46 replies to this topic

[Uncle Totty]

As I said this is a bit crazy, and I am sure many of you may rage at me for it. But please hear me out.

What if CW was stocks only?

*ducks under desk*

Now please calm down, and let me tell you why.

*sits back up*

Okay. Well first off it would be more welcoming to new players. Instead of them taking Trials while others are taking their custom builds, EVERYONE will have to pick from stock builds that are common to their chosen Faction. (In their faction's colors.) This would help even the playing field.

Since you would be picking mechs most common to your Faction, it will help make Factions stand out a bit more from each other and create some level of immersion.

To help with the Clan v IS balance, lets look more to how it was done in lore. Numbers. The IS would have the full drop deck and weight it has now. The Clans will have a drop deck of three and a reduced weight limit.

What do you think so far?

[MaxFool]

The balance would be horrible. All stock mechs have their faults, but some of those are almost playable and some are just a nightmare.

[Darwins Dog]

What MaxFool said. Most stock mechs are terrible in MWO. 1 ton of ammo for most ballistic weapons, 3/4 or less armor (looking at you Jagermech), CASE with XL engines, etc.

CW would only contain the few energy boats that come with DHS.

[Kmieciu]

Nathan K, on 09 September 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

As I said this is a bit crazy, and I am sure many of you may rage at me for it. But please hear me out.

What if CW was stocks only?

*ducks under desk*

Now please calm down, and let me tell you why.

*sits back up*

Okay. Well first off it would be more welcoming to new players. Instead of them taking Trials while others are taking their custom builds, EVERYONE will have to pick from stock builds that are common to their chosen Faction. (In their faction's colors.) This would help even the playing field.

Since you would be picking mechs most common to your Faction, it will help make Factions stand out a bit more from each other and create some level of immersion.

To help with the Clan v IS balance, lets look more to how it was done in lore. Numbers. The IS would have the full drop deck and weight it has now. The Clans will have a drop deck of three and a reduced weight limit.

What do you think so far?

Great idea! I think I'll just take 3 Stormcrow Primes

Edited by Kmieciu, 09 September 2015 - 07:45 AM.

[Jalthibuster]

I think CW is supposed to be the "End Game". If people can't tinker in the mech lab and bring their favorite builds, CW won't any longer be just the grave yard it is now but become a post nuclear war desert.

[Tarl Cabot]

Think of it this way. Stock IS mechs primarily piloted by militia/pirate hunting unit mechwarriors vs stock Clan mechs. No wonder the Clans rolled over the IS militia units at the beginning.

No thanks

[Dawnstealer]

Nathan K, on 09 September 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

As I said this is a bit crazy, and I am sure many of you may rage at me for it. But please hear me out.

What if CW was stocks only?

*ducks under desk*

Now please calm down, and let me tell you why.

*sits back up*

Okay. Well first off it would be more welcoming to new players. Instead of them taking Trials while others are taking their custom builds, EVERYONE will have to pick from stock builds that are common to their chosen Faction. (In their faction's colors.) This would help even the playing field.

Since you would be picking mechs most common to your Faction, it will help make Factions stand out a bit more from each other and create some level of immersion.

To help with the Clan v IS balance, lets look more to how it was done in lore. Numbers. The IS would have the full drop deck and weight it has now. The Clans will have a drop deck of three and a reduced weight limit.

What do you think so far?

Really, the only reason Clan vs IS worked in lore was because Stackpole was writing the novels. FASA couldn't figure out how to balance the Clans to IS and neither has anyone else since.

My vote, as I've stated in just about all of these "fix CW" threads, is this:

Make IS weapons do more damage, but drop off rapidly over range.

Make Clan weapons do less damage, but have longer range and more consistency.

So a Large Laser (for example) would do something like this:



More was here:

http://mwomercs.com/...iticism-for-cw/

[Armando]

Nathan K, on 09 September 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

As I said this is a bit crazy, and I am sure many of you may rage at me for it. But please hear me out.

What if CW was stocks only?

*ducks under desk*

Now please calm down, and let me tell you why.

*sits back up*

Okay. Well first off it would be more welcoming to new players. Instead of them taking Trials while others are taking their custom builds, EVERYONE will have to pick from stock builds that are common to their chosen Faction. (In their faction's colors.) This would help even the playing field.

Since you would be picking mechs most common to your Faction, it will help make Factions stand out a bit more from each other and create some level of immersion.

To help with the Clan v IS balance, lets look more to how it was done in lore. Numbers. The IS would have the full drop deck and weight it has now. The Clans will have a drop deck of three and a reduced weight limit.

What do you think so far?

