220 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

Lightfoot, on 09 September 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

Yep, definitely huggy bear MechWarrior. Don't do anything to disturb the laser groove crowd like scary missiles or Battle Tech styled Gauss Rifles and keep those PPCs useless. Come on PGI give us Battle Tech's MechWarrior and let the pieces fall where they fall. They will learn to play a multi-tactic MechWarrior game and love it.

Yeah well everything else go nerfed.
We had scary missiles, both SRM and LRM
We had nice PPCs
We had AC20s without ghostheat
We had guass with no charge

All too good for the whiners, its quite literally why we can't have nice things.

[MischiefSC]

Yokaiko, on 09 September 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

Yeah well everything else go nerfed.
We had scary missiles, both SRM and LRM
We had nice PPCs
We had AC20s without ghostheat
We had guass with no charge

All too good for the whiners, its quite literally why we can't have nice things.

We had bad hitreg and lag shields, they mostly took that away too. Boy, it's getting hard to keep a broken unbalanced mechanic around here.

Edited by MischiefSC, 09 September 2015 - 04:37 PM.

[Yokaiko]

MischiefSC, on 09 September 2015 - 04:37 PM, said:

We had bad hitreg and lag shields, they mostly took that away too. Boy, it's getting hard to keep a broken unbalanced mechanic around here.

Popular doesn't mean broken.

If hit reg was so terrible why was it that Gausscats were so reviled? Remember that?
SRMs were actually broken, but that was fixed and THEN nerfed again.

So you reap what you sew, everything nerfed into a lower state and NOW everyone whines about lasers, so HEY nerf those to, NOW LASERS AND GUASS TO STRONK!!11!!!

So even if they nerf lasers, someone will come up with something that works and then we will scream NERF NERF NERF so more.

[MischiefSC]

So you forgot cuac buffs, the lrm buffs after the nerfs, the laser buffs, PPC speed buff back a bit ago, etc. Plus adder flamer unlock and the jjs rebuff, is along list.

Balance is a moving target and PGI tends to approach it with explosives not a scalpel sometimes but it goes both ways.

So when you buff things you reduce ttk, nerfs increase ttk. Currently we are moving toward a longer ttk, that's not a bad thing. Trying to portray this as 'whining' is disingenuous. Games need balanced back and forth, especially new content.

[Mcgral18]

An idea occurred to me for isSSRM2s...what if they reverted to CT only?

Significantly more useful...but 2 or 2.5 damage for that? The difference between 20 and 25 damage, every recycle for 5 racks.

[Yokaiko]

CUAC didn't go close to far enough, PPCs are still meh


TTK is always going to be close as long as I can put 5-9 lasers on one spot.

Mcgral18, on 09 September 2015 - 05:12 PM, said:

An idea occurred to me for isSSRM2s...what if they reverted to CT only?

Significantly more useful...but 2 or 2.5 damage for that? The difference between 20 and 25 damage, every recycle for 5 racks.

Too stronk.

Would help the IS a bit, but that would leave CSSRM is a kind of rediculous place, there would be no reason to use a 4 or a 6, just on odds of damage being useful.

[Sable]

LRMs don't need a buff, ECM needs a nerf. it's really that simple.

[Funkin Disher]

1 Missile spread sucks
2 Missiles are slow
3 Missiles don't benefit from 2x range, they just detonate harmlessly instead of say losing guidance or dropping into the ground
4 SRMs suffer bad hitreg
5 Missile locks are negated too effectively by ECM and Target Dep, requiring taxes to overcome.

They don't need a damage buff, they need help delivering their damage effectively.

Also, bring back the beautiful twirling SRMs.

Edit: If you want IS and Clan SRMs to be differentiated, put in the same staggered fire mode their LRMs and ACs have, firing in pairs with a short delay (somewhere between 0.1 and 0.05 sec).

Edited by Funkin Disher, 09 September 2015 - 05:24 PM.

[MischiefSC]

PPCs are a niche weapon so they don't become op again. A better fix, like making them a little dot or the like is probably more than we can hope for.

Cuacs are good in a lot of ways, I'd say buff projectile speed a bit. That will inherently buff grouping too. The problem right now is that cermls are still the best overall weapon in game. You don't want to bring everything up that high or you shorten ttk. I'd agree with Khobai that clan lasers could stand a dial back and I'd say that needs stacked with a good clan ac dial up. Maybe something heavy for Clan lbx? Velocity or spread reduction?

Cut is and Clan lbx spread by 30% and increase velocity by 20%. They are already light and cool. Clans have a huge spread of weapons but light weight, boatable lasers with great range and damage makes them inferior. I'd run cuacs or even clbx on an is mech in a moment. The lasers are just better....

so nerf one, buff the other. Ttk balanced, more and better build options.

Edited by MischiefSC, 09 September 2015 - 05:35 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Forcing clans into ACs with the current state of IS quirks would swing the balance so far toward the IS as to be laughable.

Clan UACs aren't "pretty good" they are too heavy for a lot of mechs, UACs ghost heat themselves, and and LBXs have ALWAYS been garbage, this isn't going to change.

[MischiefSC]

So you're opinion is to write clan acs all of and just have all clans laserboat or go home?

[Yokaiko]

MischiefSC, on 09 September 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

So you're opinion is to write clan acs all of and just have all clans laserboat or go home?

Unless something changes drastically mechanically yes, clans laser vommit because that is what we have.

SRMs for all the crying about being half weight to less damage, generate more heat, have higher spread AND ghost at three launchers. They significantly under perform IS SRMs, particularly when you compare them to mechs like GRF-2N, Huggin, or HBK-4SP with its 13dps ASRM6, less missiles hit for less damage and more heat.

Hellbringer, Timber and Crow are at best meh with UAC builds, Summoner even with PPC and guass is out performed by Cataphact already, Ballistic Warhawk? Yeah ever try that? Gargles, with its whopping 21 tons of pod space, can't carry enough ammo for a game with its prime config, one ton per weapons, with a backup Slas, and no way to free more space around that 375

Again,

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Jman5, on 09 September 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Something seems off with SRMs and LBX. I see them hit a mech smack dab in the middle with a full barrage, but the damage does not seem to correlate with what my eyes see.

I admit I have no proof, but it just doesn't seem right. I wonder if the visual impacts are not where the missiles are actually going. Let's just say I will not be surprised in the least if some time down the line a bug is discovered with these two spread weapons. Either with hit registration or a visual bug.

For a while before the Buckton fix, I had my SRMs macro'd where I'd put launchers from 2-6 depending on how many I had and when I fired group 2 it would fire all my SRMs in a chainfire with 0.25 seconds between them.

It would spread the damage out, but each volley would register it's damage. Before then it was nearly a 1:10 chance that salvo of 36 SRMs would hit ut not register the damage.

I would actually keep records of it. I'd watch my recordings and notice nearly all 400 missiles fired would hit, but the score screen would show only ~200 damage.

After the macro, I'd watch my recordings and I'd fire half as many SRMs for nearly double the damage.

I wish I still had that macro to test, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's method was still valid since I get better damage from the pair of SRM4s on my JR7-D than I do the four SRM4s on the GRF-2N.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Yokaiko, on 09 September 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

SRMs for all the crying about being half weight to less damage, generate more heat, have higher spread AND ghost at three launchers. They significantly under perform IS SRMs, particularly when you compare them to mechs like GRF-2N, Huggin, or HBK-4SP with its 13dps ASRM6, less missiles hit for less damage and more heat.

Now you're just being stupid...

SCR w/4 SRM4s
-32 damage
-12.9 heat
-3s cooldown
-4 slots
-4 tons
-10.68 DPS

GRF-3M
-34.4 damage
-12.9 heat
-2.7s cooldown
-4 slots
-8 tons
-12.74 DPS

The IS has to yet again dedicate twice the tonnage for an additional 2.4 damage and 2.07 DPS.

