431 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Yokaiko, on 12 September 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

Since when do you ever decelerate with a mech that goes 171kph, you stay on the gas or get blapped like always.

To make better turns, you need to hit the breaks (or run with throttle decay).

[Mcgral18]

Deathlike, on 12 September 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

To make better turns, you need to hit the breaks (or run with throttle decay).

Actually, I noticed a different feeling on the PTS.


Did that fix that bug? Even with Throttle Decay, it took time to decelerate.
Although, maybe that was the Nega-Quirks.

[mike29tw]

Saxie, on 12 September 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

The 3rd person thing was blown out of proportion. People jumped to conclusions and immediately imagined MW4 when they heard about it.

I agree. I'm pretty indifferent about 3PV, but PGI's announcement that 3PV is a success because it "improve player retention to two weeks" is pretty hilarious though.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 12 September 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

Actually, I noticed a different feeling on the PTS.


Did that fix that bug? Even with Throttle Decay, it took time to decelerate.
Although, maybe that was the Nega-Quirks.

I couldn't tell you. I found quirks on the Gargles to increase the Accel/Decel and they drive much nicer with them.

I don't use Throttle Decay (and I expect little on the front to be fixed).

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 12 September 2015 - 09:10 PM, said:

To make better turns, you need to hit the breaks (or run with throttle decay).

I just ping my JJs to turn.

[Deathlike]

Mystere, on 12 September 2015 - 09:43 PM, said:

I just ping my JJs to turn.

If only all mechs could run them... poor Lolcust...

[DaZur]

Davers, on 12 September 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

Except that this was supposed to roll out to the live servers in 10 days (originally). So they figured one more patch to adjust some things and it's good to go. This is a fully released game. We can't just keep giving them passes like we were still in Beta.

Like many things in life... Best intent rarely manifests perfectly.

I'm aware of their original time-table but even through all PGI's foibles the'd be right daft to not take a step back and reassess... Like I said, so long as they weigh our opinions on this before implementation and keep us looped on the test-server, I'm not diving under a table for fear of falling sky.

The reality is Davers no matter what PGI does it's going to disenfranchise some segment of the community... The Best PGI can do is minimize the fallout by trying to accommodate as many segments of the community as possible. There just will be some attrition when making such a sweeping change.

[Davers]

DaZur, on 12 September 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

Like many things in life... Best intent rarely manifests perfectly.

I'm aware of their original time-table but even through all PGI's foibles the'd be right daft to not take a step back and reassess... Like I said, so long as they weigh our opinions on this before implementation and keep us looped on the test-server, I'm not diving under a table for fear of falling sky.

The reality is Davers no matter what PGI does it's going to disenfranchise some segment of the community... The Best PGI can do is minimize the fallout by trying to accommodate as many segments of the community as possible. There just will be some attrition when making such a sweeping change.

It would help if I felt there were several steps forward before having to backpedal a little. As someone else pointed out, this is returning balance back to 2013 original Clan launch. I mean, the Hunchback 4G lost every weapon quirk as well as 18 points of armour on it's RT. So it's back to being a mech that loses the majority of it's firepower very fast to incoming enemy fire without being able to return much fire. The very reasons it was considered a low tier mech and got good buffs in the first place....and the Hunchbacks were generally considered examples of 'quirks done right'.

Plus making all mechs untargetable for several seconds every time you lose line of sight on them is going to make this game MUCH more difficult for new players. Not to mention that this mechanic is just bad- it's another LRM story- a system that punishes new players, but doesn't effect veterans very much. Good mechanics reward experienced players for understanding them and utilizing them better than their opponent, not 'the better you are the more you forget it's there'.

I do like the ideas behind it, but the gameplay just doesn't reward info warfare as much as firepower. They shouldn't even be on the same chart. It's like PGI doesn't realize these changes ENFORCE the meta, when they were acting like it would shake it up. It's like they really don't know how their own game works, and after coming on 4 years, this is pretty alarming for the game's future.

[spectralthundr]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 08:16 PM, said:

I wish Vassago Rain and Roland were here to see this. It would be so glorious to watch them drop truthbombs on PGI and anyone else who still doubts how borked it is...

Oh trust me Vass is still around, in fact I saw him in a Mauler last night. Yes for one of the kings of the island he's still spending money and playing. Hypocrite doesn't even begin to describe it.

[Deathlike]

spectralthundr, on 12 September 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

Oh trust me Vass is still around, in fact I saw him in a Mauler last night. Yes for one of the kings of the island he's still spending money and playing. Hypocrite doesn't even begin to describe it.

Pics or it didn't happen.



I'm not skeptical, but I'm sure it was perfect timing for him considering what happened with the PTS.

[xe N on]

IMHO it is not the quirks on the PTS that are wrong, because as stated the balancing is not finished yet.

It is the very unprofessional handling of the whole balance test by PGI. They should have never given open access for a balancing at this stage. You can clearly see there was even no quality management pass, otherwise very obvious errors like -3500% turn rate wouldn't exist.

The outscream of the community was so much forseeable at this stage of the balance overhaul that I really cannot understand how PGI couldn't see that coming. Now everyone is on temper and the stance against these balance changes is totally toxic. This could have simply avoided by not releasing the current state to public but to a small group of beta testers with NDA.

Edited by xe N on, 12 September 2015 - 10:46 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

you can't take people with underpowered mechs, and say here's a rebalance coming in 2 weeks so we feel good about this and let them find out you nerfed their mechs and have them get annihilated by already good, newer mechs and hero mechs... trololol?

vitriol ensues. it was your own hand that dealt it.

Edited by Mazzyplz, 12 September 2015 - 10:51 PM.

[DaZur]

Davers, on 12 September 2015 - 10:14 PM, said:

I have zero issue with your concerns or your conclusions... That said, IMHO quirks got out of hand as well. Remember... quirks were intended to mitigate a particular mechs shortfalls and intensify its upsides so that it may achieve some semblance of parity with the highest tiered mechs.

Problem is that best intention manifested in an expectation that every mech old and more egregious had to have "some" quirk which then turned into the great qurkening of 2015.

PGI needs to completely do a ground up re-work and stop applying bandaids to mask underlying fissures that were there since beta. That said and it bares repeating, no matter what PGI does is going to piss someone off...

Edited by DaZur, 12 September 2015 - 11:02 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

DaZur, on 12 September 2015 - 11:01 PM, said:

I have zero issue with your concerns or your conclusions... That said, IMHO quirks got out of hand as well. Remember... quirks were intended to mitigate a particular mechs shortfalls and intensify its upsides so that it may achieve some semblance of parity with the highest tiered mechs.

Problem is that best intention manifested in an expectation that every mech old and more egregious had to have "some" quirk which then turned into the great qurkening of 2015.

PGI needs to completely do a ground up re-work and stop applying bandaids to mask underlying fissures that were there since beta. That said and it bares repeating, no matter what PGI does is going to piss someone off...

i think you are remembering the incident wrong;

they said they would introduce quirks that made certain bad mechs better; i think the awesome was the first to get some mediocre structure quirks; then instead of continuing along those lines; what they did was to make the thunderbolt an erppc machinegun. and the dragon have 50% ac5 cooldown nice logical step2 guys! very nice;
that didn't get out of hand IMMEDIATELY.
and it was not only the idea that old mechs had to have quirks; no - pgi got greedier than isildur -
and they made the quirks part of the sales pitch for new mechs.

this is what happened. who can you blame but the devs themselves; it's not like the forum base has the source code bro.

once they had gone off the deep end with the erppc tdr debacle, they felt the need to further escalate it by making the stk a range monster, and things got worse and worse. but again i ask who had the tool, the usage is what was rotten

and it's not like we didn't see the quirks going insane as it happened; many a picture of piccard facepalming was posted

[Davers]

DaZur, on 12 September 2015 - 11:01 PM, said:

I have zero issue with your concerns or your conclusions... That said, IMHO quirks got out of hand as well. Remember... quirks were intended to mitigate a particular mechs shortfalls and intensify its upsides so that it may achieve some semblance of parity with the highest tiered mechs.

Problem is that best intention manifested in an expectation that every mech old and more egregious had to have "some" quirk which then turned into the great qurkening of 2015.

PGI needs to completely do a ground up re-work and stop applying bandaids to mask underlying fissures that were there since beta. That said and it bares repeating, no matter what PGI does is going to piss someone off...

Of course the quirks got out of hand. Pretty much right after the initial quirks were released in fact. Every single mech had quirks- which were something that were supposed to help out underperforming chassis. The very posterboy of quirks, the Awesome, ended up just as unused as it was pre-quirk.

The problem with MWO is all the "real solutions" are considered worse than the band-****. Remove pinpoint convergence? Half the players will quit. Remove mechlab in favor of stock builds (or significantly reduce customization)? Well building mechs is a huge point of enjoyment for people.

So we keep trying to balance weapons, never knowing if a mech will carry one of them or 12 and point and click easily boated weapons like lasers end up far superior to heavier and more difficult to use ACs and PPCs.

[Mazzyplz]

they could have defused the situation then and there when they made the mistake of giving the TDR endless erppc streams.
they could have undone that. easy. get quirks back on track.

and people in forums were complaining, and what did they do?? they systematically buffed more and more mechs and people in the forums were going NOO NOO STOP!

and what did they do? they went on right ahead! and quirked more. this is all probably cache'd somewhere, i am not making this up - i could not even make this up if i tried

Edited by Mazzyplz, 12 September 2015 - 11:19 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Mcgral18, on 12 September 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

Actually, I noticed a different feeling on the PTS.


Did that fix that bug? Even with Throttle Decay, it took time to decelerate.
Although, maybe that was the Nega-Quirks.

Yeah it had a 20 or 30% decell quirk.

I just bounced it off of buildings to change direction, go go Rive City.

[Clay Pigeon]

So do the ECM changes in the PTS still have guardian ECM working like angel ECM, but at half the weight (and 10 years too soon)?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Yokaiko, on 12 September 2015 - 08:10 PM, said:

Ironically that is exactly how it played on PTS.

If I'm a Death Knell and can't lock an assault that I'm hitting with mlas... Yes, that happened.

Youre not supposed to be able to lock. that may allow the dirty lrm players to be able to play.

more funny is that is was coming out on the 22 till recently. exactly like it is on the PTS, so um... spot on perfect

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 13 September 2015 - 07:44 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

DaZur, on 12 September 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

I'm aware of their original time-table but even through all PGI's foibles the'd be right daft to not take a step back and reassess... Like I said, so long as they weigh our opinions on this before implementation and keep us looped on the test-server, I'm not diving under a table for fear of falling sky.

UI 2.0 testing phase. The exact opposite of what you hope is what happened.