Don't need PGI for that, it has already been done.....it was called 'Stock mech Monday', put on each week by the House of Lords before they became [EmP]. It was a great time for all the units that participated, but it fizzled out for some reason.

Edited by Armando, 09 September 2015 - 08:12 AM.

[Khereg]

Nathan K, on 09 September 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

As I said this is a bit crazy, and I am sure many of you may rage at me for it. But please hear me out.

What if CW was stocks only?

I won't rag you, but let's think this through a bit...

I think what you're trying to do is remove one of the factors that makes units more effective in CW than groups of pugs. If I'm wrong, you can ignore everything that follows.

So, basically, that's trying to level the playing field somewhat, but I don't think it would work as well as you think. It isn't builds that win matches (although they do help), but the teamwork and coordination, plus, frankly, the raw talent a lot of unit-based players bring to the matches.

I've been part of matches where we brought all trial builds to a CW drop for the lulz (those trials being built basically on stock concepts like you're describing) and we still won 48 to 20-ish in under 15 minutes against what should have been vastly superior builds.

The stomps in CW are the result of a number of factors, but the most significant one (IMHO) is simply differences in skill level of the players involved. This gets hidden in solo queue owing to the PSR matchmaking. You see it more in group queue, although the matchmaker does try to achieve parity, but often fails owing to lower population and the jigsaw puzzle of building groups of 12 from the available random group sizes looking for matches.

CW is the extreme: population so low a matchmaker isn't possible. You are seeing the rawest of raw disparities in skill level in the game combined with better mech builds and teamwork. Even if you put all the builds at the same level of suckage, the better players in coordinated groups are still going to roll through the vast majority of pugs.

Edited to add: I don't think a lot of people realize just how potent some of the top players in this game really are (no, I'm not one of them). If you put Proton in with a group of 11 AI-driven robots that wandered around the map shooting in random directions against a group of 12 truly random pugs from across MWO, I would put my money on Proton over 80% of the time. It's really that significant what that guy can do in a mech. Astounding, really.

Edited by Khereg, 09 September 2015 - 08:30 AM.

[AztecD]

CW needs logistics, if you bring your own pimped out mech to a planet, so be it, but if you are just jumping from one planet fight to another, you would use what the planet had in terms of mechs, hence a stock mech given that its not your own super chassis since you left it at home.

[Tasker]

Here's an idea, stop deleting all of the good posts. The only thing that kept IS vs IS CW going for months was the propagation of funny smack talk threads.

[Tasker]

Armando, on 09 September 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

Don't need PGI for that, it has already been done.....it was called 'Stock mech Monday', put on each week by the House of Lords before they became [EmP]. It was a great time for all the units that participated, but it fizzled out for some reason.

Anti-Cheat detection?

[Jaeger Gonzo]

This game actually just scream for a STOCK MODE.
But must of us want 3025 STOCK.
But anything Stock would be better then full custom madness.
3025 Stock was tested very well and we know that is very fun and balanced, far better then any Full Custom Public and the most important offer very different and unique game play. All of other mods is just variations of same sh/it, like assault and skirmish its basically same, not really worth to keep both buckets, but Stock Mode, this thing offer something really new, fresh and good.
3050 Stock Clan vs IS asymmetrical balanced was also tested, so we know know that one star vs two lances work and is very fun for both sides.

All noobs that say that Stock is unbalanced and have bad game play, just don`t know fu/ck what they talk about.

So yeah, I also think that actually Stock as nooby friendly hard core mode could be the only salvation for CW.
For now, CW is just a huge waist of resources. Its just failed project, I wonder if PGI stand good enough to burn more and more in this death CW like this. Introducing Stock Mode and it trying out would be really cheap. Its not that they need excessive coding or something. Just load damn different xml file.

[Dawnstealer]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 09 September 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

This game actually just scream for a STOCK MODE.
But must of us want 3025 STOCK.
But anything Stock would be better then full custom madness.
3025 Stock was tested very well and we know that is very fun and balanced, far better then any Full Custom Public and the most important offer very different and unique game play. All of other mods is just variations of same sh/it, like assault and skirmish its basically same, not really worth to keep both buckets, but Stock Mode, this thing offer something really new, fresh and good.
3050 Stock Clan vs IS asymmetrical balanced was also tested, so we know know that one star vs two lances work and is very fun for both sides.

All noobs that say that Stock is unbalanced and have bad game play, just don`t know fu/ck what they talk about.

So yeah, I also think that actually Stock as nooby friendly hard core mode could be the only salvation for CW.
For now, CW is just a huge waist of resources. Its just failed project, I wonder if PGI stand good enough to burn more and more in this death CW like this. Introducing Stock Mode and it trying out would be really cheap. Its not that they need excessive coding or something. Just load damn different xml file.

It would be fun to have this thing just be 3048 or '49. Play a few years of IS vs IS and really get the rivalries going. Then have the Clans invade. Clans could still drop in groups on the standard game modes, but CW would be IS until the timeline hit 3050.

[Uncle Totty]

Khereg, on 09 September 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

I won't rag you, but let's think this through a bit...

I think what you're trying to do is remove one of the factors that makes units more effective in CW than groups of pugs. If I'm wrong, you can ignore everything that follows.

So, basically, that's trying to level the playing field somewhat, but I don't think it would work as well as you think. It isn't builds that win matches (although they do help), but the teamwork and coordination, plus, frankly, the raw talent a lot of unit-based players bring to the matches.

I've been part of matches where we brought all trial builds to a CW drop for the lulz (those trials being built basically on stock concepts like you're describing) and we still won 48 to 20-ish in under 15 minutes against what should have been vastly superior builds.

The stomps in CW are the result of a number of factors, but the most significant one (IMHO) is simply differences in skill level of the players involved. This gets hidden in solo queue owing to the PSR matchmaking. You see it more in group queue, although the matchmaker does try to achieve parity, but often fails owing to lower population and the jigsaw puzzle of building groups of 12 from the available random group sizes looking for matches.

CW is the extreme: population so low a matchmaker isn't possible. You are seeing the rawest of raw disparities in skill level in the game combined with better mech builds and teamwork. Even if you put all the builds at the same level of suckage, the better players in coordinated groups are still going to roll through the vast majority of pugs.

Edited to add: I don't think a lot of people realize just how potent some of the top players in this game really are (no, I'm not one of them). If you put Proton in with a group of 11 AI-driven robots that wandered around the map shooting in random directions against a group of 12 truly random pugs from across MWO, I would put my money on Proton over 80% of the time. It's really that significant what that guy can do in a mech. Astounding, really.

That would be 1/3 of it, so you are not wrong.

Another 1/3 of it is trying for immersion, and to make the factions feel more unique by giving their pilots only what their faction most commonly used.

The last 1/3 is to lessen the grind newer players will have to go through. They would still need to grind time in the cockpit to know how to use their mechs, but not grind for C-Bills to buy and upgrade and Master the 4+ mechs they need to mix-and-match to not be too useless.

As for your edit: I would love to be one of those PUGs! That sounds truly fun! (Lets see how well I can herd the cats.)

[Kin3ticX]

Sometimes I feel like people suggesting stock mechs as a miraculous fix don't even know the stock configs and why they dont translate from TT to a shooter.

Obvious flaws


for example

pockets of not so terrible stock cfgs...ala. Stormcrow Prime

singles are terrible and hopeless in this game

what manages to have doubles often has a funky loadout

1 ton of ammo making energy even more attractive

wierd stock armor allocations that make no sense

Edited by Kin3ticX, 09 September 2015 - 01:41 PM.

[Khereg]

Nathan K, on 09 September 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

As for your edit: I would love to be one of those PUGs! That sounds truly fun! (Lets see how well I can herd the cats.)

You say that, but over the weekend I was in solo queue when I saw JagerXII (sp?) show up on the other side. I'm not great, but not a scrub either and I gave my team a heads up that he was the most dangerous player over there. We actually executed reasonably well. I pulled top damage at just over 700 and 3 kills, but we lost (something like 12-7). I never even SAW Jager the entire match and when the score screen popped up he had about 700 dmg and, I think 5 or 6 kills.

I've been killed by Proton on several occasions but never the opposite. I killed Twinky Overlord for the first time ever over the weekend and helped my team win the match. Screenshot moment. I'm telling you, some of these players are just on a different level altogether.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Kin3ticX, on 09 September 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

Sometimes I feel like people suggesting stock mechs as a miraculous fix don't even know the stock configs and why they dont translate from TT to a shooter.

The thing is that noob that don`t know what is talking about is you.
Thing was tested to the death countless times.
We played it and we know that Stock is far more balanced and fun. That turn this twitch shooter actually to "thinking man shooter" that is supposed to be since the beginning.


.

[Summon3r]

i would pay real money to play stock but not stock CW.... IS single heatsink mechs would get mauled

[Jaeger Gonzo]

IS single heat sinks belong to 3025 era.
vs clans you would not see many of this
And just believe IS v Clans 10v16 would be balanced in stock.

But yeah, I would bay like 3 times more mechs if that game would have damn Stock Mode of any kind.