[TygerLily]

I think UAV's should be indestructible but last half the time. That's my idea for an LRM buff.

[Yokaiko]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 09 September 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

Now you're just being stupid...

SCR w/4 SRM4s
-32 damage
-12.9 heat
-3s cooldown
-4 slots
-4 tons
-10.68 DPS

GRF-3M
-34.4 damage
-12.9 heat
-2.7s cooldown
-4 slots
-8 tons
-12.74 DPS

The IS has to yet again dedicate twice the tonnage for an additional 2.4 damage and 2.07 DPS.

Incorrect, its 16 heat for the C/srm4s they are 4 hear per launcher.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Yokaiko, on 09 September 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

Incorrect, its 16 heat for the C/srm4s they are 4 hear per launcher.

Smurf says 3, bruh.

[oldradagast]

Yokaiko, on 09 September 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

Popular doesn't mean broken.

If hit reg was so terrible why was it that Gausscats were so reviled? Remember that?
SRMs were actually broken, but that was fixed and THEN nerfed again.

So you reap what you sew, everything nerfed into a lower state and NOW everyone whines about lasers, so HEY nerf those to, NOW LASERS AND GUASS TO STRONK!!11!!!

So even if they nerf lasers, someone will come up with something that works and then we will scream NERF NERF NERF so more.

Do not confuse rightful complaining about idiocy like 4 to 6 PPC Stalkers or AC 40 / dual Gauss Jagers with the lousy solutions implemented by PGI. Nobody here actually likes ghost heat, crummy and buggy PPC's, or any of the other half-baked "solutions" presented by PGI. Save your venom for them, since they can't seem to actually fix the pinpoint damage issue in the game; instead, they just shuffle it around from one weapon being "best" to another.

Also, I would hardly say "everything is in a lower state" - take a look at the changes implemented that have reduced time to kill:
- 12 vs. 12 instead of 8 vs. 8
- Clan mechs
- Quirks
- DPS increasing weapon modules with no cost other than money

Heck, based on TTK alone, the weapons are actually in a "higher" and less nerfed state than before... and yet the game is still stagnating because of the pinpoint damage issue.

Edited by oldradagast, 09 September 2015 - 06:21 PM.

[Yokaiko]

oldradagast, on 09 September 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

Do not confuse rightful complaining about idiocy like 4 to 6 PPC Stalkers or AC 40 / dual Gauss Jagers with the lousy solutions implemented by PG

AC40 Jagers are a problem when you have 7 MPL Thunderbolts, and 6 LLAS Stalkers running around?

[MischiefSC]

Yokaiko, on 09 September 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

AC40 Jagers are a problem when you have 7 MPL Thunderbolts, and 6 LLAS Stalkers running around?

Without ghost heat? Absolutely. That thing ran so cold you couldn't overheat it if you wanted to. It would crush the face off the current Thudder and Stalker metas, same as it crushed the face off everything else. I know, I ran the bjesus out of them before ghost heat. Both AC20s were the same heat as 3 medium lasers. WIth a 4 second cooldown it was a beast. So Ghost Heat. Not an ideal solution but, meh. 2ac20s 2MLs was more damage than a thudder at the same range for 50% less heat. The THudder gets maybe 3 alphas with a bit of a pause and then he's heatcapped. The pre-ghost heat boomjag could keep puking 50 pt alphas on him until it runs out of ammo.

So buff CACs. SRMs are pretty balanced. Clan SRMs can be boated *in addition* to other weapons because of their low weight and clan built in CASE and CXL means the ammo explosion risk isn't there. A XL griffin is no match in any way shape or form for an SRM Scrow. The scrow pops a torso off the griffin and it's over.

So make CUACs not ghost heat themselves (never had this happen and I run CUACs in 5s or 10s on Dires and Timber Wolves) and do something nifty with LBX, then nerf lasers. Do all this after we see what the rebalance looks like.