thuds, Dragon-1N, Stalker-4N, FS9-A)

It goes on and on.

I own 132 mechs currently, and for the most part prefer the IS mechs, the superquirked IS mechs out-perform the clan in many many ways, to the point that I refer to my TDR-5SS as the lawmower, it cuts through Timbers like blades of grass.

I wasn't around for the introduction of the clans, but from what I've heard from people that were there, PGI or IGP, I don't know which, apparently said that the 10v12 model was simply impossible to implement with the matchmaker system they use.

Apparently there was a test of this at some point and it completely broke the system, putting 12 on one side and 4 or 8 on the other side, not the required 10.

[Yokaiko]

Alan Davion, on 06 September 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

Let's take it down a notch there pal. Go back and look at my earlier post and you'll see that it's actually a way to improve a players skill more than a "take away the scary OP clan mechs" button.

If you still don't believe me after reading my earlier post... Well then I pity you.



I wasn't around for the introduction of the clans, but from what I've heard from people that were there, PGI or IGP, I don't know which, apparently said that the 10v12 model was simply impossible to implement with the matchmaker system they use.

Apparently there was a test of this at some point and it completely broke the system, putting 12 on one side and 4 or 8 on the other side, not the required 10.

I was there for that period, and they basically never tested it on the test server, they basically came in and said "its too hard"

However, I KNOW that they can pin the pub queues to be clan on one side and IS on the other, because that is where they tested clan vs IS "balance" at 1pm PDT, on a weekday, I just happend to be working evenings for one of them. This was right after the first wave of clan mechs was out, so on one side you had people grinding brand new Timbers, Whales and Crows, that were still cash only at the time

versus 2-3 guys in trials on the IS side.

Yeah, clans won a lot, since then PGI keeps giving us ELO projections that "are what they expect" but they have NEVER not once placed Clan vs IS mechs on opposite sides of the board in the pub queue since.

Edited by Yokaiko, 06 September 2015 - 07:04 AM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Maybe after steam launch gives PGI a larger playerbase. Currently they have to funnel players into game modes in order to get a good population. Which I like because of the tournament rewards involved.

[Yokaiko]

MechWarrior5152251, on 06 September 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

Maybe after steam launch gives PGI a larger playerbase. Currently they have to funnel players into game modes in order to get a good population. Which I like because of the tournament rewards involved.

How many do you think are going to stay?

Most of the steam gamers that I know hop games faster than a hamster on meth, and if you aren't a BT/MW fan, they are likely to take on look and run.

So for example I have somewhere north of 20,000 games under me, with a consistently positive win record, old stats, and solo since the reset since I basically only group for anymore for CW. My average pull without premium time is somewhere around 90k per game, granted I could ride the meta train and increase that a bit, but new players aren't going to know the meta, much less be able to afford it.

Case in point, last year I made a smurf to check out the new system, this is a rocking good time, artificially low elo and a trail FS9-S that wasn't horrible, I was averaging 500 points and two kills a game all the way through my cadet phase.

Made just short of 22mil.

So OK new player does that, assuming that they 1) read the forums 2) find smurfy or megamek and get a clue they are going to either blow that on an assault chassis (bigger is better yo!) so I went with Hunchbacks, and building a -4G and -4SP to my usual specification broke the bank, I have the -4P but its still incomplete, and those are standard engine builds.

Lights are a noob trap, my lights tend to be more expensive than my IS mediums and heavies because XL/endo/ferro all the things. Likewise the IS mediums all shoot to the 10-12 mil range when you start XL it, heavies are about the same, my most expensive mech is a wubshee, which weighed in at a whopping 19 million to build.

So to master ONE set of mech you are looking at 30 mil to build them right, hmm at under 100k a match that is three hundred matches, assuming you can squeak 6 matches an hour (maybe possible without opening all three servers) you are looking at 50 hours of playtime for A SINGLE SET OF THREE

....all while getting shitstomped because you still have to basic three variants to elite them.....so the odds of making that 100k average go down.

But wait? 6 mil for a set of weapon modules, 9-12 for mech modules, and don't even think about consumables, assuming similar builds, so if you use my hunchies, you need AC20 modules, SRM modules, and at least two full sets of mlass modules, total price 30 mil AGAIN.

But Yok, they can use clan mechs! Ok so the mighty Stormcrow, you can buy three and just move the build you want mech to mech. Yup, except that the chassis are now 11 mil a pop, and you STILL need 21-24 mil of mods.....not to mention that I can't imagine being stuck in one chassis with one build for 50 hours of playtime, that gets really really old, I know that I can't even stick with a chassis when I'm power grinding all three at once, once I elite I generally put them down and master by playing just enough to get that first win bonus and then back in the hangar.

Its a HUGE uphill slog new players, and you can't even take them under your wing, because there are sharks in the water in the group queue, and if they are having a hard time in the kiddie pool they DEFINITELY aren't going to like running into B33f and Twinky in the group queue.

[Yellonet]

Mr Bigglesworth, on 06 September 2015 - 05:05 AM, said:

This is why I hate solo pug land. Players like you. Instead of looking for ways to improve your skills, its remove (whatever kills me) to make the game more balanced.

[Yokaiko]

Yellonet, on 06 September 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

Dude has a point.

[1453 R]

What this thread actually means:

"Piranha, please remove Clan 'Mechs from the game. I don't really care that people have spent hundreds of dollars on them and that there's a ground-up rebalance coming - I don't like Clan 'Mechs and would like you to take them out of MWO. Thank you."

Odds of this happening: